Lockrite Locksmith
- Thread starter Rikul
- Start date
I'm not a fan of franchises for most service based businesses. I've had a lot of clients over the years who have considered franchises, and then found they can set up for themselves for a lot lot less. It's not a difficult service to market, and actually buying the franchise will more than likely give you a marketing disadvantage.
How much do they want, and what do you get for your money?
How much do they want, and what do you get for your money?
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- Original Poster
- #4
I have friend who's currently a lockrite franchisee in North West region of London and hes getting a fair amount of jobs coming through on a daily basis both commercial and domestic.
They want 30k + vat not including van, insurance and liability insurance. They provide you with what it seems like a fairly basic key cutting machine, a range of tools and a long list of stock. But all of this is just to get you started. They provide you with 3 months free advertising and after that it's down to me.
What I liked about is that they already have the clientele (from what I can see) so atleast that way I have jobs coming in on regular basis.
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I just had a quick look on their website, and then did a little research of my own. They tell their franchisees that they work on their web presence and PPC advertising but the ones I checked didn't rank that well and I saw no sign of any PPC advertising.
It would seem that the only tangible things you get for your 30 grand are a key cutting machine and a load of blanks. If you need to buy a van on top of the 30 grand its a fairly large investment. I cant see the value in it, when it would be fairly easy to generate work for a business like that, and then not pay them anything (or give them an on-going cut).
It would seem that the only tangible things you get for your 30 grand are a key cutting machine and a load of blanks. If you need to buy a van on top of the 30 grand its a fairly large investment. I cant see the value in it, when it would be fairly easy to generate work for a business like that, and then not pay them anything (or give them an on-going cut).
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Root 66 Woodshop
What do you want to know?
I can give you some experiences that we've had as a non-user but a Locksmith who has had to repair work that some of their so called "lockies" have caused.
Just had a read some more of the thread...
So, you want to become a Locksmith? pay them £30k to use their franchise name... which 30k buys you key blanks and a key machine... training? I doubt there is any proper training involved TBH.
LOL!
I'll do you a massive favour... I'll sell you a full set up of key machines, cylinder, mortise and dimple/laser machine with 100 of each popular blank for £15k - I'll even throw in a weeks training course into that for you... A training course where you will actually learn something other than pulling/snapping a cylinder ...
£15,000 sign up now and I'll even come up with a company name for you send you some branded tops some work pants some basic tools that you'll need.
Heck i've even got a name for you worked out already... All you have to do then is... join one of the local checkatrade companies, local heroes companies, forget about a website you won't need one... advertise on FB, Twitter etc etc
£15,000 a bargain at half the price and I can guarantee you this... You will work your backside off - I'll even give you some supplier details
I can give you some experiences that we've had as a non-user but a Locksmith who has had to repair work that some of their so called "lockies" have caused.
Just had a read some more of the thread...
So, you want to become a Locksmith? pay them £30k to use their franchise name... which 30k buys you key blanks and a key machine... training? I doubt there is any proper training involved TBH.
LOL!
I'll do you a massive favour... I'll sell you a full set up of key machines, cylinder, mortise and dimple/laser machine with 100 of each popular blank for £15k - I'll even throw in a weeks training course into that for you... A training course where you will actually learn something other than pulling/snapping a cylinder ...
£15,000 sign up now and I'll even come up with a company name for you send you some branded tops some work pants some basic tools that you'll need.
Heck i've even got a name for you worked out already... All you have to do then is... join one of the local checkatrade companies, local heroes companies, forget about a website you won't need one... advertise on FB, Twitter etc etc
£15,000 a bargain at half the price and I can guarantee you this... You will work your backside off - I'll even give you some supplier details
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- Original Poster
- #10
Well I was attracted by it because of the clientele they deal with like Sainsbury's Regis etc etc . The way I was seeing it is yes I'm putting an extra 10k or so but I'm guaranteed jobs coming in on a weekly basis and being based in London is an advantage.
I can't speak for the workmanship of each franchisee as I am no expert. I can send you exactly what is included for the 30k stock list etc etc
I can't speak for the workmanship of each franchisee as I am no expert. I can send you exactly what is included for the 30k stock list etc etc
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Root 66 Woodshop
Sainsbury's may well be a customer of "one" of the franchise's But that won't guarantee that you would get their business at all...
Please read the MLA (Master Locksmith Association) *so you want to be a Locksmith* page... there are a number of companies/franchise's that claim you can make 30k+ a year but it's all rubbish... you'e
Only going to be making that kind of money by working 18 hour days, our engineer works roughly 90 hours a week... he's pulling around 25k a year, with on average 3k pure profit...
With all due respect he has around 15 years experience doing safe work, locksmithing and access control... I've not met anyone yet to his calibre he can get into pretty much anything that's been put infront of him... but thats been a seriously hard graft of 15 years... yet you're assuming you'll come into the business spending 30k and getting guaranteed work? ... no seriously what experience have you had and what training will be given... because I can guarantee you one thing...
it will be a long time before you see your 30k back... and that' the cold hard truth... sorry but there are so many folk attempting to come into this industry thinking it' a walk in the park... it' easy to swap a lock... I've just got home after helping our engineer repair one door it' taken 6 hours, 2 with my help... there's another door to repair yet... we've left it till the morning. Realistically it was priced as a 4 hour job for both doors... we can't charge anymore than what we've quoted as it' not the thing to do... but in hindsight we wouldn' have got the job at all if we'd charged anymore than what we have... this is a £1000 job... for 2 complete door repairs... majority of the cost is product we've installed we'll probably clear 200 quid profit.
Remember though... this is 25 years jointexperience working on two doors... and weve still got to go back... for another half day...
That's a hell of a lot of work for you to get back your 30k tbh...
Please read the MLA (Master Locksmith Association) *so you want to be a Locksmith* page... there are a number of companies/franchise's that claim you can make 30k+ a year but it's all rubbish... you'e
Only going to be making that kind of money by working 18 hour days, our engineer works roughly 90 hours a week... he's pulling around 25k a year, with on average 3k pure profit...
With all due respect he has around 15 years experience doing safe work, locksmithing and access control... I've not met anyone yet to his calibre he can get into pretty much anything that's been put infront of him... but thats been a seriously hard graft of 15 years... yet you're assuming you'll come into the business spending 30k and getting guaranteed work? ... no seriously what experience have you had and what training will be given... because I can guarantee you one thing...
it will be a long time before you see your 30k back... and that' the cold hard truth... sorry but there are so many folk attempting to come into this industry thinking it' a walk in the park... it' easy to swap a lock... I've just got home after helping our engineer repair one door it' taken 6 hours, 2 with my help... there's another door to repair yet... we've left it till the morning. Realistically it was priced as a 4 hour job for both doors... we can't charge anymore than what we've quoted as it' not the thing to do... but in hindsight we wouldn' have got the job at all if we'd charged anymore than what we have... this is a £1000 job... for 2 complete door repairs... majority of the cost is product we've installed we'll probably clear 200 quid profit.
Remember though... this is 25 years jointexperience working on two doors... and weve still got to go back... for another half day...
That's a hell of a lot of work for you to get back your 30k tbh...
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With respect, I see your point but all that example shows is that the guy is a great locksmith but a terrible business man. Nobody should struggle or have to work those hours to make 25 or 30 grand per year.
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Root 66 Woodshop
Far far from it... I see what you're saying and I understand why you would think that however the the cost on replacement locking products and security products in the UK alone is being killed by the online shops that sell at 2 - 3% profit margins. The amount of work that we're actually turning away proves this.
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What people can buy the actual materials for is irrelevant. Labour alone with no markup on materials will easily give 25 grand a year without the need to work silly hours.
I've helped a good few locksmiths with their marketing over the years and I wouldn't have been doing my job properly if any of them ended up making a profit of less than 30 grand per year.
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Root 66 Woodshop
Sorry but I have to disagree as a Locksmith myself who has been in the industry for 10 years and working for an insurance approved company it is no where near as easy as you make out.
The defining factor that both myself and other locksmiths in the industry far far longer than myself over the past 30 years has been Upvc doors.
The fact that it literally takes 2 minutes to remove a euro cylinder and some of the more unscrupulous "lockies" out there charge such ridiculous prices to remove one screw has meant that the locksmith industry is practically on it's knees trying to ensure that "We're not all like that" has meant that more and more domestic work is undertaken by the owners of the properties. Majority of our work is actually B2B, building master suited systems for other maintenance companies. We also provide our services to facility management companies however they all employ staff who can do the basics which is great as it allows us to provide other services and products that they can't do... however as we're a multi-tasking company for more than one security product it still doesn't take away the simple fact that Locksmithing is unfortunately a dying trade.
Tescos for instance purchased a maintenance company 5 years ago to perform such services that a Locksmith would provide and others like Lidl and Aldi all use master suited systems which are imported... yet employ maintenance companies to install... luckily we're an old skool kind of locksmith (proudly I might add) we can make keys in a way that some other companies can't do because it's not taught anymore.
We're n a throw away society when it comes to security these days simply because some products are so cheap to buy that folk don't see the point in keeping an old lock anymore simply because a key is worn or the levers are worn.
A fine example was 5 years ago my nephew rang me to discuss an issue he had the previous night... he had to call out an emergency locksmith out who charged him 400 quid to get into his rented apartment in London as he'd lost his keys... he was gobsmacked at how quick the guy got in to his flat.. swapped the lock and left leaving him 3 new keys... all he took with him was a pair of mulgrips a screwdriver and a new cylinder... I asked him for the brand of lock he'd put in and basically it was a cheap £2 Chinese lock... so I asked him what was actually said on the phone... turned out he was told the price prior to the guy turning up... so other than a morally wrong thing to do he had done no wrong...the price was agreed before the guy had probably got out of bed...
My point being is that these guys along with security products being bought online by joe public is killing the trade and there's nothing that can be done about it in this country simply because the government doesn't see this industry as a trade... therefore anyone can claim to be a Locksmith... the fact that some of these that claim to be locksmith couldn't tell you the difference between a top or bottom pin or tell you what BS3621 actually means doesn't seem to matter anymore...
The defining factor that both myself and other locksmiths in the industry far far longer than myself over the past 30 years has been Upvc doors.
The fact that it literally takes 2 minutes to remove a euro cylinder and some of the more unscrupulous "lockies" out there charge such ridiculous prices to remove one screw has meant that the locksmith industry is practically on it's knees trying to ensure that "We're not all like that" has meant that more and more domestic work is undertaken by the owners of the properties. Majority of our work is actually B2B, building master suited systems for other maintenance companies. We also provide our services to facility management companies however they all employ staff who can do the basics which is great as it allows us to provide other services and products that they can't do... however as we're a multi-tasking company for more than one security product it still doesn't take away the simple fact that Locksmithing is unfortunately a dying trade.
Tescos for instance purchased a maintenance company 5 years ago to perform such services that a Locksmith would provide and others like Lidl and Aldi all use master suited systems which are imported... yet employ maintenance companies to install... luckily we're an old skool kind of locksmith (proudly I might add) we can make keys in a way that some other companies can't do because it's not taught anymore.
We're n a throw away society when it comes to security these days simply because some products are so cheap to buy that folk don't see the point in keeping an old lock anymore simply because a key is worn or the levers are worn.
A fine example was 5 years ago my nephew rang me to discuss an issue he had the previous night... he had to call out an emergency locksmith out who charged him 400 quid to get into his rented apartment in London as he'd lost his keys... he was gobsmacked at how quick the guy got in to his flat.. swapped the lock and left leaving him 3 new keys... all he took with him was a pair of mulgrips a screwdriver and a new cylinder... I asked him for the brand of lock he'd put in and basically it was a cheap £2 Chinese lock... so I asked him what was actually said on the phone... turned out he was told the price prior to the guy turning up... so other than a morally wrong thing to do he had done no wrong...the price was agreed before the guy had probably got out of bed...
My point being is that these guys along with security products being bought online by joe public is killing the trade and there's nothing that can be done about it in this country simply because the government doesn't see this industry as a trade... therefore anyone can claim to be a Locksmith... the fact that some of these that claim to be locksmith couldn't tell you the difference between a top or bottom pin or tell you what BS3621 actually means doesn't seem to matter anymore...
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- Original Poster
- #19
There must be a reason why they have 60+ franchisees though surely.
A friend of mine has been doing it for over 5 years and I've seen first hand the amount of jobs he has coming in on a weekly basis yes of course there will be quite days and weeks however hes got enough of his own clientele and a name in our local area and he's now in a comfortable position where he doesn't need lockrite he's getting enough jobs on his own through his own contacts.
I believe the level of workmanship is down the to individual. If they want Todo a cowboy job that's down the person attending the job. I never said it was going to be a walk in the park. I mean which business is? You have to be motivated and hardworking enough to get off the ground and nobody was born with the skills we all gotta start from somewhere.
Like I said earlier the reason why I am interested is because of the accounts they deal with which from what from what i can see keeps you busy. I wanted to know of any horror/success stories from people who were previously or currently are lockrite franchisees.
A friend of mine has been doing it for over 5 years and I've seen first hand the amount of jobs he has coming in on a weekly basis yes of course there will be quite days and weeks however hes got enough of his own clientele and a name in our local area and he's now in a comfortable position where he doesn't need lockrite he's getting enough jobs on his own through his own contacts.
I believe the level of workmanship is down the to individual. If they want Todo a cowboy job that's down the person attending the job. I never said it was going to be a walk in the park. I mean which business is? You have to be motivated and hardworking enough to get off the ground and nobody was born with the skills we all gotta start from somewhere.
Like I said earlier the reason why I am interested is because of the accounts they deal with which from what from what i can see keeps you busy. I wanted to know of any horror/success stories from people who were previously or currently are lockrite franchisees.
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Root 66 Woodshop
I still don't get how you would expect a horror story from an existing or previous franchisee though... what kind of horror story are you expecting from them... do you want a lockie to come online and tell you how bad a job they did or do you want them to tell you of a nightmare job where someone assaulted them?...
What would it matter whether it was a franchisee or another lockie?
Four incidences that we've had is a call from a resident who had lost their keys and couldn't get into their property... the engineer attends asks relevant questions before opening the door for them... turns out it was a disgruntled ex tenant who had been kicked out of the property and wanted to get in to get his belongings without speaking to landlord. We walk away... he kicks off threatening to follow the engineer and kick his head in at his home... engineer stops... rings the police and watches the knob run away screaming obscenities at him.
Another job... we were asked to attend a property with the police as a tenant hadn't been seen for s couple of weeks upon opening the door the engineer steps aside to let the copper in to the property as the door opens the smell of what can only be described as "death hits everybody... toilet door is locked the engineer plus asked to open the toilet door which is only bolted on the inside... as he gets it open the latch bounces open... and tge engineer is met with the poor chap sat on the toilet who had suffered a heart attack and his body had "let go"... some things you're just not meant to bare witness too... and this is one of them in our line of work...
After receiving a call from a 70 year old chap who was worried about his 96 year old mother who had recently had a Locksmith out to repair her lock on her front porch... and had been charged 190 quid I was curious as to why he was calling us... the guy who had previously been out had basically ripped out a full mechanism and taken it away popped in an over night gearbox and swapped the cylinder... then told the lady it would be a further 235 quid plus VAT to replace the old mechanism... this isn't how a lockie should work... and certainly not treat a 98 year old lady like this... I asked why she had called a Locksmith in the first place and she said she couldn't lock the door... understandable you would say... no... what she didn't get a chance to say to the other lockie was she couldn't turn her key in the door because she couldn't lift the handle physically... nothing to do with the lock at all ... so I rang the company told then what had happened they refunded the 100 quid call out bug couldn't refund the 90 quid as that was the extra the lockie had charged for the over night gearbox .... the overnight gearbox would gave cost a tenner at the most... he point blank refused to return the money so we binned his gearbox and stuck in a brand new mechanism for 130 quid which she didn't need to lift to lock as it was a key operated latch and deadbolt ...
Treating a customer like a human being and not a cash cow is one of the most important things in the world tbh.
Another time the engineer was called to change locks on a vacant property... he had to gain entry first which was fairly easy as it was a Upvc door on the front and wooden door on the back with a mortise lock and nightlatch.
He gets in... changes the cylinder no issue on the back door he starts to remove the deadbolt... feels a bit creepy in this house he thinks... smells odd too... 10 minutes into the job he realises what was wrong... the house is covered and I mean covered in lice... you could literately see the carpet moving... he gets the locks changed and vacated the property... rings us up and tells me not to wait at the office he's going home to de-lice
What would it matter whether it was a franchisee or another lockie?
Four incidences that we've had is a call from a resident who had lost their keys and couldn't get into their property... the engineer attends asks relevant questions before opening the door for them... turns out it was a disgruntled ex tenant who had been kicked out of the property and wanted to get in to get his belongings without speaking to landlord. We walk away... he kicks off threatening to follow the engineer and kick his head in at his home... engineer stops... rings the police and watches the knob run away screaming obscenities at him.
Another job... we were asked to attend a property with the police as a tenant hadn't been seen for s couple of weeks upon opening the door the engineer steps aside to let the copper in to the property as the door opens the smell of what can only be described as "death hits everybody... toilet door is locked the engineer plus asked to open the toilet door which is only bolted on the inside... as he gets it open the latch bounces open... and tge engineer is met with the poor chap sat on the toilet who had suffered a heart attack and his body had "let go"... some things you're just not meant to bare witness too... and this is one of them in our line of work...
After receiving a call from a 70 year old chap who was worried about his 96 year old mother who had recently had a Locksmith out to repair her lock on her front porch... and had been charged 190 quid I was curious as to why he was calling us... the guy who had previously been out had basically ripped out a full mechanism and taken it away popped in an over night gearbox and swapped the cylinder... then told the lady it would be a further 235 quid plus VAT to replace the old mechanism... this isn't how a lockie should work... and certainly not treat a 98 year old lady like this... I asked why she had called a Locksmith in the first place and she said she couldn't lock the door... understandable you would say... no... what she didn't get a chance to say to the other lockie was she couldn't turn her key in the door because she couldn't lift the handle physically... nothing to do with the lock at all ... so I rang the company told then what had happened they refunded the 100 quid call out bug couldn't refund the 90 quid as that was the extra the lockie had charged for the over night gearbox .... the overnight gearbox would gave cost a tenner at the most... he point blank refused to return the money so we binned his gearbox and stuck in a brand new mechanism for 130 quid which she didn't need to lift to lock as it was a key operated latch and deadbolt ...
Treating a customer like a human being and not a cash cow is one of the most important things in the world tbh.
Another time the engineer was called to change locks on a vacant property... he had to gain entry first which was fairly easy as it was a Upvc door on the front and wooden door on the back with a mortise lock and nightlatch.
He gets in... changes the cylinder no issue on the back door he starts to remove the deadbolt... feels a bit creepy in this house he thinks... smells odd too... 10 minutes into the job he realises what was wrong... the house is covered and I mean covered in lice... you could literately see the carpet moving... he gets the locks changed and vacated the property... rings us up and tells me not to wait at the office he's going home to de-lice
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I appreciate you are in the trade yourself. However, telling us that there's no money in it, and it's a dying trade, in the same post that you tell us that locksmiths are out (probably as you type these posts telling us there's no money in it) charging 400 quid for a quick lock change that costs a couple of quid in materials doesn't exactly make your point.
Locksmithing isn't dying, it's just evolved.
Nobody cares if you are the most skilled locksmith in the world, with an encyclopedic knowledge of locks. All they know is they are locked out, and want to get in. You can show off your amazing non destructive entry, and I'm sure it's impressive. However, if the cylinder costs a couple of quid, drill the damn thing out and crack on to the next job. Having obsolete skills and moaning that nobody is willing to pay for them isn't a way to make money.
Locksmithing isn't dying, it's just evolved.
Nobody cares if you are the most skilled locksmith in the world, with an encyclopedic knowledge of locks. All they know is they are locked out, and want to get in. You can show off your amazing non destructive entry, and I'm sure it's impressive. However, if the cylinder costs a couple of quid, drill the damn thing out and crack on to the next job. Having obsolete skills and moaning that nobody is willing to pay for them isn't a way to make money.
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- Original Poster
- #23
I haven't paid anyone 30k yet im currently self employed and I worked very hard for my money. So believe me I won't be handing out money without doing any research. I appreciate your words it has raised a few questions of my own which I would like to raise with Lockrite to help me with my decision.
Surely, you must be wondering how there are 60 plus lockrite franchisees.
Surely, you must be wondering how there are 60 plus lockrite franchisees.
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If I was buying into any franchise, I would expect a consistent level of service.
YOU will be trading as LockRite, or whoever.
If one of your fellow franchisee's is going round doing shoddy work, or walking away from job's because they're incompetent, it is not the franchisee who look's bad, it's the entire LockRite brand.
Your friend may be doing work for Sainsbury's in his area, but it might not be a national roll out.
Speaking with my friend, I'd agree with everything @Haunted Worlds says...
There are locksmiths who will come and wreck your door and locks, drilling away with no idea, and then sell you an overpriced lock, and there are those who will come with a toolkit, and spend 30mins opening a door so you can recover your keys from the dining room table for a modest cost.
My friend has found some niche little markets, doing specialist work other locksmiths can't do, much like HW said.
YOU will be trading as LockRite, or whoever.
If one of your fellow franchisee's is going round doing shoddy work, or walking away from job's because they're incompetent, it is not the franchisee who look's bad, it's the entire LockRite brand.
Your friend may be doing work for Sainsbury's in his area, but it might not be a national roll out.
Speaking with my friend, I'd agree with everything @Haunted Worlds says...
There are locksmiths who will come and wreck your door and locks, drilling away with no idea, and then sell you an overpriced lock, and there are those who will come with a toolkit, and spend 30mins opening a door so you can recover your keys from the dining room table for a modest cost.
My friend has found some niche little markets, doing specialist work other locksmiths can't do, much like HW said.
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I'm not saying the guy should buy the franchise, completely the opposite. All i'm saying is that there is good money to be made as a locksmith. I don't know exactly how many locksmith clients I've had, but it would probably be between 20 and 30. I didn't have any problems helping any of them make decent money though. Yes we found similar problems to the ones you describe, but it's not difficult to work around it. That's basically why I don't see the value in a franchise.Fine,
OK no worries - I'll back out, I clearly have no idea what I'm talking about... Let the OP lose his £30k it's not my problem, it's not my money - I obviously have no idea how much money he'll lose because I don't know the industry at all.
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Root 66 Woodshop
I know I said if was going to walk away from the thread but your post has made want to reply.
It' not lockrite who you want to raise the questions with... what you need to do is do some hard graft research online about the industry... all they want is your 30k and they'l
Reel you in any way they can tbh.
https://www.muscletalk.co.uk/m/tm.aspx?m=2608603
Have a nosey through this one thread... this chap is a proper diamond very helpful (strongman equipment) an old timer MLA member and someone that should be listened too...
As I've said a franchise is not what you need if you're seriously thinking of the trade... it will take you a good 4-5 years to see your investment back and to be quite frank I think they'e taking the mick when they say you get you're own area... seriously in the locksmithing trade there really is no such thing... we cover Manchester and the whole of the North West yet we still get enquiries outside the area simply because of our standards and customer service... in fact our engineer is in Leeds this week opening a vault safe and next week he's in Carlisle installing a master suite.
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