lease, help

[wlzls]

our rent is 600PCM+VAT

we relocate recently, and we had some goods still left in the unit. my last access to unit on 28th feb 2012, last week i went to the unit and found main gate lock has been replaced by landlord, and i contact him, he said that due to i didn't pay his rent on FEB and March, but he never trying to contact me about the rent.

now i can not gain access to the unit, and he sent me an email saying ' unpaid rent for February 2012 & March 2012 , three months notice period to terminate, insurance rent, legal & management costs relating to acting in the landlord’s interests and the costs of making the unit clean'

and he now ask for 5000 pounds in cash ( not the other payment method)

otherwise, he will send all our goods to auction



we are glading to pay any unpaid rent and also 3 month notice period rent, but he ask for 5000...

Please help!

 

[simon71]

Do you have any formal agreement for you letting the unit?

What were the terms of you relocating - did you give the landlord notice or did you move out perhaps because you knew you couldn't meet the rent?

It isn't uncommon for landlords to have the right to seize goods if their tenant defaults, or indeed to charge for "dilapidations", being an amount to put the premises back to there original standard. The question might be whether the landlord has acted unreasonably in some way or is charging too much for dilapidations (which they almost always try to do!).

Simon

 

[wlzls]

Simon, Thanks for your reply,

because we relocate to another city, so i only go to unit on weekend, and i got flue for 2 weeks..

the thing is he ask for far more than 5 months rent and also he ask for cash.

is that normal?

 

[wlzls]

and he never try to ring me or email me to chase the rent.

 

[simon71]

Do you have a written agreement with the landlord?

 

[wlzls]

yes, my copy is inside of the unit

 

[simon71]

Well I guess it comes down to what is on that agreement. Demanding cash from you is unusual but not in itself illegal. Unless your landlord is demanding something he is not lawfully entitled to and holding your goods as a ransom. That could be considered extortion.

If your landlord is a reasonable person, then he just wants his rent and perhaps something for his wasted time. If your goods that he is holding are worth less than the rent / notice you might agree you owe, then you are in a good position to negotiate that. It would be a pain for your landlord to auction your goods. He would rather your rent.

If your landlord is not reasonable, he may try to fleece you for every penny possible, whether or not it is allowed under your contract.

I would do the following, which is based on (1) trying to find an amicable settlement quickly and (2) being able to show that you have tried to settle if matters go further in the future.

If you can, I would offer (in writing) what you think is the right amount, subject to that being correct in your agreement. You should demand a copy of your agreement. If he won't negotiate then you should seek a solicitors advice, either to review your agreement or to look at alternative action if your landlord refuses to provide you with a copy of your agreement.

Simon

 

[wlzls]

hi, Simon

Thanks for your reply


I know even he auction my goods, he will not get more than 5000 quids.

because of the nature of my business, if they not in sets, they worth next to nothing..

but it worth approx 5000 for me.

i want to be friendly and pay his rent, but the way he doing this really made me unhappy.

why he didn't ring me instead of change the lock and seize the goods.

 

[wlzls]

and he ask more than he should get.

5 mths rent

600X1.2X5= 3600

he ask for 5000 cash..

i doubt he will give me a vat invoice if i pay cash

 

[arcon5]

The LLs tenant is 2 months behind in rent then suddenly moves without notice - if I was the LL I'd be seizing goods also as collateral tbh. It all looks very suspicious.

As far as the £5k is concerned, what size and condition is the unit in? After rent he's charging about £1250+vat, only you can determine how reasonable this is.

You can always pay via bank transfer, I doubt he'll return the money after receiving it

 

[simon71]

Hi wlzls,

As I mentioned before, it is not unusual for a landlord to place into an agreement the right to charge for "dilapidations" - effectively the right to charge the outgoing tenant for the cost of restoring the status of the premises.

As Arcon5 worked out, the landlord is charging you around £1250+vat to make good the premises. Think of it this way - if you had to pay someone to clear out the unit and make it as if you had never been there, would it cost about this? On this basis, you could decide whether the cost is reasonable.

You might come to the conclusion that the difference is of a level that it is not worth your time and stress arguing about. You have a business to run after-all.

I suspect the landlords view will be that he didn't need to contact you about the rent, because the agreement would say when you needed to pay it and it was up to you to make sure you paid it on time.

My suggestion is as above, to try and bring about an end to this as quickly as possible. It will just eat away at you and affect your business otherwise. The landlord may negotiate because he probably can't really be bothered to sell your goods (and he could still come after you for the balance anyway, assuming your written agreement is valid). So make that offer in writing as above, stipulating that it is in full and final settlement so he can't later claim anything from you.

Best of luck

Simon

 

[wlzls]

contact the guy (he is the financial manager of the company) who ask me for the cash (pound note cash)


i ask him if i can pay via bacs payment, he refused with the excuse (not safe to give you our sort code and account number)

it is very strange with this excuse, i afraid he will take all the cash i give to him in his own pocket.


any suggestion?

 

[arcon5]

contact the guy (he is the financial manager of the company) who ask me for the cash (pound note cash)


i ask him if i can pay via bacs payment, he refused with the excuse (not safe to give you our sort code and account number)

it is very strange with this excuse, i afraid he will take all the cash i give to him in his own pocket.


any suggestion?

What a load of tosh!

How do you usually pay?

 

[BeeDub]

contact the guy (he is the financial manager of the company) who ask me for the cash (pound note cash)


i ask him if i can pay via bacs payment, he refused with the excuse (not safe to give you our sort code and account number)

it is very strange with this excuse, i afraid he will take all the cash i give to him in his own pocket.


any suggestion?

Get that in writing, as surely then any court would see that you attempted to pay the debt but the LL was faulting. Not a legal expert, just applying common sense.

 

[deniser]

First, if he has changed the lock so you are locked out of your own premises this is treated by law as a repossession ie. termination of the lease by the landlord.

The date on which he changed the locks is the date your lease came to an end. You are not liable to pay rent beyond this date. You need to calculate how much rent you owe for the period between the last payment and the date the locks were changed plus interest, the rate of which will be prescribed in the lease.

A landlord is allowed to forfeit the lease for non payment of rent. He does not need to send out any rent demands because you know from the lease how much is payable and when.

It sounds as though you do not want the lease so the forfeiture is a good thing?

The law has either changed or is about to changed on the subject of distress. You will need to look it up or take legal advice but assuming the old law is still in force, a landlord, provided it was set out in the lease, had the right to seize your goods and sell them to pay money owed by you under the lease.

He has no right to demand an arbitrary sum.

It's not clear in this case whether or not he has exercised his remedy of distress. If he has not then, if it is just a case of forfeiture, he has to allow you a certain period of time - usually 7 days - to remove your possessions. Again, this is stipulated in your lease. If you do not then he can store them/sell them and charge you the cost.

Best thing to do is to go and see a solicitor with a copy of your lease and details of the last payments made to the landlord as soon as possible.

If he has repossessed legally there should be a notice on the premises. If he has done this illegally then you may have remedies against him.

You need to see a solicitor straight away.

 

[wlzls]

What a load of tosh!

How do you usually pay?

we normally pay via cheque

and payable to the company


and normally pay 2months or 3 months rent together


example


we will pay jan feb rent in the end of the feb via cheque

or jan feb march rent in the end of the feb


but these is not in lease agreement

lease agreement saying

we have to pay 5th of each calender month

but they never collect on time...

 

[wlzls]

First, if he has changed the lock so you are locked out of your own premises this is treated by law as a repossession ie. termination of the lease by the landlord.

The date on which he changed the locks is the date your lease came to an end. You are not liable to pay rent beyond this date. You need to calculate how much rent you owe for the period between the last payment and the date the locks were changed plus interest, the rate of which will be prescribed in the lease.

A landlord is allowed to forfeit the lease for non payment of rent. He does not need to send out any rent demands because you know from the lease how much is payable and when.

It sounds as though you do not want the lease so the forfeiture is a good thing?

The law has either changed or is about to changed on the subject of distress. You will need to look it up or take legal advice but assuming the old law is still in force, a landlord, provided it was set out in the lease, had the right to seize your goods and sell them to pay money owed by you under the lease.

He has no right to demand an arbitrary sum.

It's not clear in this case whether or not he has exercised his remedy of distress. If he has not then, if it is just a case of forfeiture, he has to allow you a certain period of time - usually 7 days - to remove your possessions. Again, this is stipulated in your lease. If you do not then he can store them/sell them and charge you the cost.

Best thing to do is to go and see a solicitor with a copy of your lease and details of the last payments made to the landlord as soon as possible.

If he has repossessed legally there should be a notice on the premises. If he has done this illegally then you may have remedies against him.

You need to see a solicitor straight away.

now , financial director of the company ask me to pay cash, he saying he will not accept the other payment method ( even bacs payment)

 

[10032012]

It seems an odd situation to refuse the default methods of payments but under the law as I understand it you must pay debt off by any possible method (including cash) - this even extends to something as extreme as no right to "change": a taxi journey which costs £28 where the drivers doesn't have or claims not to have change, you are obligated to pay the driver your sole paper money (as in this example) a £50 note. Refusing is theft - an IOU note isn't sufficient.

I would personally, if the landlord hasn't sent you notice, although his demands might appear that the lease has terminated - obviously depends on the content of the lease - gain entry to the property by paying for a locksmith to give you entry to the property - although a little dodgy.

deniser is correct regarding repossession but for me it depends on whether the issue solely around the £5000 demands in cash OR more so the contents inside that you cannot access (perhaps equipment, stock, documents, customer records)

Then if you can sell the contents inside, and ensure any company and customer data is safe, pay off the £5000 (you might want a witness present) and do away with this unprofessional landlord.

 

[wlzls]

do i have to pay one off 5000 pounds

or i can pay what i owe which is 2 months rent

and pay the rest monthly

 

[wlzls]

once i realize i owe him 1 and 15 days rent , i told him,i am glad to pay the rent i owe and ask him to scan the lease contract (my copy inside the unit) and he only scan half of the lease and ask for 5000 pounds cash 2 days ago and today over the phone he ask for 4000+vat cash only.

 

[Bormaley]

that's seriously

 

[wlzls]

yesterday i asked him for a specific cost what is 4000+VAT for

and today, he sent me a bill with add up to 6800 pounds


change everyday

 

[deniser]

Go and see a solicitor who will tell you exactly what you owe and what to do.