Limited Company - Can I do the accounts myself

johny2jags

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Aug 16, 2011
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We are a limited company - not a huge one but it does ok.

I am looking at bringing all the accounts in-house to save some money on accountants fees.

I've read lot's of different articles on what needs to be filed every year.

Is anybody able to give me a clear precise list of what needs to be filed every year for this? Just so I can get my head around it - the HMRC site sometimes talks in riddles and I'm struggling to find the info.

Also any info on what needs to be filed for me as a director and employee of the company?

I hope this isn't a silly question for my first post!
 

MyAccountantOnline

Business Member
Sep 24, 2008
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myaccountantonline.co.uk
We are a limited company - not a huge one but it does ok.

I am looking at bringing all the accounts in-house to save some money on accountants fees.

I've read lot's of different articles on what needs to be filed every year.

Is anybody able to give me a clear precise list of what needs to be filed every year for this? Just so I can get my head around it - the HMRC site sometimes talks in riddles and I'm struggling to find the info.

Also any info on what needs to be filed for me as a director and employee of the company?

I hope this isn't a silly question for my first post!

A bias reply here - yes you can, but with respect it's not easy for a non-accountant.

You need full accounts for HMRC, accounts, possibly abbreviated, for Companies House, a CT600 Corporation tax return for HMRC which has to be filed with iXBRL online with the accounts to HMRC, an annual return once a year for Companies House as well as company payroll and possibly directors Self Assessment tax returns.

You may be best preparing some really good accounting records and getting an accountant to do the technical bit. Good records do reduce accountancy fees.

Bear in mind the real cost of doing this yourself and that a good accountant should also be saving you tax.:)
 
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johny2jags

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Aug 16, 2011
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Thank you for the response!

I did think about this - last year the accountants bill went up by £400, without any prior warning and his statement was 'there was more work this year'.

I understand ltd company accounts are more expensive than if I were a sole trader.

I think I may invest in some better accounting software - in theory my accounts should be fairly simple - there arn't lots of small transactions, they are mostly all nice round figures as well.
 
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Dugdale

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Aug 16, 2011
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North West
Hi

As a Chartered accountant (Moore and Smalley) I am bound to say don't do it yourself but don't.

Its not as easy as it sounds. In addition to having to prepare accounts, tax comps and tax returns for HMRC and accounts for Co House, plus an annual return, and payroll forms, most of this has to be done online now. HMRC require everything in ixbrl. This is not easy to do and is very time consuming. It is possible though.

As the last post said, do a really good job at the book keeping and get the accountant to do the technical bit. Also, please remember that HMRC are doing far more investigations into returns now. Also there is a new penalty regime in place where you are looking at a likely 30% penalty on top of interest if they find something you have not declared correctly. You can minimise the penalty if you show you have not been careless. HMRC would not accept you have not been careless if you had not got professional advice on a company tax return.

hope this helps
 
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MyAccountantOnline

Business Member
Sep 24, 2008
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myaccountantonline.co.uk
Thank you for the response!

I did think about this - last year the accountants bill went up by £400, without any prior warning and his statement was 'there was more work this year'.

I understand ltd company accounts are more expensive than if I were a sole trader.

I think I may invest in some better accounting software - in theory my accounts should be fairly simple - there arn't lots of small transactions, they are mostly all nice round figures as well.

Personally I think an unexpected bill 'out of the blue' is unacceptable - if additional work is needed it should be explained first.

Why not contact your accountants and ask them how you can reduce your fees? Most good accountants will be more than happy to suggest things you can do which will reduce their workload and hence fees.
 
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I think I may invest in some better accounting software - in theory my accounts should be fairly simple - there arn't lots of small transactions, they are mostly all nice round figures as well.

First off, I'm not an accounant so no bias here :D

Software will allow you to keep your bookkeeping nice and tidy but don't confuse that with the ability to do year end accounts and returns.

I can do 'accounts' but still leave the year end stuff to my accountant as the penalties for getting it wrong far outweigh the cost of the accountant.

John
 
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MDG

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Jan 26, 2010
58
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I think you can do them yourself if your business is small and the accounts are fairly straightforward. We've done them ourselves for the last 2 years with no problems but we do qualify for the various small business exemptions and our accounts are pretty straightforward. I would caveat that whilst I'm not an accountant I do have some experience and have had some finance training in the past so am reasonably familiar with balance sheets, P&L statements, etc.

For simple accounts you can use the HMRC on line filing software which sorts out all the formatting, etc and it will also submit the accounts to Companies House for you as well.

Once the company grows and the accounts get more complex then I'd definately use an accountant. However, I think at least having a go yourself whilst the business is small and accounts are simple gives you a much better understanding of what you're actually paying an accountant to do and what you can do in terms of record keeping to make preparing the accounts easier.
 
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However, I think at least having a go yourself whilst the business is small and accounts are simple gives you a much better understanding of what you're actually paying an accountant to do and what you can do in terms of record keeping to make preparing the accounts easier.

Just completed my 4th year accounts. Years 2, 3 and 4 were easy peasy - year 1 on the other hand was a nightmare. The HMRC website, even though it's supposed to provide you with info for every eventuality, is written with accountants in mind. Once you've learned how to sift through the chaff to get to the info you need you'll fare a lot better. On the other hand I found phoning HMRC and talking to them provided a much better insight into what they actually wanted.

And even a visit from the VAT man late last year went without a hitch.

You can do it yourself, you just need to be organised and efficient.
 
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AWin

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Aug 2, 2011
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Oxfordshire
I am also a accountant so probably a slightly bias view but it depends on what grounds you want to prepare the items yourself.

If the decision is purely a financial one (ie saving of accountants fees) then of course it will be cheaper to prepare the items yourself. Both Companies House and HMRC have made online filing an easier task in the last few years and it is now much more practical to prepare the items yourself.

However if you employ an accountant to prepare the accounts and all tax returns you are not only passing over the hassle and responsbility of filing the items, you should also be getting tax advice of preparing everything the most tax efficient way based on your unique circumstance.

One of the most frustrating things about being an accountant is a client saying that their mate said in the pub that they no longer pay tax and they come up with a very complex and sometimes slightly dubious scheme of tax aviodance. These situations may be the answer for some individuals but everyone has different circumstances and different needs.

With all the HMRC and Co House filing systems they will let you file the items correctly but they suggest ways in which you could save tax in the long term.

Hope this helps
 
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MDG

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Jan 26, 2010
58
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Yep, agree there's a bit of a learning curve in the first year and subsequent years are easier.

When you're trying to run a business there's usually lots of calls on your time so it comes down to whether you've got the time and willingness to learn or whether you'd rather spend your time on other areas of the business and pay someone else to do the accounts.

Our business is quite seasonal so I find I can use the quiet times to do the accounts.
 
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Before I went Ltd. we did 99% of accounting in house (The wife :) ) then my accountant checked it over and submitted what was needed. Now that I am Ltd. she does 80% and he sorts out the extras involved with being Ltd.

(dont ask me its all greek)
 
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David Griffiths

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  • Jun 21, 2008
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    If the OP does decide to do the book keeping part themselves and therefore reducing the accountants fees, up to what point do they stop at to pass over to the accountant?

    Somewhere between piling the invoices into different brown paper bags and presenting a fully balanced and reconciled trial balance, with depreciation, prepayments and accruals. :)

    In other words, everybody is different.
     
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    T7production

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    Aug 17, 2011
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    Admittedly I can't count much past ten with any reliability, but it's amazing how much time accounts can soak up when you're doing them in house. I find for us the money spent on an accountant is well worthwhile purely for the time and hassle it saves. Plus they've the specialist knowledge that stops you paying over the odds on returns etc.
     
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    Matt01061983

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    Mar 25, 2011
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    I dont think it is worth spending the money on an accountant orginally. Use an accountant at a later date to ensure that as your business grows more complex the financial structures of the business are well managed. To do simple accounts I wouldn't pay for an accountant but then again I wouldn't risk it yourself either. There is a lot at stake if your get things wrong so I would make use of an easy to use cost effective software package. Make sure you look for a package that meets the needs of your business though as there are plenty around - check out compare software for business.co.uk its a good comparison site for small businesses looking for business software.
     
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    Scalloway

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    An accounts package will make it easier to do your year end accounts but there is still a hell of a lot you need to know to produce them up to Companies House and HMRC requirements.

    Ask yourself how long you would need to work to earn your accountants fee (which is tax deductible) and how much earnings you would lose in the time you spend trying to get it right.
     
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    Philip Hoyle

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    I dont think it is worth spending the money on an accountant orginally. Use an accountant at a later date to ensure that as your business grows more complex the financial structures of the business are well managed. To do simple accounts I wouldn't pay for an accountant but then again I wouldn't risk it yourself either. There is a lot at stake if your get things wrong so I would make use of an easy to use cost effective software package. Make sure you look for a package that meets the needs of your business though as there are plenty around - check out compare software for business.co.uk its a good comparison site for small businesses looking for business software.

    Some of my best tax refunds for clients, especially sole traders, have come from the start up period. Fine, I can't disagree that the accounts themselves can be simple in the first couple of years, but what about the tax side of things. OK, I hear you say "I've made little or no profit so the tax return shows no, or little, tax payable" - but that's completely missing the point of what tax refunds may have been available. Very few people know all the permutations for loss reliefs, fewer still realise there are different rules for loss reliefs between income tax, NIC and tax credits. Even fewer still know there are tax planning opportunities for chosing the "right" year end in the first trading period - no, not the simple one of chosing April 30 to defer some tax long term, but how about shortening the first period below a year so that losses get allocated into different tax years to maximise tax refund.

    One spectacular case was a lady who had just taken early retirement from a well paid job (higher rate tax), and started her own consultancy - she'd done her own first year accounts and drafted her own tax return showing no tax due, and I'd agreed to look over it all for her for a nominal fee, as she wanted peace of mind. I looked at it, and yes, it was all technically correct. I met with her and told her and she was pleased that she'd managed to do it herself. Then I dropped the bombshell that although it was right, if she'd done things differently, she could have a tax repayment of a couple of thousand more. The thing was that the first few months showed big losses where she was setting up (last six months of tax year), and lots of capital expenditure, then the remainder of the year (first six months of next tax year) showed decent profits - netting out to a modest profit for the first 12 months which she'd assumed to be the first accounting period. I showed her that if she prepared accounts for a shorter first period, they'd show a big loss, which could be offset against her 40% taxable earnings in earlier tax year, rather than against PA and BR profits in second tax year. Result was one happy client who then decided to pay for the accounts/returns to be re-done for that first year and has remained a happy client ever since.

    OK, I now this thread is about limited companies, but my point is relevant. How many firms start up as limiteds? Of those, how many would have been better off setting out as sole traders, to get better tax relief on initial losses (potentially at 40% with immediate refund) rather than eventually at 20% in years to come? For a business starting up relatively slowly, that may make losses in the first few months, it makes sense to delay incorporation and start as a sole trader/partnership and then convert to limited further down the line when profits warrant it (unless of course there are compelling reasons for limited from day one!).

    Far too many people just don't realise the power of even the simplest of tax planning. Threads like these just concentrate on the mechanics/technicalities of the book-keeping and accounts preparation. Of course, the average Joe Public can do their own books and accounts and can follow the HMRC guidance notes to complete the tax return, but what about the tax planning side of things? Accountants spend years learning their trade and know what "tricks" to look for in even the simplest business to maximise tax refunds and delay future tax liabilities.

    Even book-keeping isn't that simple - yes, as mentioned above, accounts packages can do a decent set of accounts, but they don't do it themselves - you need a human to input the right data in the right place - most packages just give the ability to enter "journals" to do this, but don't actually tell you what to do, when to do it, or how to do it. If you don't know how to prepare accounts properly, you just end up with a record of receipts and payments - that's not adequate for tax returns, you have to deal with depreciation, capital allowances, prepayments, accruals, debtors, creditors, amortisation, stocks, etc.

    So, yes, back to the original question, yes, of course, Joe Public can do his own. He'll have to do plenty of research on company law and tax law to do it, he'll have to understand accounting standards - OK there are pro-formas to help. But even if he achieves all that, he still won't know whether he's optimised his tax position. He may be happy with a tax bill of £1,000, but would he still be happy if he was told it could have been a refund of £2,000 instead if he'd used a decent accountant?
     
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