Manufacturers warranty vs return to seller - reasonable timeframe?

[jxm28788]

If we sell products that have a 2 year manufacturers warranty, and a customer comes back to us saying it is faulty, what is the timeframe after delivery where we would be expected to take it back and when we could ask them to claim on the warranty? A week? a month? 3 months?

Is there anything established in consumer law or sale of goods act that sets a timeframe?

I believe that we could request that the customer claims under warranty from day 1, but that they could refuse and insist we deal with it. In that case is there a point where we are no longer expected to deal with it by the various regulations?

 

[WaveJumper]

The consumer law I thought was pretty clear:

Accepting returns and giving refunds: the law

When you do and do not have to offer a refund, repair or replacement, unconditional refunds for online purchases, and penalties for deceiving customers

www.gov.uk

 

[jxm28788]

The consumer law I thought was pretty clear:

Accepting returns and giving refunds: the law

When you do and do not have to offer a refund, repair or replacement, unconditional refunds for online purchases, and penalties for deceiving customers

www.gov.uk

ok, 6 months, thanks.

 

[Nico Albrecht]

ok, 6 months, thanks.

Definitely more than 6 months! The duration for which you are responsible for your sold items is much longer than you might think. You should anticipate a minimum of one year, but this period may be longer depending on your terms of service and manufacturer agreement.

Consider the case of someone who purchases a new Toshiba NAS drive from Amazon with a three-year warranty, but it fails after only 18 months. In this situation, Toshiba will not engage with the consumer and will instead refer them to the retailer for the three-year warranty.

If you have a defective Apple device after one to two years and want to make a claim under the five-year regulations, Apple will direct you to the retailer after two years and will not cover the costs of repair.

I have encountered numerous instances with Apple products from 2016 to 2020 that had poor build quality, and I had to go to Currys, the retailer, to get a refund or have the repair expenses covered. Apple seemed to have forgotten about the known defects as soon as the one to two-year warranty period had expired. However, in each case, Currys provided a full refund or covered the repair costs, which were over £500.

 

[Nico Albrecht]

I'd argue on a bad day you are on the hook for up to 5 - 6 years. My contract is with you not the manufacture. If I buy a product and the manufacture goes bust tomorrow my contract is with you and I will come after you for the next 5 years for a refund or repair on B2C terms and protections.

B2B is a different game and wouldn't apply with that sort of level of protection.

 

[DontAsk]

Manufacturers' warranties are always in addition to statutory rights, so you are always responsible. A period of up to 7 years is often mentioned, but it depends on reasonable expectations, e.g., you would expect something with John Lewis branding to last longer that a similar item from the pound shop.

Either deal with it, or inform the customer of the manufacturer warranty and try to persuade them to deal direct with the manufacturer. E.g., "they are the experts..."

 

[DontAsk]

Some manufacturers, e.g., Vax, encourage you to go straight to them, rather than returning it to the shop.

The conspiracist in me suspects that's to stop the shops seeing how crap the products are. Vax service is great, but if they sold better products in the first place, ...

 

[jxm28788]

I'd argue on a bad day you are on the hook for up to 5 - 6 years. My contract is with you not the manufacture. If I buy a product and the manufacture goes bust tomorrow my contract is with you and I will come after you for the next 5 years for a refund or repair on B2C terms and protections.

B2B is a different game and wouldn't apply with that sort of level of protection.

According to the link above it says -

"You must repair or replace an item if a customer returns it within 6 months - unless you can prove it was not faulty when they bought it.

You can ask a customer to prove an item was faulty when they bought it if they ask for a repair or replacement after 6 months."

So according to that anything after 6 months they would have to prove it was faulty when they bought it (ie. if it breaks later that doesn't count), so where do you get 5-6 years from? How would you prove a 5 year old product was faulty when you bought it 5 years ago? Or are you referring to a different regulation?

 

[Newchodge]

According to the link above it says -

So according to that anything after 6 months they would have to prove it was faulty when they bought it (ie. if it breaks later that doesn't count), so where do you get 5-6 years from? How would you prove a 5 year old product was faulty when you bought it 5 years ago? Or are you referring to a different regulation?

The fault was present when you brought it. For example a weakness in a compnent that caused it to break after 12 moonths, as opposed to treating the item badly and causing the component to break.

 

[jxm28788]

The fault was present when you brought it. For example a weakness in a compnent that caused it to break after 12 moonths, as opposed to treating the item badly and causing the component to break.

But a) How would you as a consumer prove that, and b) who are you to say what the lifetime of a specific component should be?

 

[Newchodge]

But a) How would you as a consumer prove that, and b) who are you to say what the lifetime of a specific component should be?

To answer the second question, the manufacturer's warranty suggests how long the item should continue to function effectively. Evidence to prove the original fault will vary. Consumer information - every item suppleid fails through this component at about the same time; lack of evidence for anything other than manufacturing fault; engineer's report. It is done all the time.

 

[Duke Fame]

"but it depends on reasonable expectations, e.g., you would expect something with John Lewis branding to last longer that a similar item from the pound shop."

I don't think brand reputation comes into it.

 

[The Byre]

Cases of precedent tell us that if a product fails repeatedly in the first six months after purchase, the customer has to right to refuse the product totally as being unfit and get their money back. Repeatedly means at least three times.

 

[DontAsk]

I don't think brand reputation comes into it.

I think it does, in setting reasonable expectations. Would you reasonably expect a Miele dishwasher to last longer than some own brand you had never heard of?

There are other factors such as price, of course.

[Edit] Which think so too, from https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act-aKJYx8n5KiSl

"Durability takes into account many different factors like product type, brand reputation, price point and how it is advertised. For example you're unlikely to be able to claim a cheap kettle that's stopped working after four years isn't durable. "

 

[DontAsk]

where do you get 5-6 years from

It was in the old Sale of Godds Act https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/sale-of-goods-act-a4fvv5x8SaYa now superceded by the Consumer Rights Act https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act-aKJYx8n5KiSl

"You have up to six years to take a claim to the small claims court for faulty goods in England, Wales and Northern Ireland"

 

[Newchodge]

Cases of precedent tell us that if a product fails repeatedly in the first six months after purchase, the customer has to right to refuse the product totally as being unfit and get their money back. Repeatedly means at least three times.

The law, however, states that if a product fails after 1 month and before 6 months, the supplier can choose either to repair, replace or refund. If they repair and the repair fails again they must refund or replace like for like.

 

[The Byre]

The law, however, states that if a product fails after 1 month and before 6 months, the supplier can choose either to repair, replace or refund. If they repair and the repair fails again they must refund or replace like for like.

In which case it has failed three times - simples! (Fail/Repair. Fail/Repair. Fail - customer rejects the product.)

 

[Newchodge]

In which case it has failed three times - simples! (Fail/Repair. Fail/Repair. Fail - customer rejects the product.)

No - Fail - Repair - Fail - Refund

 

[The Byre]

If they repair and the repair fails again they must refund or replace like for like.

If a repair fails AGAIN then there must have been THREE failures.

I have just been through a case like this with Curry's and one of their rubbish Kenwood machines (all they had at the time). The machine was repaired twice and then I returned it and paid the difference and got a proper dishwasher from Bosch.

 

[LPB 123]

If a repair fails AGAIN then there must have been THREE failures.

I have just been through a case like this with Curry's and one of their rubbish Kenwood machines (all they had at the time). The machine was repaired twice and then I returned it and paid the difference and got a proper dishwasher from Bosch.

I think @Newchodge is right, it's just 2 failures before the supplier has to offer a refund.

 

[The Byre]

Then it has only been repaired ONCE - she wrote "If they repair and the repair fails again . . ." So TWO repairs, not one repair. Had she written "If they repair and the repair fails . . " then it would have been just two failures!

Consumer Rights Act 2015 - Section 24 does not clearly stipulate two or three failures. Case law shows that it may be just one repair and two failures if it is apparent that the article is not going to fulfill its intended purpose. If however the repair either fails or it fails again for another reason, that is when the customer can conclude that the item is never going to work properly.

It can also be no repairs but the failure is so catastrophic that any reasonable person would conclude that the item is by design faulty - e.g. the dishwasher catches fire.

 

[LPB 123]

Consumer Rights Act 2015 - Section 24 does not clearly stipulate two or three failures.

After one repair or one replacement, the goods do not conform to the contract they have the right to reject: section 24, 5a.

Consumer Rights Act 2015

www.legislation.gov.uk

Which also state the same

Consumer Rights Act 2015 - Which?

The Consumer Rights Act protects you in almost all purchases you make. Here we explain what it means when buying goods or services

www.which.co.uk

Fail - Repair - Fail - Refund

This is correct.

 

[IanSuth]

i am just about to ring Mira about a shower that has died 2 months over their 2 yr warranty - expect they will punt me to screwfix whom i bought it from

 

[Newchodge]

i am just about to ring Mira about a shower that has died 2 months over their 2 yr warranty - expect they will punt me to screwfix whom i bought it from

Your contract is with Screwfix. Why waste your time bothering a third party?

 

[IanSuth]

Your contract is with Screwfix. Why waste your time bothering a third party?

because screwfix demand you try manufacturer first if over 30 days you have fitted it and manufacturer offers a warranty

 

[DontAsk]

because screwfix demand you try manufacturer first if over 30 days you have fitted it and manufacturer offers a warranty

They can't do that.

 

[Newchodge]

They can't do that.

To be fair, they can demand whatever they like. And the customer can tell them to do one and to deal with their issue or face legal proceedings.

 

[MBE2017]

Most large companies do the 30 day type thing. After 30 days they tell you to contact the manufacturer direct, both they and the manufacturers tend to prefer this.

If you want the actual store to deal with things they will, but it simply puts a delay on things, since all the store will do is email or post details, any questions regarding the faults have to be put back and forth, with the potential of mistakes creeping into the system.

Dealing direct is faster, just don’t sit on long phone calls waiting to speak to someone.

 

[IanSuth]

No answer from Mira so rang back crewfix and got a decent ex squaddie human.

Screwfix are going to discuss a spare part or replacement with Mira on Monday when Mira are at work (they knock off fri lunchtime), i am 99% sure the solonoid has died as have water, have power, have power light, not scaled up, microswitch works but nothing happens when you turn shower on.

They will call me back once discussed

 

[Nico Albrecht]

Dealing direct is faster, j

That's one hell of a statement and all comes down to the manufacture and who's the retailer.

I have to RMA's open with a manufacture and 45 days in no replacement yet. It just went quite. Same products bought from Amazon next day replaced under warranty.

As said before it depends who is the retailer and who's the manufacture.