Keywords

[Chris34]

Hi all,

I am new to all this keyword malarky and I'm trying to get my head around it. I have read a few guides but I have a couple of questions that I can't seem to find an answer for that some of you might be able to kindly answer.

First question - I've used the google adwords keyword tool to do some research on keywords. I've then checked them up on the google search engine. My question is that if I have found a low competing keyword phrase and nobody else on google has the exact phrase except for me does that mean that my website would be number 1 in the search results?

Example:

I have 'Mercedes car black' on my website and those are the three words that I am targetting in that order. So if someone typed 'Mercedes car black' then I want them to find my website.

Now what if nobody else has that exact phrase and they only had 'Mercedes black car' as a closest match, does this mean that my website would be above everyone else's website if someone searched 'Mercedes car black'?


Second question - How many keywords can you use, is there a limit after which you start to water down the effectiveness of the keywords?

Sorry if these question might seem a bit dumb, I am trying to put the cart before the horse (research the keywords before building a site), problem is I've never built a site before so it's all relatively new to me.


Cheers,


Chris.

 

[JonathanSEO]

I think if anyone tries to answer your questions here you're going to get more confused rather than closer to an answer.

There is no definitive answer to your questions either as there are too many variables.

Probably best to try and find a beginners guide online or buy a book. I'm not sure what's recommended these days - "The Art of SEO" used to be popular. Also Seomoz beginners guide to SEO isn't a bad starting point. Maybe others have some good resources?

To be honest if this is a serious business you'd be better off just paying someone to do it for you.

 

[JMRidley]

If you search for mercedes car black you will see that the results returned include all sorts of variations of these. You only get returns at the top that are exactly these 3 words in that order if you put quotation marks around this phrase "mercedes car black" and in reality searchers aren't going to do this. So, if you are trying to optimise on a keyword phrase then you are probably competing with all the variations of it too.

The advice I've read re keywords emphasises the need to focus on one keyword per page - this makes sense to me as if you have to include that keyword in the meta title, perhaps a heading 1 and in the text on the page it would be difficult to give more than one keyword (plus variations of it) enough prominence.

PS I'm not an SEO expert - just gradually finding my way like you are so others may be able to post better advice!

 

[JonathanSEO]

Yes your site will be in top position if your keyword doesn't have any competition.

Bad answer. Probably spam.

The advice I've read re keywords emphasises the need to focus on one keyword per page

You don't want to do that. 1 page can rank for a high number of keywords. If you try make a page for each keyword you're going to get too much cross over and have pages competing against one and other.

--

There is no simple answer to the question posted.

If it's a stupidly unique phrase, or something made up, and you're the only one trying to rank for it then you will rank number one for it.

I'm assuming mercedes car black was hypothetical? There are so many factors that effect ranking for a keyword so like I said you need to read up on it rather than try and piece together answers on a forum.

 

[altwebdesign]

Google is always changing, so what works today might not work as well when they do their next update.

In theory... a longer tail keyword thats more niche and specific will help you rank higher in google but its not guaranteed.

I just put into google "Mercedes Car Black" and it pulled out 203,000,000 results including variations such as "mercedes black car" being the top result....

Not as easy as it may sound to rank well for keywords

 

[Chris34]

Thanks for the replies.

I realise that my questions might have been a bit too vague. What I meant was even though google might show different variations of those keywords does 'mercedes car black' have any extra ranking benefit over 'mercedes black car' if someone typed in 'mercedes car black' in the Google search engine or does it not make any difference what order the words are in?

I don't want to pay anybody else to do the Seo for me for several reasons. But the two main reason are that a) I want to know whats going on with my website and understand whats going on, and b) I think I will enjoy trying to figure out what works and what doesn't, I have spent years coming up with spread betting strategies on stocks and shares, sports betting strategies, roulette strategies as a hobby and enjoyed doing it, this keyword stuff seems like a similar odds and numbers game so I think I'll enjoy having a crack at it myself.


Chris.

 

[WilliamH88]

Hi there Chris,

I have worked for Google Adwords support and know a lot about keywords and how they work. I can tell you that there is always a difference in how the keywords are spelled when users search for them, as you say: If you are the only one that have that exact order as a keyword, you will most likely be #1 when somebody searches for that keyword in the exact order you have put it.

But you must remember that the bidding and the type of keyword (Broad, Phrase, Exact) comes in to play too. Lets say if someone has the keyword "Mercedes black car" and he has a max bid of 3 pounds, and you have a 2 pounds max bid on the keyword "Mercedes car black", he may still be over you as all the 3 words he have in the keyword is in the search the user did, and he has a higher max bid, but this is if the keyword type is "Broad" for both of you. If you have the keyword in "Phrase" or "Exact" Type you will be the one taking priority, as you have the closest keyword even if he has a higher max bid. Now I hope this was not to complicated to understand.

For your second question: There is not really a "Limit" but as a Adwords support agent, I were always told that you should not exceed 50 keywords as then it starts water down the effectiveness as you say. I'm not hundred % certain of this, but that is what I was told.

 

[JonathanSEO]

Hi there Chris,

I have worked for Google Adwords support and know a lot about keywords and how they work. I can tell you that there is always a difference in how the keywords are spelled when users search for them, as you say: If you are the only one that have that exact order as a keyword, you will most likely be #1 when somebody searches for that keyword in the exact order you have put it.

But you must remember that the bidding and the type of keyword (Broad, Phrase, Exact) comes in to play too. Lets say if someone has the keyword "Mercedes black car" and he has a max bid of 3 pounds, and you have a 2 pounds max bid on the keyword "Mercedes car black", he may still be over you as all the 3 words he have in the keyword is in the search the user did, and he has a higher max bid, but this is if the keyword type is "Broad" for both of you. If you have the keyword in "Phrase" or "Exact" Type you will be the one taking priority, as you have the closest keyword even if he has a higher max bid. Now I hope this was not to complicated to understand.

For your second question: There is not really a "Limit" but as a Adwords support agent, I were always told that you should not exceed 50 keywords as then it starts water down the effectiveness as you say. I'm not hundred % certain of this, but that is what I was told.

He was talking about ranking organically, not PPC.

 

[WilliamH88]

He was talking about ranking organically, not PPC.

Oh I see, haha. Then just look away from my post there.

 

[hansenmartin]

When someone uses a search engine, they type in one or more words describing what they are looking for: 'Norwich florist' or 'cheap holidays Greece', for example. These words or phrases are known as keywords. So if you want to get high ranking and more traffic on your website then you have to use relevant keywords.

 

[Ali-v-8]

When you Google - "Mercedes Car Black" you will see 206,000,000 pages are listed as indexed - These are pages that mention the three words that you searched for. as you go from page to page the combination of words diminish but are still listed as the may hold some relevance

Try searching "allintitle: Mercedes car black" you then find that there are only 35,800 results (this is your true competition). These are web pages that have actually targeted your term.

Basically you need to consider what information does your website contain that makes it more relevant than the other 35,799 (assuming you are one of the ones with the term in your title).

 

[dalepie]

I've used the google adwords keyword tool to do some research on keywords. I've then checked them up on the google search engine. My question is that if I have found a low competing keyword phrase and nobody else on google has the exact phrase except for me does that mean that my website would be number 1 in the search results?

Not automatically but it sounds like it's a possible easy rank. Of course the question is why no one else seems bothered with the keyword?

Now what if nobody else has that exact phrase and they only had 'Mercedes black car' as a closest match, does this mean that my website would be above everyone else's website if someone searched 'Mercedes car black'?

It a nutshell no, ranking is about far more than what's on the page. Actually you can argue if the on-page content is worth much at all.

How many keywords can you use, is there a limit after which you start to water down the effectiveness of the keywords?

Normally a handful of related keywords is the way forward. If i wanted to rank for say "hotels in swindon" i'd probably want to spread the love with "hotels near swindon" or "cheap accommodation in swindon" then work in an address citation and try to get some mapping action too. Sorry for getting a bit technical!

Sorry if these question might seem a bit dumb, I am trying to put the cart before the horse (research the keywords before building a site), problem is I've never built a site before so it's all relatively new to me.

You might be better off going the PPC route first. This way you get to test what works before you start any SEO campaign.

 

[tukoko]

Hi all,

First question - I've used the google adwords keyword tool to do some research on keywords.

What is the reason for using Google Adword Tool? If it's to write an Adwords Campaign - great. If it's for SEO - not great.

Google's keyword tool was designed for Adwords - help advertising target keywords/phrases and provide analysis (competition - advertisers competing for the keyword; potential traffic - volume of searches; Search trends - see if the keyword/phrase seasonal or fluctuates throughout the year)

I've then checked them up on the google search engine.

Your search experience on Google is no indication of other people's search experience. Google uses cookies to track your search history and behaviour -- all with "do no evil" intent to serve you results that you're more likely to "love" based on your surfing history.

My question is that if I have found a low competing keyword phrase and nobody else on google has the exact phrase except for me does that mean that my website would be number 1 in the search results?

Back to my earlier point - competition in the Google Keyword tool DOES NOT mean how many competing web pages of content are out there. It simply means the competitiveness of the keyword with respect to advertisers bidding on the term.

I wrote an article about the Google Keyword Tool because I found MANY people were confused or ill-informed about it's purpose

http://www.the-best-websites.co.uk/google-keyword-tool.html

I have 'Mercedes car black' on my website and those are the three words that I am targetting in that order. So if someone typed 'Mercedes car black' then I want them to find my website.

possibly somebody would find your website -- but on what page of search results? Who knows ... for some people, perhaps your site is on page 1; Others might never see your site as it appears beyond page 3 ..

Now what if nobody else has that exact phrase and they only had 'Mercedes black car' as a closest match, does this mean that my website would be above everyone else's website if someone searched 'Mercedes car black'?

There is no guarnatee that exact match (phrase matching) versus broad matching a search term would put one site higher than another in the search results. In fact, Page Rank itself is no guarantee of high rankings on search results pages.

Second question - How many keywords can you use, is there a limit after which you start to water down the effectiveness of the keywords?

Each page on your website should be FOCUSED on a keyword/phrase. Not 2 or 3 or 10 ... just one. Moreover, each page on your website should align with the overall THEME of your site. Example, if your site is about Golf Holidays then don't have pages on your site related to Dieting Recipes.

Sorry if these question might seem a bit dumb, I am trying to put the cart before the horse (research the keywords before building a site), problem is I've never built a site before so it's all relatively new to me.

No dumb questions -- Knowlege Gaps are real and you had the courage to expose yours. Good for you ... feel free to PM me if you want additional detailed help.

Cheers,
Carole.

 

[mariauc4]

Google is always changing, so what works today might not work as well when they do their next update.

In theory... a longer tail keyword thats more niche and specific will help you rank higher in google but its not guaranteed.

I just put into google "Mercedes Car Black" and it pulled out 203,000,000 results including variations such as "mercedes black car" being the top result....

Not as easy as it may sound to rank well for keywords

couldn't have put it better myself. Long tail keywords are often the easiest to rank for and will help your overall campaign but when a term has so many variations you might find it far more difficult then you think however it is worth putting the effort in as you don't want to just completely go for a word that has no search volume or competition- if you want to make your mark then you should do it on something worthy

 

[ifank]

I don't mean to hijack this thread but I want to know if SEO is just as complicated with other search engines as it is with Google? For instance, I read somewhere that keywords generally have a greater impact on Yahoo than Google. Could anybody confirm or refute this?

 

[squeekwheel]

Google search trends might be a good place to start... Most people also use rather long search terms "long tail keywords", but you'd have to pretty much guess which works best for you.