Local Business Website

Morning all.

I have an idea for a part-time local business (probably within a 50 mile radius). The target is people who are thinking about selling their cars privately (rather than through a dealer or trader). I’ve don’t know if it’s a good idea or not, but I’ve created a small site to test it. www.advertisemycar.co.uk All comments are welcome and I’m particularly interested in whether the site explains the concept clearly. Thanks in advance.
 

Paul Norman

Free Member
Apr 8, 2010
4,102
1,538
Torrevieja
Obviously, the idea of selling privately and getting better than you would for a part exchange is the mainstay of Autotrader, who have for years dominated this space nationally.

To work locally is a nice idea, but you are still going to have to compete with Autotrader. And with We Buy any Car. And various other players in this field.

The key is not your claim that they might get 15% better than a part exchange deal - hard to prove, as sometimes dealers offer strong money to get used stock - but your ability to get traffic on the site, and hence results. You will need to put a lot of effort - and probably some cash - into getting local awareness of your site.

That is not impossible. But it will require a BIG push, because at the moment, if I pop to any of the above, or even to my dealers, I have my car gone more or less immediately, and that might be worth more than the hassle of the potential extra money.

I have spent a long time in the motor trade. And the 'beat the part exchange rip off by selling privately' option does catch a crowd, even if I don't personally get it. Your challenge is to draw some of that crowd from other players already doing this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fagin2021
Upvote 0
Obviously, the idea of selling privately and getting better than you would for a part exchange is the mainstay of Autotrader, who have for years dominated this space nationally.

To work locally is a nice idea, but you are still going to have to compete with Autotrader. And with We Buy any Car. And various other players in this field.

The key is not your claim that they might get 15% better than a part exchange deal - hard to prove, as sometimes dealers offer strong money to get used stock - but your ability to get traffic on the site, and hence results. You will need to put a lot of effort - and probably some cash - into getting local awareness of your site.

That is not impossible. But it will require a BIG push, because at the moment, if I pop to any of the above, or even to my dealers, I have my car gone more or less immediately, and that might be worth more than the hassle of the potential extra money.

I have spent a long time in the motor trade. And the 'beat the part exchange rip off by selling privately' option does catch a crowd, even if I don't personally get it. Your challenge is to draw some of that crowd from other players already doing this.

I agree with what you say. I don't think it's necessarily an either/or with Autotrader as one doesn't exclude the other.

The things I noticed about Autotrader are...
1. The vast majority of Ads are trade ads - private sellers have to compete against them, as well as other private sellers.
2. Most of the ads - including the trade ones, are absolutely dire. Boring photos and a huge list of bullet point features repeated in every ad.

The key here is to attract those sellers who are willing to trade convenience for price - and make it easy for them to do so. As you say, the challenge is in getting local awareness.
 
Upvote 0
And, as I spent 25 years explaining to people in my group in the motor trade, getting good images of cars to sell is very, very important.

Trying to explain to them that a quick snap by the road side with a lamppost looking like it is sticking out the roof is not a good image took longer!
Exactly!
 
Upvote 0

Paul Carmen

Business Member
Business Listing
Jan 27, 2018
862
1
412
Newport Pagnell
insiteweb.co.uk
The site looks good and the explanatory info is sensible. We looked at something similar to this as a project this year, however, actually getting good quality adverts on site with proper images, good descriptions, service history detailed, along with any issues/damage is virtually impossible if left to private customers.

Having been involved in the trade in that past, and being a massive car nut who has recently bought two cars, and sold one, it's an absolute nightmare. Most dealers are pretty poor, but the amount of private adverts that don't list any relevant details is shocking.

One car I bought was semi collectible and relatively expensive, but the dealers often didn't know the history, or said it was immaculate and then when you enquire/view there are lots of problems, or service history is patchy, allegedly due to GDPR.

There was a guy up the road from me selling a 2016 Jaguar F Type R privately, when I contacted him (he had no interior images or service history listed, other than FSH), he couldn't provide the FSH details and wanted to send me a What's App video of the car, rather than specific pictures of the things I requested!

The second car was for our son, who recently passed his test after the delays caused by coronavirus, but despite having a decent budget for an up to 10 year old car, virtually all the private cars had such poor adverts that it was impossible to get any sense out of them. Any that were good in both price ranges went really quickly and often had been bought by traders!

The market has also changed massively, mainly due to the shift online accelerated by Covid, and millennials not wanting to buy privately, as they need finance and want a guarantee etc. The increases in used car pricing due to supply chain/chip availability has meant that this has sped up even more.

Sites like Cinch, Cazoo are doing well, as they have all this in place and a ready made supply chain behind them (BCA, WeBuyAnyCar etc). The other problem is that selling privately is a pain in the backside, with dreamers at the high end and "best price mate" idiots galore at the lower price ranges!

The online buying sites like Motorway and Cazoo are hoovering up much of the mainstream private stock, as I'm not sure you can get at least 15% more selling privately any more, often they offer or can get you a price similar to the lower/mid end of what selling privately will, so why bother with the hassle and time wasted selling yourself?

Expensive or exotic private stuff tends to be sold via high end dealers sale or return, or increasingly on Collecting Cars or Trade Classics in the UK. They have the advantage of amazing photography, properly written descriptions and full disclosure on servicing/issues etc, plus the auction element means that good prices are achieved most of the time.

Having said all that, if you can offer a site that that does pull together excellent descriptions, full service info and great detailed images (I think you'd need to do all this for most private customers), and you'd need to make sure that details are listed accurately (as they're not on Autotrader/eBay etc) you might have a really good USP for buyers. If you can bolt on finance, trustworthy servicing/inspection options and guarantees then millennials will likely use it too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fagin2021
Upvote 0
Thank you Paul, for your interesting response. What’s coming across is..

1. There’s always a percentage of car sellers wishing to sell privately.
2. The majority of them are bad at it – naff images, descriptions etc.

My proposition is to do the work for them (photos, video, description). They can then use the printed stuff, media and web page to..

1. Promote the vehicle locally themselves, and nationally on free sites (Facebook, Gumtree etc).
2. Use the media for ads on Autotrader or other online car-sales sites.
3. Take out a classified ad’ with a link to their web page.

The unknown is whether a car seller will believe the modest cost can produce a return that’s worth the extra effort. Fortunately, the math’s isn’t hard.

The same principles as used on the site can be applied to many other high-value items – vans, campervans, caravans, holiday-cottages and so on.
 
Upvote 0

Paul Carmen

Business Member
Business Listing
Jan 27, 2018
862
1
412
Newport Pagnell
insiteweb.co.uk
Thank you Paul, for your interesting response. What’s coming across is..

1. There’s always a percentage of car sellers wishing to sell privately.
2. The majority of them are bad at it – naff images, descriptions etc.
Sorry for the long initial response, this is another one!

Although I agree with you that most private ads are very poor, there's a large number of factors that meant our analysis showed this market is shrinking. Plus, the area you can add value in is small and being eroded by dealer supply services designed to cherry pick the best cars from the private market. It will come down to whether the cost of your services and attracting the right customer is feasible.

As an example, the number of private sellers on Autotrader is small, has historically been less than 10% for quite a long time, it currently stands at 6.9% on Autotrader today. It's mostly at the bottom end of the market too, so as you say, many private cars are on free sites like Gumtree, Facebook, or low cost sites like eBay.

Much of what's for sale on those sites is in poor condition; e.g. lots of damage, mechanical issues, high mileage, missing or no service history etc. These cars sell cheaply and sellers don't want good photos and lots of detail, as they're trying to avoid talking about or showing the issues if they can. For these people they'd never pay for a service like yours.

For better quality cars, you'd have to write the descriptions to stand out, highlighting the good/bad and detailing service history/documentation, as that's what buyers want if they're going to pay strong money for a car privately. Can you make money and get people to pay for that as service on top of taking photographs?

The final sticking point is that dealers are now prepared to pay very good money for these cars too. It used to be hard for private cars, other than part ex, to get in to the dealer network, and WEBAC offered low valuations as they went to auction.

That's not such an issue now, Cazoo and Motorway offer strong private sale values for good cars often, so WEBAC have followed suit in many cases and now sell direct via Cinch. I sold a car to a dealer on Motorway recently that would have got £7k-£7.5k in top condition privately, however it needed new front tyres, the bonnet painted and a service soon to achieve that sort of value (it had FSH & was very good other than that), it would have cost £650 to £750 to do the work. The dealer paid £6.5k on a £6k estimate (with all issues listed) via Motorway, as they can retail it for £8.5k-£9k after doing the work...

It's car dependent to an extent, with better prices paid for more popular models. Just to check we weren't going mad when we reviewed it earlier this year, I did a quick check now on Autotrader, as I'm looking for a car to replace our aging mini. A 2016 MINI Hatch 1.5 Cooper, with 2 owners, 34k miles, up for sale for £10k exactly (Autotrader private guide is £10,150, dealer £11k-£12k). Motorway expect to get you £9,950 from a dealer (they often get more), Cazoo offering £10,700 to buy it now haggle free! Why would you ever sell that car privately for £10k?

So the question is, with Cazoo, Cinch, WEBAC and Motorway all having significant backing and all three advertising heavily on the TV/internet, can you attract the right customer demographic and right cars, plus help the customer sell their cars at a high enough price to make this work?
 
Upvote 0

AllUpHere

Free Member
  • Business Listing
    Jun 30, 2014
    4,074
    1,684
    It's a 'bottom of the barrel' market.

    Completely agree with everything @Paul Carmen has mentioned above. People buying and selling privately are usually buying and selling tat.

    Paul mentioned looking at a Jaguar F-type; when I bought mine there was a couple on autotrader either from private sellers or small independent dealers. Prices were only about 3 or 4 grand less than main dealer prices. I was never going to take a chance on a private sale when I could have all the peace of mind, backup and warranty of a main dealer purchase for only an additional 5 % (give or take).

    I haven't sold a car privately for years, and know very few people who have. We even buy our little cheap runabouts from main dealers these days.

    Whilst I used to enjoy the thrill of trying to find exactly what I wanted privately, having to crawl all over it looking for problems whilst wondering where the nearest phone box was so I could call HPI and do a quick check, those days are gone.
     
    Upvote 0

    UKSBD

    Moderator
  • Dec 30, 2005
    13,026
    1
    2,828
    There are more and more white label "we buy any car" type sites appearing now, which will make things like this harder and harder.

    Best bet is targeting top end high price vehicles anything else people won't bother as it's too easy to sell cars with no hassle now.
     
    Upvote 0
    Sorry for the long initial response, this is another one!

    Although I agree with you that most private ads are very poor, there's a large number of factors that meant our analysis showed this market is shrinking. Plus, the area you can add value in is small and being eroded by dealer supply services designed to cherry pick the best cars from the private market. It will come down to whether the cost of your services and attracting the right customer is feasible.

    As an example, the number of private sellers on Autotrader is small, has historically been less than 10% for quite a long time, it currently stands at 6.9% on Autotrader today. It's mostly at the bottom end of the market too, so as you say, many private cars are on free sites like Gumtree, Facebook, or low cost sites like eBay.

    Much of what's for sale on those sites is in poor condition; e.g. lots of damage, mechanical issues, high mileage, missing or no service history etc. These cars sell cheaply and sellers don't want good photos and lots of detail, as they're trying to avoid talking about or showing the issues if they can. For these people they'd never pay for a service like yours.

    For better quality cars, you'd have to write the descriptions to stand out, highlighting the good/bad and detailing service history/documentation, as that's what buyers want if they're going to pay strong money for a car privately. Can you make money and get people to pay for that as service on top of taking photographs?

    The final sticking point is that dealers are now prepared to pay very good money for these cars too. It used to be hard for private cars, other than part ex, to get in to the dealer network, and WEBAC offered low valuations as they went to auction.

    That's not such an issue now, Cazoo and Motorway offer strong private sale values for good cars often, so WEBAC have followed suit in many cases and now sell direct via Cinch. I sold a car to a dealer on Motorway recently that would have got £7k-£7.5k in top condition privately, however it needed new front tyres, the bonnet painted and a service soon to achieve that sort of value (it had FSH & was very good other than that), it would have cost £650 to £750 to do the work. The dealer paid £6.5k on a £6k estimate (with all issues listed) via Motorway, as they can retail it for £8.5k-£9k after doing the work...

    It's car dependent to an extent, with better prices paid for more popular models. Just to check we weren't going mad when we reviewed it earlier this year, I did a quick check now on Autotrader, as I'm looking for a car to replace our aging mini. A 2016 MINI Hatch 1.5 Cooper, with 2 owners, 34k miles, up for sale for £10k exactly (Autotrader private guide is £10,150, dealer £11k-£12k). Motorway expect to get you £9,950 from a dealer (they often get more), Cazoo offering £10,700 to buy it now haggle free! Why would you ever sell that car privately for £10k?

    So the question is, with Cazoo, Cinch, WEBAC and Motorway all having significant backing and all three advertising heavily on the TV/internet, can you attract the right customer demographic and right cars, plus help the customer sell their cars at a high enough price to make this work?

    A useful analysis – and therein may lie the opportunity, because most individuals won’t perform an analysis – they’ll rely on the old “everyone knows”.

    I’ll wager that whatever the reality, the majority believe that selling their car privately will net them more cash than part-exchanging or selling to the trade. They’ve been told this time and again, by people including WBAC, so why shouldn’t they believe it. “Everyone knows”.

    All I’m doing is re-enforcing that perception and relieving them of the hard work.

    The answer to your question in the last paragraph is... I don’t know. But it’s costing me almost nothing to find out. Fortunately, I don't need it to pay the bills!
     
    Upvote 0

    Alan

    Free Member
  • Aug 16, 2011
    7,089
    1,974
    To be honest, at those prices I would want a money back guarantee. In fact I would only want to pay when I had the sale.

    For private local sales, Facebook marketplace is the current place to go. No costs and snaps by mobile make it actually look like a genuine private sale :)
     
    Upvote 0

    DefinitelyMaybeUK

    Free Member
    Jan 12, 2021
    297
    72
    On the fence as to whether it's viable, but an observation on the "BMW real example" is you didn't mention if the car did sell at the (higher than dealer) price (a key point perhaps) and if it did, you'd be looking at a ~45% increase on the figures provided, so far more than the 15% you give (i.e you could of highlighted this more). On the flip side, you quoted Autotrader as the seller and their top package price for that selling range (below 10k) is £74.95 (until sold), so while it's obvious you'd do a superb job on the video, if a buyer could sell the same car for half your fee then why wouldn't he? Would it sell quicker? Does Autotrader have some business rate deal where you could promote there too as part of your package using your video services?
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Fagin2021
    Upvote 0

    Lucan Unlordly

    Free Member
    Feb 24, 2009
    3,961
    994
    My initial reservations...

    A seller living on the edge of the 50 mile radius has to drive to a set location to have their vehicle videoed. That could take considerable time and planning in some areas. Rather like a mid afternoon Dentist appointment when the time either side is effectively written off.

    For the car to appeal to passers by it will need to be kept clean all the time.
     
    Upvote 0
    On the fence as to whether it's viable, but an observation on the "BMW real example" is you didn't mention if the car did sell at the (higher than dealer) price (a key point perhaps) and if it did, you'd be looking at a ~45% increase on the figures provided, so far more than the 15% you give (i.e you could of highlighted this more). On the flip side, you quoted Autotrader as the seller and their top package price for that selling range (below 10k) is £74.95 (until sold), so while it's obvious you'd do a superb job on the video, if a buyer could sell the same car for half your fee then why wouldn't he? Would it sell quicker? Does Autotrader have some business rate deal where you could promote there too as part of your package using your video services?

    Thank you for having a detailed look at the site – I appreciate it.

    You’ve raised some good points, so let me respond ...

    I don’t know how much the BMW example actually sold for – not being privy to the details. It was probably less than the asking price but well above the trade offers. I’ve used the 15% figure because this seemed to me a realistic percentage – more for some, less for others – and not overpromising to the point of incredulity.

    For any potential customer the percentage calculation is very simple. If you have a car to sell for say, £6000, you’d only need a 3%-4% gain from a private sale to cover the fee. The greater the value the lower the percentage and vice-versa. Of course, you have to do more work selling, so you’re probably looking at 10% plus to make it worth the effort.

    Can you do it yourself on Autotrader (£80) or Facebook (free). Of course you can. Will the photographs, video (if any), and description you provide be better? Not from what I’ve seen on these sites (even from the trade). Can you use the media I create to complement your other advertising? Yes. Will it result in a quicker, more lucrative sale? Only the customer can decide!

    As regards the viability of the idea – I mentioned in the OP that I’m looking at it just as a part-time local business. If it doesn’t fly I don’t have to put the cat on half-rations.
     
    Upvote 0
    My initial reservations...

    A seller living on the edge of the 50 mile radius has to drive to a set location to have their vehicle videoed. That could take considerable time and planning in some areas. Rather like a mid afternoon Dentist appointment when the time either side is effectively written off.

    For the car to appeal to passers by it will need to be kept clean all the time.

    Possibly, possibly - though where I live an up to 50 mile drive is quite pleasant. As I've said all along, it's a trade-off between money and convenience. That calculation can only be done by the customer and will vary from person to person.

    What sparked the idea in the first place was driving around and seeing lots of vehicles with hand-written 'For Sale' signs on the windscreen.
     
    Upvote 0

    UKSBD

    Moderator
  • Dec 30, 2005
    13,026
    1
    2,828
    For any potential customer the percentage calculation is very simple. If you have a car to sell for say, £6000, you’d only need a 3%-4% gain from a private sale to cover the fee.

    The gain and loss would be irrelevant to a lot of people if time and hassle were involved

    Personally, if a dealer offered me £8k for a car there and then, but it was possible I could get £8300 for it if I tried to sell it privately, I would take the dealers offer every time.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: fisicx
    Upvote 0
    The gain and loss would be irrelevant to a lot of people if time and hassle were involved
    And your evidence for this is ?
    Personally, if a dealer offered me £8k for a car there and then, but it was possible I could get £8300 for it if I tried to sell it privately, I would take the dealers offer every time.
    I've never found a sample of one a sound basis for making a judgement.
     
    Upvote 0

    AllUpHere

    Free Member
  • Business Listing
    Jun 30, 2014
    4,074
    1,684
    And your evidence for this is ?

    I've never found a sample of one a sound basis for making a judgement.
    Whilst it would be wise to test the theory, the theory agrees with @UKSBD . Take anchoring as an example, nobody is going to care about a few hundred quid when they've anchored their thoughts around many thousands of pounds.
     
    Upvote 0

    DefinitelyMaybeUK

    Free Member
    Jan 12, 2021
    297
    72
    Will it result in a quicker, more lucrative sale? Only the customer can decide!
    Perhaps a couple more (varied price) examples would be needed. Of course, selling examples from your own site would be best, but catch 22. Maybe have an introductory offer on your site to get some real <del>punters</del> customers in and so use their (hopeful) sales to kick the ball rolling?
     
    Upvote 0
    Whilst it would be wise to test the theory, the theory agrees with @UKSBD . Take anchoring as an example, nobody is going to care about a few hundred quid when they've anchored their thoughts around many thousands of pounds.
    I actually agree with @UKSBD on the figures he's using. But supposing instead of £8,300 it was £20,000. Would it be worth the hassle then? Or £15,000? or £12,000? or £10,000? or £8,001? The point is that somewhere on the scale there is a crossover point - and that point will vary with the seller and the value. It will also vary with different peoples' perception of the differential between trade and private. As you say, testing is the only way to find out.
     
    Upvote 0
    Perhaps a couple more (varied price) examples would be needed. Of course, selling examples from your own site would be best, but catch 22. Maybe have an introductory offer on your site to get some real <del>punters</del> customers in and so use their (hopeful) sales to kick the ball rolling?
    Thank you again for your suggestions. You are an island of positive thought in a sea of negativity! (Actually, I don't mind negativity. It focuses the mind).
     
    Upvote 0

    AllUpHere

    Free Member
  • Business Listing
    Jun 30, 2014
    4,074
    1,684
    Thank you again for your suggestions. You are an island of positive thought in a sea of negativity! (Actually, I don't mind negativity. It focuses the mind).
    Nobody is being negative, just pointed out the flaws in the plan. Years ago I would have said it was a great idea. Over the last couple of years however, the market has changed in a way that makes the idea pretty much obsolete. Dealers are buying cars left, right and centre, and giving strong money for them. My brother had a letter from a dealership from which he had bought a car 2 years previously, offering him 42,000 for it. He bought if for 44. He sold it, and the very next day it was on their website for 46k (give or take a fiver). There is no need to go through the hassle of selling a car privately these days.
     
    Upvote 0
    Nobody is being negative, just pointed out the flaws in the plan. Years ago I would have said it was a great idea. Over the last couple of years however, the market has changed in a way that makes the idea pretty much obsolete. Dealers are buying cars left, right and centre, and giving strong money for them. My brother had a letter from a dealership from which he had bought a car 2 years previously, offering him 42,000 for it. He bought if for 44. He sold it, and the very next day it was on their website for 46k (give or take a fiver). There is no need to go through the hassle of selling a car privately these days.
    Point taken.:)
     
    Upvote 0

    UKSBD

    Moderator
  • Dec 30, 2005
    13,026
    1
    2,828
    Over the last couple of years however, the market has changed in a way that makes the idea pretty much obsolete. Dealers are buying cars left, right and centre, and giving strong money for them.

    The way of doing it is so much simpler too.
    You see the enter reg, get car deals, get price functions more and more now.

    I assume it's just one or 2 companies providing these systems and white labelling it to the thousands of car dealers, much like leasing sites driven by the same databases and platforms.

    Dealers are setting up separate web sites now just using these sell you car platforms
     
    Upvote 0

    Lucan Unlordly

    Free Member
    Feb 24, 2009
    3,961
    994
    Possibly, possibly - though where I live an up to 50 mile drive is quite pleasant. As I've said all along, it's a trade-off between money and convenience. That calculation can only be done by the customer and will vary from person to person.

    What sparked the idea in the first place was driving around and seeing lots of vehicles with hand-written 'For Sale' signs on the windscreen.

    I think there's another angle (and I want 10% if you go with it;)).

    People who sell their own cars by putting a note on the windscreen may be doing plenty of local miles or none at all with little idea of response, simply hoping that the right person comes along at the right time.

    Why not develop your site along Autotrader lines, let the sellers upload details and images and you supply them with QR coded magnetics and or a board to go in the window linked to their listing.

    A sort of more professional card in window. £50 all in, undercut the competition - leave the dealers out of it - jobs a goodun:)
     
    Upvote 0

    Latest Articles