looking for advertising advice

[ianhaney]

Hi everyone

I am looking for some advice as totally stuck. I run my own website design business and have recently increased my prices as felt I was not charging enough and want to attract better clients and am bit stuck where or how to advertise. I felt Facebook was not the right place to be advertising in the business groups as just feel Facebook is not the place to advertise a website design business and have tried telephone calls but didn't seem to work so recently have been going through yell.com and looking at current websites on there and if I felt the design was outdated or felt I could do better I would email the business owner, obviously put together a good email pitch but got nothing back from around 5/600 emails sent. Has anyone any tips or ideas on where or how to advertise my business.

Thank you in advance

 

[Alan]

Unfortunately website reviews are for full members only.

Regarding advertising, I feel your pain, been there and done it from cheap to premium ( and failed to grow where / when we wanted to )

As you know, at the cheaper end, you can get business via Adwords or Facebook, but those clients tend to be low value price sensitive and to be frank, a pain, as they expect the world and want to pay nothing.

When we went 'up' market, we found the only way we won business was from

• referrals ( yes catch 22 so do the following first)
• networking - physical - face to face networking
• speaking engagements - top agencies are doing at least 2 speaking engagements per month

Other forms of advertising / marketing were a waste of time ( PPC, SEO, print, exhibitions etc )

 

[ianhaney]

Hi Alan

Thank you so much for the comment, really appreciate it

I have removed my website link as forgot that reviews are for full members only, so sorry

Yeah think will have a look to see what local networking events there are, wonder if some sort of referral scheme would work where if get referred, the referrer receives some sort of commission but think that would only work for my existing clients who have used me and seen my work as strangers who have never used me or seen my work would refer me

Is tough one going from cheap to premium but hopefully is worth as just get fed up and get bit down with the cheap clients who want the world for very little as you say or ones that mess around with paying or mess around delaying the site or just disappear all together and then lose out on the money

I got quite a few nice designs for clients on my portfolio but would it be worth doing some sample sites as well

 

[Improve Marketing]

For me the first place I would start is SEO. Ranking locally for keywords such as website design [Location] or Web Designer [Location]. Its a slow process but really works once it gets going. Directories are a good place, I see you started there. Keep going. There are lots of directories, Yell.com, Hot Frog, Thompson Directories etc etc. They deliver traffic and SEO value. The best place to get your website onto Google and scooping traffic is to make sure that you have a Google Business listing, whilst you are at it sort your Bing Business listing too. This gets you ranking locally for keywords. Really useful. I have written blog posts on how to get business but I cant post you a link so check out Improve Marketing and look for the blog, loads of great tips there!

Final tip, don't give up! The more avenues you try the more you'll succeed. Good luck!

 

[ianhaney]

Hi Improve Marketing

I have optimised the site for website design basildon and am on page one 7 down but am not in the google maps listings, how do I get it into there and also for website design essex I am on page page 3 7 down again. How would I rank for website design basildon and website design essex, would I create a new page on my website?

I have created a Google maps listing quite a while ago and will do a bing business listing now and will have a look for Improve Marketing and look for the blog

I will definitely not give up, I am determined to stick with it and make it work

 

[Alan]

For me the first place I would start is SEO.

Having been there and done it, I wouldn't bother with SEO.

In my experience SEO is the same as Adword in terms of the type of client you get - cheap. If you want to sell cheap websites ( we started at £75 believe it or not ) then go for it.

Ironically, some of the more successful agencies rank really well with SEO - and what they have to do is to specifically spell out that they are not interested in mr cheap - e.g. Our budget websites start from £10,000 - even You can get your website designed starting from £20,000

If they didn't they would be inundated with plumbers and gardeners asking for £199 sites.

 

[ianhaney]

I did start out as low as £99 if I remember and gradually increased it still got the clients who want it all for little or nothing

 

[Alan]

Most clients sub £1,000 in my experience are likely to not really understand what they are getting and are likely to be thinking 'its a lot of money' and expect a return on investment from the website alone. These are typically the 'one man bands' that have perhaps what I call second generation website experience, i.e. they tried themselves and got a dogs dinner, or they got their nephew / friend 'who has dabbled in websites' to build something and it was OK but now they don't have the time to make it better.

I'm not saying these clients are not worth having, but they have to have their expectations managed and a lot of effort goes in for little return, and it is a thankless task turning out the same thing, and dealing with the same lack of knowledge .....

It is not until you break out of this 'commodity' group that you find 'real businesses' that spending £10,000 as part of their marketing budget for a website just isn't an issue. But these businesses are not searching on Google for 'web design Basildon' or hanging out on Facebook.

But to be in the premium league you do need to at least believe you are something special.

 

[ianhaney]

Yeah I've had that before, I build the website and then once it's done they say when is it on Google and say I don't optimise it for Google but always recommend a SEO company who shares the office with me or they say I built in but it's not great but they can't afford to get it done properly

That's it, it's finding the ones who are not on Facebook or searching for web design Basildon or even web design essex

I believe my designs are good enough to be charging what I am now but it's getting across to the potential clients why I am something special and what makes me better and different from the other web designers

 

[Jason Mageehan]

Hi Ian. Personally, and no offence here, I don't find it credible in any way.

The copy is written poorly, your portfolio has awful stretched text and iStock watermarks on the web sites, it says nothing about the results that you get for your clients.

Sorry, but it just looks like a $30 template with some basic content in.

I really don't mean to be so negative, but if you're charging an average price of £875 - you need to set the bar higher.

In terms of how to promote yourself, one of my clients literally got an introduction postcard made and walked around businesses asking them if they'd like someone to help with their website.

If you approach someone you've found on yell and say "hi mate, I've just seen your website online and I think it's dated and I can make you a better one" - they'll probably feel a bit upset by that. Maybe their son did it in his spare time, perhaps they spent 50 hours doing the best they can do to make it....you just don't know.

If I was looking for a website to be made, I'd be looking to see who was in the organic listings - that tells me to a certain extent how well the site has been made (in the back end), I'd be looking for a designer who has business credentials and can show they have generated good ROI, and finally I'd be looking for 3 reasons why I should trust them above anyone else.

That's why PPH, upwork, freelancer work so well, it's a marketplace for whatever you need with easy to see reviews from members, portfolios and a guarantee of good work subject to your brief....have you looked into those sites to get freelance work there?

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Has he been hacked...?

Or is he a spammer trying to get traffic to his crap affiliate site...?

 

[BusinessTradeCentre]

You are a website designer and you are asking how to get on page 1? For me this means you have no idea how to optimize websites for search engines which would put me right off.

Having knowledge in search engine optimization is a must for any website designer. Because this is a major upsell to clients. Even if you outsource the work to another company.

I would suggest you take sometime to learn at least the basics of SEO.

 

[Improve Marketing]

Or outsource your SEO!

 

[Alan]

That's why PPH, upwork, freelancer work so well, it's a marketplace for whatever you need with easy to see reviews from members, portfolios and a guarantee of good work subject to your brief....have you looked into those sites to get freelance work there?

Ahhhhgggg, these sites must be responsible for the suicide of many a web designer / developer, and probably a few purchasers. When you see that every single 'job' is bid on by a minimum of 45 low cost / off shore companies and that you know the purchasers are buying on price .... its not where the OP wants to be or needs to be ...

but if you're charging an average price of £875 - you need to set the bar higher.

This is the point I was trying to make - if you want to break out of the 'bad' buyers - you need to start thinking website MINIMUMS are £2,000 now.

You are a website designer and you are asking how to get on page 1? For me this means you have no idea how to optimize websites for search engines which would put me right off.

If you read the posts you will see he is on page 1 but was asking specific SEO advice .... the original thread was about advertising - but got side railed by 'improve marketing' into SEO.

However, you comment is typical of the 'bad' customers he needs to loose, that don't understand what the various roles and specialisations are and assumes a 'web designer' is an SEO expert. For clarity a web designer job is to design a web site based on the client's brief that reflects the clients' brand, that presents the client's content in an easy to use format for the internet and meets the client's objectives in terms of user journeys and conversion paths.

It isn't to help a client with its digital marketing.

That doesn't mean that there are not hybrid businesses that build websites and do digital marketing - but lets not confuse the issue.

 

[AllUpHere]

There are so many points I could make about this thread, it's hard to know where to start. Web design is a very easy business to market (in fact one of the easiest). If you are having trouble you are either doing the wrong things, or doing them in the wrong way.

The most common problem I see (on a daily basis) is trying to skip the strategic planning stage through eagerness to jump into promoting the business. Take a step back and have a think about strategy first.

If you've sent hundreds of emails with no success you are obviously either sending the wrong email, making the wrong offer, or sending them to the wrong people, or most likely all of the above. I've had very close to 100 % response rates to emails promoting very similar businesses to yours (as well as many other business types). I NEVER get response rates that are the pathetically low figures often banded about as the 'average', and it's all down to strategic planning (and some damn fine copywriting).

 

[threenine]

That's why PPH, upwork, freelancer work so well, it's a marketplace for whatever you need with easy to see reviews from members, portfolios and a guarantee of good work subject to your brief....have you looked into those sites to get freelance work there?

OMG! I can't believe anyone would openly promote those services!!
Those websites are nothing more than a graveyard for C%@p ideas! Where everybody is in the race to the bottom!

The fact is, as @Alan the only way to get more reputable business is by networking.

Not the networking of popping down to you local BNI and meeting up with the local solicitors and estate agents, but actually look for other areas.

I have done extremely well out of meetups! First started going to meetups in subject areas I had an interest in.

I had no intention of going there to sell it was more too learn, but ended up making more sales than any other channel, because I actually connected with human beings on a human level!

I admit it took time, but it worked! but like I say, I didn't approach it with marketing & sales at the time.

There is definitely a medium for SEO & PPC and digital marketing in general, but the fact is if you're in the professional services game, you're essentially selling the invisible and a lot that is based on trust. This required Human To Human contact.

Cold Calling and "reaching out" , there is an art to it, and some people do well. However, nothing puts my back up more, as a marketer and business man in general, than someone interrupting what I am doing and trying to sell me a product or service, that I'm not actively interested in at that time.

Yes, blogging and content marketing and all the other sutff is important, BUT....... you need to know where in your marketing strategy it needs to fit in.

 

[Jason Mageehan]

@threenine and @Alan - while there is a hectic rush for the bottom end...there is in every day things too ... just because something is cheap doesn't mean that I'm going to go with it. I drive a BMW not a Dacia - those sites are a marketplace for people and I've had great success meeting developers and PPC people on there who generate a lot of good work.

Market places work, ebay and amazon prove that. Particularly PPH I've had a lot of experience with and have found that on a few occasions where work has been sub-standard that I've been taken care of by their customer service team and have gone with other suppliers still on the same platform.

Sorry to be disagreeable but it's just like any other marketplace to me.

 

[threenine]

I think maybe as "Customer" PPH and the like may be good.

As a supplier, there is very little value. 99% of the customers on there are generally no-hopers or don't have a clue.

You can easily spot the pub conversation business ideas.

Trying to build a sustainable business from any of those "customers" on there is HUGE waste of time.

As you say that is my opinion. There may be somebody who's had success but I certainly haven't met them yet.

Ebay and amazon are slightly different, based on the fact if you're just punting low value high volume tat to get started, they are great. One of my business concerns does a decent turnover on there, but to be honest it took a lot of work and learning to get it to run smoothly, but the profit margins aren't exactly setting the world on fire either.

 

[Jason Mageehan]

@threenine - I suppose maybe you are right - I've had good success as a customer, but I'm notorious for my precise briefs and picky nature.

I suppose there must be a lot of numpties out there using the services.

Ebay and amazon are slightly different, based on the fact if you're just punting low value high volume tat to get started, they are great. One of my business concerns does a decent turnover on there, but to be honest it took a lot of work and learning to get it to run smoothly, but the profit margins aren't exactly setting the world on fire either.

Isn't every business hard to start at the beginning though? I don't see it as any different, really.

 

[Alan]

From PPH so a completely vague spec Fixed price £60 - 24 proposals!!!
"You will be required to:
Set up role editors for a Word Press themed site.
Set up AGREED plugins correctly
Carry out AGREED minor CSS and customisation of website
Create a Child Theme."

and
"I am currently looking for online tutorial website development which includes the following task;
1. Design the search engine for the course
2. Chat popup integration for customer support
3. EBS payment gateway integration. "
Fixed price £70

 

[PropertyWebmasters]

Use SEO to get your website ranking in Google and you can used advertising tools like AdWords, Bing Adwords and paid social media advertising tools to boost your website traffic and advertising efforts. A credible source of previous work would benefit.

 

[Jason Mageehan]

From PPH so a completely vague spec Fixed price £60 - 24 proposals!!!
"You will be required to:
Set up role editors for a Word Press themed site.
Set up AGREED plugins correctly
Carry out AGREED minor CSS and customisation of website
Create a Child Theme."

and
"I am currently looking for online tutorial website development which includes the following task;
1. Design the search engine for the course
2. Chat popup integration for customer support
3. EBS payment gateway integration. "
Fixed price £70

There are plenty of chancers out there.

There must be some people making it work though, else the site would die.

 

[Alan]

I must stop looking on there it is just a crazy market place - just saw one - convert a Joomal Virtue Mart to WordPress/WooCommerce including design (and transfer 500 products - £39 fixed price. Interestingly seems to be a Bangledesh Software house seeking freelancer. I wonder how much they are charging the end client.

I imagine most of it on PPH goes like this to today USA/UK/Euro Agency -> Outsource to Offshore Software House -> Outsource via PPH/Upwork/etc to offshore freelancer

As a 'UK' buyer it has its merits if you know how to recruit skills, as a 'UK' seller it really is pointless.

 

[threenine]

Isn't every business hard to start at the beginning though? I don't see it as any different, really.

Businesses are only difficult to set up if
A. You don't have a plan
B. You don't have target customers
C. You have unrealistic objectives
D. You don't have a marketing strategy
E. You're hoping it will all just work out

If you have all of that, and you execute on your plan to get your targeted customers.

It's all just down to effort then.

 

[Jason Mageehan]

Businesses are only difficult to set up if
A. You don't have a plan
B. You don't have target customers
C. You have unrealistic objectives
D. You don't have a marketing strategy
E. You're hoping it will all just work out

If you have all of that, and you execute on your plan to get your targeted customers.

It's all just down to effort then.

Hmm, that's what the books say....most people in business that I interact with say that the first few years is a struggle.

 

[threenine]

Hmm, that's what the books say....most people in business that I interact with say that the first few years is a struggle.

The primary reason why the first few years is a struggle for most businesses , is that for many it takes a while before they realise who their ideal customer is.

For many people who start out, and I have been in that boat before, is that you have an idea for a business, and you think everybody is your target.

It's only after a while you realise, that only certain people will buy your product/service/you and you need to make it your business to find those people

 

[Jason Mageehan]

It's only after a while you realise, that only certain people will buy your business and you need to make it your business to find those people

Exactly, which is why I think most people struggle with their first business.....knowing what I know now it has been easy to set up subsequent businesses in different industries.

 

[threenine]

Exactly, which is why I think most people struggle with their first business.....knowing what I know now it has been easy to set up subsequent businesses in different industries.

This right here, is exactly the what the OP needs to do.

Forget all the other BS about SEO, PPC, Blogging and websites etc.

What is actually required :

1. Analyse your current customer base
2. Eliminate the time wasting clients
3. Identify the most profitable customers. Making note of their characteristics, traits and nuances
4. Analyse the relationships with those customers
5. Talk to those customers to find out what they like about you and what it is about your service that they actually value the most
6. Go out and find more customers like that. Really, really target those types of customers

All the other shotgunning and carpet bombing stuff, is mostly a waste of time

PPC and SEO and all that is fine if you're an ecommerce company or you have a business with mass appeal, or you're just happy to get whoever, because you're just looking for growth etc.

But if you want to grow a profitable business, with repeat customers it requires targetting

 

[Jason Mageehan]

There you go Ian, you have a plan.

 

[micheal1981]

The primary reason why the first few years is a struggle for most businesses , is that for many it takes a while before they realise who their ideal customer is.

For many people who start out, and I have been in that boat before, is that you have an idea for a business, and you think everybody is your target.

It's only after a while you realise, that only certain people will buy your product/service/you and you need to make it your business to find those people

That is a great statment of advice for any newcomer! well said, thank you!

 

[Certa-Hosting]

Try Google AdWords . You can target your ads to customers in certain countries, regions or cities – or within a set distance from your business or shop.S igning up for Google AdWords is free. You only pay when someone clicks your ad to visit your website, or calls you.

 

[TheConsulter]

To make the email campaign more successful you should add recipients who are willing to purchase your services. You could add a box on your website, where people sign up for a newsletter or promotion in exchange for their email. These people have visited your website because they have an interest in the services you provide. To target these people would be more successful than randomly sending emails to business people you find online. People who have not opted-in are likely to flag your email as "junk" and this will then affect your emails to others as they may end up in the "junk folder" rather than in the "inbox" folder.