Liz Truss PM - Gone Within a Year?

[MBE2017]

In other words, it's all Boris' fault!

Plus all those politicians and civil servants who colluded with the EU, their negotiators and did their best to undermine it from day one.

The UK negotiated terribly, agreed to many things that should never have been agreed, and should ditch the whole agreement and start again.

Once we find someone with half a brain who can negotiate, so the chance of this happening is slim.

 

[thetiger2015]

The UK negotiated terribly, agreed to many things that should never have been agreed, and should ditch the whole agreement and start again.

Why would the EU agree to any more negotiation? The UK has had a few years to sort itself out and negotiate the final bits and bobs. Apparently, we need to start all over again? Why? We've had our chance, the EU will only open negotiations if they're going to get more, they won't accept less and we're now a threat to their markets. They have 20 odd member states to look after, they're not going to negotiate with a country that's left the Whatsapp group and is now demanding to be allowed to see all the Whatsapp messages without contributing to the administrative cost.

We were told we were getting the cake. We've ended up with the crumbs.

 

[Newchodge]

England has always had a strange relationship with the rest of Europe - as if the UK was not really a part of Europe at all. The facts about imports and exports and career opportunities just get ignored by most of the UK population - that attitude really is quite strange.

Is that, perhaps, because most English people don't speak a foreign language, have only been abroad to places that are full of hotels containing English people, and have never, really, had a conversation with someone from Europe?

 

[Newchodge]

IF

The UK negotiated terribly, agreed to many things that should never have been agreed, and should ditch the whole agreement and start again.

Why would it have been necessary for

politicians and civil servants who colluded with the EU, their negotiators and did their best to undermine it from day one.

We did it to ourselves. We didn't need, or, I think, get any help.

 

[MBE2017]

Why would the EU agree to any more negotiation?

Simple, it would be in their interests as well as our own. If one side finds it has a bad deal nothing wrong in terminating such a deal, it has been done throughout history.

Too many think the EU hold all the cards, they do not. Anyway, only time will see how it gets sorted, be it re negotiation, application to re join, go totally without a deal or a different spin.

 

[Bob Morgan]

No - it's the fault of all the numpties that thought that a man who has been fired from every position he has ever held and has a proven track record for dishonesty, foolishness and for being totally untrustworthy was somehow fit to be prime minister.

The Goebbels Effect!

 

[IanSuth]

Simple, it would be in their interests as well as our own. If one side finds it has a bad deal nothing wrong in terminating such a deal, it has been done throughout history.

Too many think the EU hold all the cards, they do not. Anyway, only time will see how it gets sorted, be it re negotiation, application to re join, go totally without a deal or a different spin.

What would you want from a negotiation to fit your needs and what would you give

Would you want SM membership CU, Freedom of movement, membership of Horizon, Euratom ?

What membership fee would you pay for the bits you want ?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Is that, perhaps, because most English people don't speak a foreign language, have only been abroad to places that are full of hotels containing English people, and have never, really, had a conversation with someone from Europe?

That's not the reason, you are so blinkered and so left wing you border on a communist,.

Every nation sticks in groups there is nothing new in that, the romans never mixed on a daily basis with the nationals, the brits helped build India yet remained in groups, the Indian's and Pakistanis people in the UK tend to live in close proximity and share old values just the same as there are few US Americans, but lots of Irish Americans, Italian Americans and so on around the world

 

[Bob Morgan]

That reminds me of a conversation I once had with one of the Road Men on the Isle of Jura. He told me that he had once visited the South of England - Newcastle!

 

[Newchodge]

That's not the reason, you are so blinkered and so left wing you border on a communist,.

Every nation sticks in groups there is nothing new in that, the romans never mixed on a daily basis with the nationals, the brits helped build India yet remained in groups, the Indian's and Pakistanis people in the UK tend to live in close proximity and share old values just the same as there are few US Americans, but lots of Irish Americans, Italian Americans and so on around the world

Actually the roamns integrated to a huge extent with the people whose lands they invaded.

 

[IanSuth]

That's not the reason, you are so blinkered and so left wing you border on a communist,.

Every nation sticks in groups there is nothing new in that, the romans never mixed on a daily basis with the nationals, the brits helped build India yet remained in groups, the Indian's and Pakistanis people in the UK tend to live in close proximity and share old values just the same as there are few US Americans, but lots of Irish Americans, Italian Americans and so on around the world

Actually your bit re Romans isnt true

In most places the Romans went out of their way to try and do things like say "oh your god X is the same as our god Y" below the top of the admin tree they tended to get local client leaders to carry on running things just with new Roman names. Within not very long it was hard to tell "Roman romans" from local romans. They raised armies locally but sent them to other provinces as Auxiliary legions, so we had Syrians, Belgium's, Bulgarians, French and Dutch auxiliaries here and the Brits were sent as far as the Danube, N.Africa and Syria.

When a Roman Legionary (who originally had to be Roman citizens which meant father was a citizen and mother at least was free with the right to contract into a roman marriage) had finished there 20 years in contract they generally stayed at the last place they were posted for their 5 years as a reservist and were then given a plot of land (usually just outside the camp walls) where they set up with their usually local wife they had acquired and gradually formed all the towns/cities we have today with Chester or Cester at the end of them.

The whole way the Roman Empire grew was by persuading people they took over that they would be better as a part of them and the chiefs got to keep their privileges (if they didnt kick up a fuss and collected/passed on the taxes) the fighting was much less than the films would have you believe

I did an OLevel in Class Civ shared a house at uni with an Archaeologist and go to the dig at Silchester every summer which is a really well preserved roman town just outside Reading that was basically gradually abandoned in favour of other local Christian sites at the end of the empire so is really well preserved

 

[Bob Morgan]

Actually your bit re Romans isnt true

In most places the Romans went out of their way to try and do things like say "oh your god X is the same as our god Y" below the top of the admin tree they tended to get local client leaders to carry on running things just with new Roman names. Within not very long it was hard to tell "Roman romans" from local romans. They raised armies locally but sent them to other provinces as Auxiliary legions, so we had Syrians, Belgium's, Bulgarians, French and Dutch auxiliaries here and the Brits were sent as far as the Danube, N.Africa and Syria.

When a Roman Legionary (who originally had to be Roman citizens which meant father was a citizen and mother at least was free with the right to contract into a roman marriage) had finished there 20 years in contract they generally stayed at the last place they were posted for their 5 years as a reservist and were then given a plot of land (usually just outside the camp walls) where they set up with their usually local wife they had acquired and gradually formed all the towns/cities we have today with Chester or Cester at the end of them.

The whole way the Roman Empire grew was by persuading people they took over that they would be better as a part of them and the chiefs got to keep their privileges (if they didnt kick up a fuss and collected/passed on the taxes) the fighting was much less than the films would have you believe

I did an OLevel in Class Civ shared a house at uni with an Archaeologist and go to the dig at Silchester every summer which is a really well preserved roman town just outside Reading that was basically gradually abandoned in favour of other local Christian sites at the end of the empire so is really well preserved

The Romans let things slide a little in Bracknell - And, as for Sandhurst . . .

 

[Newchodge]

Actually your bit re Romans isnt true

In most places the Romans went out of their way to try and do things like say "oh your god X is the same as our god Y" below the top of the admin tree they tended to get local client leaders to carry on running things just with new Roman names. Within not very long it was hard to tell "Roman romans" from local romans. They raised armies locally but sent them to other provinces as Auxiliary legions, so we had Syrians, Belgium's, Bulgarians, French and Dutch auxiliaries here and the Brits were sent as far as the Danube, N.Africa and Syria.

When a Roman Legionary (who originally had to be Roman citizens which meant father was a citizen and mother at least was free with the right to contract into a roman marriage) had finished there 20 years in contract they generally stayed at the last place they were posted for their 5 years as a reservist and were then given a plot of land (usually just outside the camp walls) where they set up with their usually local wife they had acquired and gradually formed all the towns/cities we have today with Chester or Cester at the end of them.

The whole way the Roman Empire grew was by persuading people they took over that they would be better as a part of them and the chiefs got to keep their privileges (if they didnt kick up a fuss and collected/passed on the taxes) the fighting was much less than the films would have you believe

I did an OLevel in Class Civ shared a house at uni with an Archaeologist and go to the dig at Silchester every summer which is a really well preserved roman town just outside Reading that was basically gradually abandoned in favour of other local Christian sites at the end of the empire so is really well preserved

I was involved in an archaeological project based on Tarragona in Spain. Tarraco was the Roman capital of Hispania Tarraconensis and the preservation of Roman material is incredible. Spme modern shops and restaurants have glass oanels in the floor, with lighting to show the roman materials and foundations underneath.

 

[Bob Morgan]

Nothing compares with diving in the Islets of Langerhans

 

[IanSuth]

Nothing compares with diving in the Islets of Langerhans

Arent they the insulin producing bits of the pancreas ?

 

[Bob Morgan]

Arent they the insulin producing bits of the pancreas ?

Well spotted! I sometimes use it when people drone on about the Summer Season, who they met in Monte, and the Skiing in Gateshead - Sorry, Gstaad!

 

[IanSuth]

The Romans let things slide a little in Bracknell - And, as for Sandhurst . . .

I don't know - they have Caesars camp in Swinley Forest (that is not even Roman) and Gladiator was filmed quite locally.

I grew up just off Stane Street (A29) in Sussex so always had an interest, we used to get taken to Fishbourne (At the time it was thought Cogidubnus was the local chief who welcomed Caesar and became a Roman client king and built the huge villa complex there - a story since "refined")

 

[IanSuth]

Well spotted! I sometimes use it when people drone on about the Summer Season, who they met in Monte, and the Skiing in Gateshead - Sorry, Gstaad!

Wife's family are diabetics

 

[IanSuth]

I was involved in an archaeological project based on Tarragona in Spain. Tarraco was the Roman capital of Hispania Tarraconensis and the preservation of Roman material is incredible. Spme modern shops and restaurants have glass oanels in the floor, with lighting to show the roman materials and foundations underneath.

You may find this interesting - https://research.reading.ac.uk/silc...Life project was,at the University of Reading.

 

[Bob Morgan]

Wife's family are diabetics

So am I - Your point being?

 

[DontAsk]

I was involved in an archaeological project based on Tarragona in Spain. Tarraco was the Roman capital of Hispania Tarraconensis and the preservation of Roman material is incredible. Spme modern shops and restaurants have glass oanels in the floor, with lighting to show the roman materials and foundations underneath.

Sounds like Anhk Morpork.

 

[simon field]

I really wish that bitter little woman in Scotland (is she a Krankie?) would just shut the F up!

And the ‘opposition’, what are they doing now? Keep banging on about a GE, when they’ve already been told there won’t be one. What is wrong with these people?

 

[Clodbuster]

The electorate voted for a Member of Parliament for their area. - they were not voting for Boris.

 

[IanSuth]

So am I - Your point being?

why i knew about the islets of langerhan being in the pancreas

 

[The Byre]

Is that, perhaps, because most English people don't speak a foreign language, have only been abroad to places that are full of hotels containing English people, and have never, really, had a conversation with someone from Europe?

Probably - I don't know! I see and meet Scottish and Irish people everywhere and they are usually well-integrated into local cultures and there is a growing army of Americans, sick to their back teeth with life in the US, that have moved to Europe and for some reason, Germany in particular. (Not just GIs going native, but people who up-sticks for a well-paid job and decent health care, etc. Sometimes, it is whole families!)

There are of course, loads of English in France and Spain and given time, many seem to integrate very well.

But for me, the attitude you describe is mighty strange - my cousins are either French or German or both, my grandparents were German, Italian, Scottish and Russian. Everybody is multilingual and the idea of not being primarily European before one is French or Belgian or German or whatever is foreign to the way they live - commuting between France and Belgium, Germany and Italy, living in France and working in Germany - that sort of thing.

So why am I here? I live in a part of the UK that is extremely pleasant and where it is possible to do things that are hard or impossible in the SE of England because it is hopelessly overcrowded. There are still places in the UK that are close to being a paradise!

I could live like this in a few countries and all those countries have one thing in common. Portugal, Italy, France and the UK spring to mind - these are countries where it is extremely pleasant to be well-off. These are societies designed for the rich - low or no taxes, build (almost) what you like and where you like and just low pay for the locals. If I were to return to Germany, I could not live the way I do here because of strict planning laws and a 1001 other regulations that are beneficial for those who are working and renting properties, but mean that one can only build in built-up areas and hiring people costs real money.

Social countries on the other hand do make doing business easier. Selling goods and services to the general population is far easier when everybody has the money to pay for them. That is a hard fact of business life that the far right here in the UK just refuses to grasp - it is in our own interest to see that everybody gets a decent wage and is protected from poverty by proper and punctual healthcare and infirmity care.

It is not socialism to want your customers to be able to pay for the goods and services we have to offer. It is common sense!

 

[IanSuth]

The electorate voted for a Member of Parliament for their area. - they were not voting for Boris.

I think they would be better off saying "the people voted for manifesto x, if they are moving away from that then why not a GE" as that would actually be a bit truer to our parliamentary democracy. As you say, nobody should be voting for the pm they should be voting for who will be the best local representative for them

 

[DontAsk]

Did we have an election when Wilson was replaced, or Blair was replace? Many in Labour seem to have short memories.

Having said that, Rishi could be going the same way as Callaghan in a couple of years.

 

[Bob Morgan]

Did we have an election when Wilson was replaced, or Blair was replace? Many in Labour seem to have short memories.

Having said that, Rishi could be going the same way as Callaghan in a couple of years.

Couple of years? - Make that months

 

[UKSBD]

The cynics are saying it was a deliberate, honest mistake so she had a reason to resign and stab Truss in the back whilst doing so.

Looks like it worked

 

[Karimbo]

There was a political pundit on LBC (I didnt catch their name). But what they were saying is democracies around the world are in real trouble. 24 hour news, social media has turned politics into reality TV additional the fringes have got traction through their own channels.

I think social media has given us a more pure democracy is that every single person can vote any bloody way they want. But we have fringes who have gained traction, one the one side you have neo liberals like truss who beleive everything should be up to the free market, there should be no limits to capitalism and no safety net either. On the opposite spectrum you have those that beleive the masses should cowtow to rules that force us to adapt our lives and language to the 0.001% of the population who have gender identity issues.

I think those fringes just have an obsessive following and just get traction more than boring centre left and centre right politics and we're losing the middle ground. The silent majority are being drowned out.

 

[NickGrogan]

I really wish that bitter little woman in Scotland (is she a Krankie?) would just shut the F up!

And the ‘opposition’, what are they doing now? Keep banging on about a GE, when they’ve already been told there won’t be one. What is wrong with these people?

We had one a couple of years ago, I seem to remember that Labour did really badly.

 

[NickGrogan]

There was a political pundit on LBC (I didnt catch their name). But what they were saying is democracies around the world are in real trouble. 24 hour news, social media has turned politics into reality TV additional the fringes have got traction through their own channels.

I think social media has given us a more pure democracy is that every single person can vote any bloody way they want. But we have fringes who have gained traction, one the one side you have neo liberals like truss who beleive everything should be up to the free market, there should be no limits to capitalism and no safety net either. On the opposite spectrum you have those that beleive the masses should cowtow to rules that force us to adapt our lives and language to the 0.001% of the population who have gender identity issues.

I think those fringes just have an obsessive following and just get traction more than boring centre left and centre right politics and we're losing the middle ground. The silent majority are being drowned out.

Its always been the same

Nassem Talib 2016

"The most intolerant wins"

Karl Popper 1945

"Less well known [than other paradoxes] is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

Who was inspired by Plato (423BC)

 

[MBE2017]

Whoa, following my warning October 5th, Credit Suisse share have plunge today as they announce huge losses and a strategic restructuring program. This is after large drops already.

The bank, somehow, has managed to lose $4billion this last quarter alone! They are looking to lose 9000 jobs, shares down 18% today, Lehman 2.0?

 

[simon field]

I think that her tenure will be measured in Weeks and Days

Who’s tenure?