Marketing a hangover cure?

[Deleted member 130603]

My friend has designed a food supplement which considerably mitigates the magnitude of the typical hangover. I have tried it (a couple of bottles of red wine and I was right as rain the next morning, I headed off to the gym no problem) and it works. The product has legs, no problem there; he's giving out free single sachet samples and the testimonials are all coming back positive.

The problem is how to market a product which has always been seen as a gimmick? Also, he needs to avoid being accused of encouraging/promoting irresponsible drinking. I believe this kind of marketing - introducing a new product or concept - is what is called by marketing experts, 'educating the market' and is one of the most difficult things to do.

My ideas are: offering the first sachet free via the website and having an introductory offer like the first ten half price or something.

I was also wondering how realistic it would be to approach chains like Weatherspoons who could perhaps vend them in machines similar to the way they do with condoms? Here, the problem is that they may be concerned about their corporate image and not want to be seen to be encouraging irresponsible drinking.

Any ideas and/or suggestions welcome, thanks.

 

[Ashley_Price]

I would think in the first instance it would probably need to go in for more scientific testing than someone drinking "a couple of bottles of red wine" - I can drink that amount without any affect the next morning without the aid of supplements.

Before being able to make any such claiming it needs to be tested. For example, you won't be able to call it a "cure". If you notice none of the medicines say they "cure" headaches, coughs, etc., because that leaves them open to criticism if someone ever gets a headache or cough again. Listen or read carefully the ads and you'll see they say "relief from..."

 

[Liamh121]

This sounds amazing! I'm guessing you could possibly try with the student high-novelty, low-risk market. Once they experience the product and discover that it does, in fact work - it'll take off through word-of-mouth recommendation and repeat purchase. You first need to start focusing on building up some brand equity for yourselves. There's loads you could do but sadly only so much I can tell you for free but you may find huge value in social media, freshers and some good old fashioned PR. Let me know if you need more information.

Good luck! If you co-ordinate this right, you could be onto something huge.

Liam

 

[Deleted member 130603]

Ashley, you would suggest a 'proper' scientific study be carried out to substantiate the products claims? That sounds perfectly reasonable, but you don't think that offering a free sachet followed by a money back guarantee on the next order is a good way to encourage people to try the product?

Another problem is that hangovers and combating them seem to be pretty subjective; some people get worse hangovers than others and are affected differently by different drinks. A study would be just as open to criticism since it could be carried out in so many different ways, this is why the free sample, 'try it for yourself for free' approach has been taken.

 

[Ashley_Price]

Ashley, you would suggest a 'proper' scientific study be carried out to substantiate the products claims? That sounds perfectly reasonable, but you don't think that offering a free sachet followed by a money back guarantee on the next order is a good way to encourage people to try the product?

I wouldn't touch anything that supposedly makes changes to my body's metabolism in some way, without it being backed up by medical research.

See THIS ARTICLE about a hangover cure in America. It had to be passed by the Food and Drug Administration Agency before it could go on sale.

Alcohol dehydrates you, so after an evening's drinking, it is usually good to have a couple of pints of water before going to bed. This alone can help mitigate the effects of a hangover. You can see a lot of great tips for fighting a hangover on the Drink Aware website: HERE

 

[ITsoldUK]

Agree with Ashley here.

Independent testing and credentials are vital for something of this ilk if you want to be taken seriously.

 

[Deleted member 130603]

Thanks guys. I know he had to have it approved by a regulatory body, let me find out exactly which ones and I'll get back ASAP. I should have had all of that information ready.

I also didn't consider that (although it seems obvious now) any medical credibility will need to be directly linked to the marketing. As I mentioned earlier I am not a marketing savant so I'm requesting - and am grateful for - any and all feedback I get here.

 

[Progress Through Science]

I wouldn't touch anything that supposedly makes changes to my body's metabolism in some way, without it being backed up by medical research.

Hi Ashley.

I am that friend, who developed the product. Thanks for replying to the thread, however please don't think me rude if I point out the paradox in your statement above.

You (I assume from your previous reply) drink alcohol, a toxin that has been shown conclusively to be extremely negative to health (leaving aside the purported benefits of moderate red wine intake, which is only 'good' because of the compound resveratrol, which can easily be sourced in concentrated pill form) as backed up by medical research.

So you are happy to drink a metabolic affector which has been shown to be highly toxic and addictive, yet you baulk at taking a nutritional supplement which is (by law) comprised only of compounds deemed to be very safe by the official regulatory government bodies?

I'm sure you see the irony

That aside, yes you are correct in that alcohol causes dehydration and that re-hydrating before bed can offer a degree of mitigation of the hangover effect.

But my product is unique in that it temporarily blocks the non-oxidative pathway in the liver that breaks alcohol down into more toxic metabolites, whilst simultaneously facilitating the oxidative pathway that 'burns' off alcohol with very little ill effect.

So my product:

A) prevents formation of toxic byproducts of alcohol metabolism
B) Actually lowers peak blood alcohol levels (BAL)
C) Causes a faster return to baseline (zero) of BAL

Unfortunately, due to UK legislation, I cannot make any of those claims in my marketing, because they are deemed as 'medical type claims' and the MHRA (medicines and health regulatory authority) will have none of that.

And in a way I totally agree with them. After all, the gullible must be protected from the unscrupulous. However when your product genuinely is effective, safe and beneficial to health, yet you cannot tell the world at large (unless you want to pay the HUGE costs associate with medical testing and approval), it can be frustrating.

Actually, I would be MORE than happy to send a free sample to anyone reading this, to try out for themselves.

It really is remarkably effective for most (85% or more I would say so far) users. The latest feedback was from the guy who fixed my garage roof last week. He rang up 3 days later to ask if he could purchase 4 x 20 dose pouches, because he found it so effective (11 pints on the night, followed by an exceptionally productive day, instead of the usual 'couchlock' scenario) and so did his crew.

Anyway, for anyone wanting a free sample, just PM me. I assume that is within the rules here...?

Alex

 

[Anonymouse72]

i tried some of these tablets years ago, they worked but the more you took them as you drank, the less drunk you felt, so not quite the desired effect i was after!

there are loads of hangover cures online, can their websites give you any pointers?

good luck by the way

 

[garyk]

As regards marketing perhaps you need to go where your target market are? i.e. hang around outside bars and clubs on a weds/thurs/friday sat. night giving out free sachets after midnight!

It might suit affiliate marketing also, have individuals buy it wholesale and sell to their friends/family and get 40% commission.

Must say sounds *really* interesting and could well have legs.

Just one more thing do you take it before going to bed or the morning after?

Gary

 

[Paul_Rosser]

Not one for me as personally I don't get hangovers.

But does sound interesting, do you take the product whilst you are drinking ? Or can you drink loads, take your product and then feel fine in the morning ?

 

[Ashley_Price]

So you are happy to drink a metabolic affector which has been shown to be highly toxic and addictive, yet you baulk at taking a nutritional supplement which is (by law) comprised only of compounds deemed to be very safe by the official regulatory government bodies?

Where did I say I wouldn't take something that had been backed by medical or scientific research?

 

[Progress Through Science]

i tried some of these tablets years ago, they worked but the more you took them as you drank, the less drunk you felt, so not quite the desired effect i was after!

there are loads of hangover cures online, can their websites give you any pointers?

good luck by the way

Aha yes the RU21 product. My training partner tried these and said that they were nowhere near as effective as my product and that the hassle factor involved in taking a dose of pills every couple of hours (not to mention the potential mis-understandings that might ensue from popping pills into your mouth in the middle of a bar, or being searched by police) made it a real drag to use.

Their website is a bit of a joke in my eyes. I don't like the claims they make, which will lead them to being shut down at some point I'm sure.

Saying 'take this and wake up clear' is a potential legal minefield. Imagine the 'less thoughtful person' who, after a stag night thinks he will be 'clear' and therefore safe to drive, because he/she took RU21... I'm surprised they haven't been sued already.

Finally, yes, they have some decent ingredients, but if you consider the size of the dose (2 pills, maybe 250mg total), then how can you get effective levels of those ingredients in such a small dose? You can't really. A single dose of my product is 4g, or 16 times greater and we use no fillers or binding ingredients (as you must in a hard pill) because ours is just powder - off white to prevent any misunderstandings.

Thanks for your input!

Alex

 

[Progress Through Science]

As regards marketing perhaps you need to go where your target market are? i.e. hang around outside bars and clubs on a weds/thurs/friday sat. night giving out free sachets after midnight!

It might suit affiliate marketing also, have individuals buy it wholesale and sell to their friends/family and get 40% commission.

Must say sounds *really* interesting and could well have legs.

Just one more thing do you take it before going to bed or the morning after?

Gary

I forsee the festival market being a possible area to target. Hand out lots of samples for £1 each on the first day, then charge the full price £2.50 on subsequent days.

Also yes, having promo girls outside student unions on the day of the week that is associated with the student night, could work well.

Thanks!

Alex

 

[Progress Through Science]

Not one for me as personally I don't get hangovers.

But does sound interesting, do you take the product whilst you are drinking ? Or can you drink loads, take your product and then feel fine in the morning ?

You can take it before drinking, though there is a small chance that you will struggle to get drunk (only 1 user reported this).

You can drink it before bed, still with good results, but not quite as good as if you took it before drinking.

For a very heavy session, take 1dose before drinking and 1 before bed.

Taking it the morning after is by far the least effective method.

Alex

 

[Progress Through Science]

Where did I say I wouldn't take something that had been backed by medical or scientific research?

Well that's the thing. You said you wouldn't take a product that hasn't been backed by medical research, yet all the ingredients in the product have been shown as safe... by medical research.

That's the whole point behind food supplement classification... to prevent manufacturers including harmful ingredients in their products.

Oh but wait... medical science initially 'backed' hydrogenated and trans fats. It took a while for evidence to come to light which showed how dangerous they are.

So, yes you are right not to just ingest anything and everything, but if you think that:

A) being backed by medical research ensures a 'clean and healthy' product
B) That products such as mine are dangerous

Then you would be largely mistaken.

Now if you are saying 'I wouldn't spend my money on any product that doesn't have a proven efficacy, as denoted by medical research', then that is a different matter entirely.

Skepticism is healthy (to a degree) and perfectly understandable, hence why I'm happy to prove the product with free samples.

Perhaps you would care to further explain your stance, since this kind of consumer resistance is an excellent learning tool for marketing my product.

Alex

 

[Ashley_Price]

I am also thinking I wouldn't accept tablets or sachets off someone who I've never met who is offering them to me for free. Sounds dodgy to me.

 

[sarahjohs]

I wouldn't touch anything that supposedly makes changes to my body's metabolism in some way, without it being backed up by medical research.

See THIS ARTICLE about a hangover cure in America. It had to be passed by the Food and Drug Administration Agency before it could go on sale.

Alcohol dehydrates you, so after an evening's drinking, it is usually good to have a couple of pints of water before going to bed. This alone can help mitigate the effects of a hangover. You can see a lot of great tips for fighting a hangover on the Drink Aware website: HERE

completely agree. A product of this kind has to pass a great deal of testing before it can hit the market.

 

[serendipitybusiness]

Hi Guys

I think what Ashley is trying to point out that seems to be getting lost in passion and translation, is that it is great that it is working on your tests but you can't make any claims without it being backed with clinical research.

The EU is very tight on what you can and can't say and has significantly affected product descriptions of natural ingredients that have been used for years that have well known benefits.

Be careful how you market this or you could be breaking EU legislation which could cost you a lot if you start gaining traction.

Hope this helps

 

[Progress Through Science]

Hi Guys

I think what Ashley is trying to point out that seems to be getting lost in passion and translation, is that it is great that it is working on your tests but you can't make any claims without it being backed with clinical research.

The EU is very tight on what you can and can't say and has significantly affected product descriptions of natural ingredients that have been used for years that have well known benefits.

Be careful how you market this or you could be breaking EU legislation which could cost you a lot if you start gaining traction.

Hope this helps

You sir (or madam) are 100% correct. We cannot say anything that may be deemed as 'medical type claims' unless we have a license, granted by MHRA which will only be granted upon successful completion of extensive (and expensive!) testing.

So what I'm looking for are alternative ways to market such a product without infringing upon those boundaries set out by the MHRA.

For example, I have removed the phrase 'hangover prevention aid' and simply stated 'consume product before drinking alcohol'. I have also put on the back 'vitamin and mineral pre-plenishment drink with added benefits'.

In other words I have to carefully skate around what the product actually does, yet still leave enough clues that people can grasp its purpose.

Any help appreciated. Thanks to those who have contacted me regarding purchasing the product or asking for samples. I applaud your spirit of adventure and willingness to participate!

Alex

 

[Progress Through Science]

completely agree. A product of this kind has to pass a great deal of testing before it can hit the market.

Actually that is incorrect. Or rather, you would be correct if this was a medicine. However since it is a food supplement and therefore comprised only of ingredients deemed to be safe, no testing has to be done. I just cannot advertise it in any way that might appear to be medical.

Now lets suppose that I made a crapload of money from this product as it stands. I might then decide to spend the money to have the product evaluated under medical conditions in the hope that once the license has been granted, I can sell it out of clinics, dentists, etc and even have it prescribed by doctors to heavy drinkers and alcoholics.

Even then though, there might be backlash from those people who are narrowminded enough to believe that our product 'encourages' drinking, which of course it does not - nowhere on our site or on the product will you find any words that resemble the statement 'take this and you can drink more alcohol'. So the product might then get pulled anyway - the MHRA have a history of making things up as and when it suits them, sadly.

Alex.

 

[serendipitybusiness]

Great, looks like you know exactly what you are doing. Can I ask out of interest are all of the ingredients 100% natural and suitable for vegetarians and vegans?

 

[Progress Through Science]

Great, looks like you know exactly what you are doing. Can I ask out of interest are all of the ingredients 100% natural and suitable for vegetarians and vegans?

Totally suitable.

Ingredients are amino acids vitamins and minerals, nothing else. More details are of course provided on the packet.

Alex

 

[Deleted member 130603]

I did, in my introductory post, portray this as something that was specifically a 'hangover cure' not a product which should be consumed before consuming alcohol which 'may mitigate the side effects of alcohol'. So I am probably responsible for most of the miscommunication.

I hope the previous posts by Alex have cleared up the confusion. Any (more) marketing advice will be appreciated, I have had some good ideas from the suggestions so far, thanks.

 

[Progress Through Science]

Totally suitable.

Ingredients are amino acids vitamins and minerals, nothing else. More details are of course provided on the packet.

Alex

For some reason I cannot edit my posts, so I'll do it this way.

All ingredients are of proven quality and purity and the manufacturing plant is GMP certified.

However you have to decide what is 'natural'. All the ingredients exist in nature, either as compounds in their own right or as intermediate steps in enzymatic reactions within your own body. There is nothing 'unnatural', however they all come out of a stainless steel nozzle somewhere. I guess it depends on where you draw the line.

Actually, having said that, there is a tiny amount of sucralose in the flavouring system we use. I wanted to use stevia instead, but it won't mix.

Alex

 

[Progress Through Science]

I've had a few people PMing me for samples and that is excellent; keep them coming.

However just to be clear: I do not need 'guinea pigs'. The product is in production and has been selling well in December.

The product is effective, safe and well tolerated, so I do not need further confirmation of that.

However I will gladly send samples put to board members. All I ask in return is that you put up some feedback here in this thread and like us on facebook.

I'm not giving out details of the website or facebook page here in public, because I've been around here for approximately 5 minutes and would consider it impertinent to 'pimp' the product so blatantly.

All the best,
Alex

 

[Ashley_Price]

For some reason I cannot edit my posts, so I'll do it this way.

You have up to 15 minutes to edit your posts. UKBF doesn't allow endless time to edit a post otherwise continuous editing to previous posts could make replies nonsensical.

 

[Ashley_Price]

I think the lesson to be learned from this thread is, if someone is posting on your behalf, make sure they give an accurate account so that people don/t give responses that wouldn't be necessary if the original poster had made things clear.

 

[Progress Through Science]

You have up to 15 minutes to edit your posts. UKBF doesn't allow endless time to edit a post otherwise continuous editing to previous posts could make replies nonsensical.

Yes, I certainly see the logic in that. However it only took me 5 minutes absolute maximum to edit, yet I could not submit.

Alex

 

[Progress Through Science]

I think the lesson to be learned from this thread is, if someone is posting on your behalf, make sure they give an accurate account so that people don/t give responses that wouldn't be necessary if the original poster had made things clear.

I agree, though to his credit, fiftyintheclip was just trying to help out a mate.

Thanks Ashley.

Alex

 

[Ashley_Price]

I agree, though to his credit, fiftyintheclip was just trying to help out a mate.

Ah yes, but how many of us have made things worse by trying to help out a mate?!

 

[garyk]

I've had a few people PMing me for samples and that is excellent; keep them coming.

However just to be clear: I do not need 'guinea pigs'. The product is in production and has been selling well in December.

The product is effective, safe and well tolerated, so I do not need further confirmation of that.

However I will gladly send samples put to board members. All I ask in return is that you put up some feedback here in this thread and like us on facebook.

I'm not giving out details of the website or facebook page here in public, because I've been around here for approximately 5 minutes and would consider it impertinent to 'pimp' the product so blatantly.

All the best,
Alex

Alex, where is the site and FB page please?

Cheers

Gary

 

[Progress Through Science]

Alex, where is the site and FB page please?

Cheers

Gary

Well since you asked *blush*...

OK we have progressthroughscience.com

The site is functional but there are still a few glitches. Works better in firefox or chrome.

facebook.com/winnersprevail

Cheers,
Alex

 

[Progress Through Science]

Ah yes, but how many of us have made things worse by trying to help out a mate?!

You mean like the time I tried to find a nice Thai woman for my mate and 'she' turned out to be a ladyboy?

I guess I should have known when she nearly poked my eye out with her adams apple!

Alex

 

[Deleted member 130603]

Ah yes, but how many of us have made things worse by trying to help out a mate?!

No good deed goes unpunished... :-(

If I hadn't 'got the ball rolling' Alex probably wouldn't have got his backside onto the forum. No such thing as bad publicity...

 

[mobious]

I was also wondering how realistic it would be to approach chains like Weatherspoons who could perhaps vend them in machines similar to the way they do with condoms? Here, the problem is that they may be concerned about their corporate image and not want to be seen to be encouraging irresponsible drinking.

I was going to say this before even reading it all - then I thought with these they are expensive to get in there, rates to the supplier and the equipment is not cheap.

You need to back track the usual journey of people with hangovers - they usually send the nearest and dearest to the shop for painkillers - try and get them in, branded as a hangover cure next to paracetamol. Also look at cafe's with the saying - a fried breakfast cures a hang over. If it's a drink sachet then make it available through the cafe?

SEO - Get ranking for the terms of hang over cures, people take them on holiday with them - get them in places like Boots?

I would also target the hospitality sector; places like Manchester city center hotels - pitch it to hotels to add these in their welcome packs?

Loads of ways you can go, it's all trial and error perhaps. I would take it they are cheap to produce? with the free samples? do they have the website on?

 

[mobious]

I can drink that amount without any affect the next morning without the aid of supplements.

And now Ashley feels EPICCCCC...I wish that could be said for me, 3-4 pints and I'm ill.

 

[Progress Through Science]

I was going to say this before even reading it all - then I thought with these they are expensive to get in there, rates to the supplier and the equipment is not cheap.

You need to back track the usual journey of people with hangovers - they usually send the nearest and dearest to the shop for painkillers - try and get them in, branded as a hangover cure next to paracetamol. Also look at cafe's with the saying - a fried breakfast cures a hang over. If it's a drink sachet then make it available through the cafe?

SEO - Get ranking for the terms of hang over cures, people take them on holiday with them - get them in places like Boots?

I would also target the hospitality sector; places like Manchester city center hotels - pitch it to hotels to add these in their welcome packs?

Loads of ways you can go, it's all trial and error perhaps. I would take it they are cheap to produce? with the free samples? do they have the website on?

Good thinking but alas, this product is not merely a 'symptom suppressor', so is not designed be taken once you have the hangover.

It needs to be taken before/during or immediately after drinking (before bed) or else it cannot work as intended, which is to prevent the hangover, not mask the symptoms of an existing hangover.

I'm about to commission 150,000 custom sachets which will bring the cost of manufacture right down, making a deal with a chain of bars much more financially achievable.

Thanks for spending some time thinking about this!

PM me and I'll send you a free sample if you want.

Alex

 

[mobious]

Good thinking but alas, this product is not merely a 'symptom suppressor', so is not designed be taken once you have the hangover.

It needs to be taken before/during or immediately after drinking (before bed) or else it cannot work as intended, which is to prevent the hangover, not mask the symptoms of an existing hangover.

I'm about to commission 150,000 custom sachets which will bring the cost of manufacture right down, making a deal with a chain of bars much more financially achievable.

Thanks for spending some time thinking about this!

PM me and I'll send you a free sample if you want.

Alex

No worries Alex, another route may be reaching out to Taxi companies as most people use these on a night out, having posters on the back of seats etc... may also be worth targeting people who currently have a hang over like a "same good night, minus the hang over" phrase - so people with hang overs know its an option for the next "big night out" - for the free sample sounds great, I'm a sucker for a freebie! and no one drinks quite as much as a geordie

 

[Progress Through Science]

No worries Alex, another route may be reaching out to Taxi companies as most people use these on a night out, having posters on the back of seats etc... may also be worth targeting people who currently have a hang over like a "same good night, minus the hang over" phrase - so people with hang overs know its an option for the next "big night out" - for the free sample sounds great, I'm a sucker for a freebie! and no one drinks quite as much as a geordie

Taxi companies... that a new one on me, I'm impressed!

I did consider stag and hen companies as well, but have no links/contacts there yet.

Will get your sample out on Monday!

Alex