Jumping e-commerce system (Woo? Opencart? Summat else?)

[japancool]

You already know that ... you posted the link.

What possible difference do you think a fresh install is going to make?

If you want to create a fresh install, you go for it.

Guys, guys, please let's not rehash this. If you want to argue about which is better, this thread isn't the place.

 

[DontAsk]

There is a theme called "Journal" which provides that kind of functionality but unfortunately it's quite bloated and most experienced OpenCart developers don't recommend it.

What's the default? I didn't install any theme, just used OC out of the box. What am I missing?

 

[antropy]

What's the default? I didn't install any theme, just used OC out of the box. What am I missing?

The default theme for OC 2, 3, and 4 is just called default I think and looks like this:

OpenCart

My Store

opencart.antropy.co.uk

Journal is here but is NOT recommended for these reasons.

Paul.

 

[japancool]

So I installed Elementor Pro.

Made a couple of changes to the blank template (added a header and logo).

Clicked Publish, and voila!

...nothing.

The live site didn't update. What am I doing wrong?

 

[Shopclicks]

So I installed Elementor Pro.

Made a couple of changes to the blank template (added a header and logo).

Clicked Publish, and voila!

...nothing.

The live site didn't update. What am I doing wrong?

So you created a header template in the Templates > Theme Builder section?

 

[japancool]

So you created a header template in the Templates > Theme Builder section?

No. After clicking the button on the "Get started" page, I edited the stuff that appeared.

 

[Shopclicks]

No. After clicking the button on the "Get started" page, I edited the stuff that appeared.

There are a few settings that you need to go through before you start building things out.

 

[wayzgoose]

I don't have an OpenCart site at the moment but have had two in the past. Currently have one on Wordpress, one on Zen Cart and one on Freewebstore. Have to say, the only one that a numpty like me managed to download and install from c-panel and worked pretty perfectly with a decent design was Open Cart. All very simple to use.

 

[Gibson46]

I currently use BigCommerce. Very happy with it, it's lightning quick and does more or less everything I want.

I don't want to move, but I've exceeded their sales limit and my costs have gone from $109 a month to $399 a month.

So I'm considering other solutions. I've used Woo before, and didn't really have an issue with it, but have no idea what spec a server I would need to self-host. I've never used Opencart. I prefer, if possible, to work with Windows systems (don't yell at me), but I'll work with Unix if I have to, although I would need help configuring it to make sure all security holes are patched.

What sort of cost would I be looking at to replicate my current site in Woo/Open/AN Other system? And what about ongoing costs, besides the server?

Trying to figure out if it's worthwhile, or whether I just swallow the cost increases. I don't want this to crop up again when and if I breach their next sales threshold.

Ever thought about giving Shopify a whirl? I’ve been navigating the e-commerce world for, like, 13 years. Started with a bespoke site for a couple of years, then hopped over to OpenCart—it was decent and did the job. But then, someone suggested I try out Magento 2. Huge mistake! They said it was super flexible and could do pretty much anything I wanted. What they didn’t mention were the insane development costs. Felt like I needed a new security patch every other week!

So, back to your question: ever considered Shopify? Long story short, I made the switch and saw my costs plummet—I ended up paying less than I did for just hosting with Magento! And say goodbye to the headaches: no more hosting troubles, no SSL certificate dramas, and most of the features are already integrated. Best part? My sales and conversion rates shot up a week after I switched! It felt like a breath of fresh air and saved me a small fortune
.

 

[japancool]

Ever thought about giving Shopify a whirl?

No. If I'm doing this, I'm moving to something I control and am not bound to another provider's cost structure.

I would never have considered Magento to begin with, as my site isn't custom enough to warrant it.

 

[Trapbarn]

'm intrigued by your products. Do people assemble them like we did with model aircraft and balsa wood in the 1950's. ?

 

[japancool]

'm intrigued by your products. Do people assemble them like we did with model aircraft and balsa wood in the 1950's. ?

Yes, that's right. No glue or paint required.

 

[Byzantium]

No. If I'm doing this, I'm moving to something I control and am not bound to another provider's cost structure.

I would never have considered Magento to begin with, as my site isn't custom enough to warrant it.

I hear this a lot in opposition to Shopify and the like but are we really considering the real numbers ?

I see £25, £65 or £334 monthly or £19, £49, £259 per month if paid annually.

www.shopify.com/uk/pricing

What can you buy for £49 a month ? Half a basket of groceries at the supermarket ? Half a tank of petrol ?

What did it used to cost ? £39 per month maybe ? £44 perhaps ? It sure didn't go from £1 a month to £49 where quite rightly you might think the next move was to £1999 a month.

I've got other software which has gone from £49 to £59 to £79 over the last decade. Sure, it is more but no incremental jump was horrific.

I just don't buy into the argument that people dismiss things like Shopify because of an irrational fear of the unknown potential future costs.

 

[japancool]

I just don't buy into the argument that people dismiss things like Shopify because of an irrational fear of the unknown potential future costs.

Forget future costs. Switching to Shopify would save me £100 a month NOW. It's not worth it.

I have no wish to be beholden to the policies of a provider that are out of my control.

If you like Shopfy, great. I'm not criticising your choice. You do what's right for your business, I have to do what I believe is right for mine.

 

[Shopclicks]

I hear this a lot in opposition to Shopify and the like but are we really considering the real numbers ?

But what are you actually paying for? A platform to sell stuff on.

An alternative like Wordpress/Woocommerce is so much cheaper in the long run. Good hosting for less than £20/month.

If you struggle with the install, you pay a developer to set it all up for you (2-3 hours). Get them to install a drag and drop page builder, set Wordpress, the theme and plugins to auto update if you don't want to do it yourself.

Pay a developer for an hour every 3-4 months to check the site over. That's it.

So why anyone would pay Shopify £259+ every month is beyond me. Particularly when you take the SEO capabilities into account.

 

[japancool]

An alternative like Wordpress/Woocommerce is so much cheaper in the long run. Good hosting for less than £20/month.

This is important. Right now, switching away from BigCommerce to an open source solution will save me in the region of £4k a year. However, is I were to stick with BC, and breach their next threshold (which I fully intend to do), my costs would skyrocket, as I would then need to go to their Enterprise solution, which is custom pricing. I'm not prepared to stick around and see what that custom pricing might be.

But it's not just price. There are some custom features I may want in the future, and I can't do that with BC.

 

[japancool]

I've decided to go with OpenCart 3.0.3.8. Managed to download and install it, and install a theme I like, so now configuring it. This is the fun part.

Thanks to everyone who recommended and helped with Woo, but I just wasn't getting on with it. The backend was really slow on my installation, and nothing was intuitive (for me). I have no doubt it does the job perfectly well for many people, but ultimately, I decided to go with something I felt more comfortable with from the get-go.

 

[antropy]

This is important. Right now, switching away from BigCommerce to an open source solution will save me in the region of £4k a year. However, is I were to stick with BC, and breach their next threshold (which I fully intend to do), my costs would skyrocket, as I would then need to go to their Enterprise solution, which is custom pricing. I'm not prepared to stick around and see what that custom pricing might be.

Yup, that's the problem when another company has full control over your website, how much they charge you and you're fully locked in!

Glad you're liking OpenCart so far!

Paul.

 

[Byzantium]

But what are you actually paying for? A platform to sell stuff on.

An alternative like Wordpress/Woocommerce is so much cheaper in the long run. Good hosting for less than £20/month.

If you struggle with the install, you pay a developer to set it all up for you (2-3 hours). Get them to install a drag and drop page builder, set Wordpress, the theme and plugins to auto update if you don't want to do it yourself.

Pay a developer for an hour every 3-4 months to check the site over. That's it.

So why anyone would pay Shopify £259+ every month is beyond me. Particularly when you take the SEO capabilities into account.

Sounds so simple. Except for the mythical unicorn of a good developer because every developer I've ever talked to has trashed the work of the incumbent or the previous guy.

I also think your 2-3 hours argument is vastly understating the requirements but you clearly have a skillset that I don't have so it may be that for you but 20/50 hours for someone else.

 

[Shopclicks]

I also think your 2-3 hours argument is vastly understating the requirements but you clearly have a skillset that I don't have so it may be that for you but 20/50 hours for someone else.

If you go with Shopify, who is going to do all the design and product setup?

I'm talking about getting Wordpress/Woocommerce to the same stage as a blank Shopify store. But with a one-off price and without the ridiculous ongoing costs of a Shopify store.

I have my own templates for ecommerce stores which I simply import at the start of a build. Then I change settings to suit the client. Some clients need the site built out with design and products added, some do it all themselves and others just need over the phone training in how to use a page builder.

Sounds so simple. Except for the mythical unicorn of a good developer because every developer I've ever talked to has trashed the work of the incumbent or the previous guy.

I see rubbish websites people have paid good money for all the time. Sometimes these things have to be pointed out to the site owner. What you see as trashing could just be the truth and honest opinion.

 

[antropy]

every developer I've ever talked to has trashed the work of the incumbent or the previous guy.

Having been a developer for nearly 20 years I can confirm this happens pretty much every time ?

Paul.

 

[japancool]

Having been a developer for nearly 20 years I can confirm this happens pretty much every time ?

Paul.

I will confirm the same, in all areas of IT. I've done it myself... and no doubt, the guy after me will do it to my work!

Then again, I had a nice compliment from a consultant telling us that we were pushing a system further than anyone else he had seen and that we had done everything pretty much how he would have done it.

 

[Gibson46]

No. If I'm doing this, I'm moving to something I control and am not bound to another provider's cost structure.

I would never have considered Magento to begin with, as my site isn't custom enough to warrant

Hi Japancool,
I get that it’s not everyone’s cup of tea, and everyone has their reasons. From where I stand, Shopify just takes a load off your mind. There’s no stressing over SSL, hosting, patches/security updates, or developers. I’ve noticed how these aspects, if not managed, can start to become a financial strain. What really sold me on Shopify was not having to deal with PCI compliance anymore. My Opencart website got hacked once because my developer missed a patch during our migration to Magento. That mistake cost me £15k + a lesson I didn’t want to learn twice. I’m really into the simplicity and peace of mind that Shopify offers.

 

[japancool]

My Opencart website got hacked once because my developer missed a patch during our migration to Magento. That mistake cost me £15k + a lesson I didn’t want to learn twice. I’m really into the simplicity and peace of mind that Shopify offers.

This is why, once I have configured my site, I fully intend to pay an expert to give it a once-over to make sure I haven't missed anything.

Hacks happen even with a hosted system such as Shopify:

Has Shopify Been Hacked? - WebsiteBuilderInsider.com

Shopify, one of the world’s most popular ecommerce platforms, has been hit by a major security breach. The company has confirmed that its systems were breached by hackers, who gained access to customer data including names, email addresses, addresses and order details. Shopify has over half a...

www.websitebuilderinsider.com

 

[lumencreative]

This is why, once I have configured my site, I fully intend to pay an expert to give it a once-over to make sure I haven't missed anything.

Hacks happen even with a hosted system such as Shopify:

Has Shopify Been Hacked? - WebsiteBuilderInsider.com

Shopify, one of the world’s most popular ecommerce platforms, has been hit by a major security breach. The company has confirmed that its systems were breached by hackers, who gained access to customer data including names, email addresses, addresses and order details. Shopify has over half a...

www.websitebuilderinsider.com

The company I worked for also fell foul to hackers. The hosting company (Rackspace) swore blind that the server we had wasn't vulnerable. We showed them scans that proved it was, and they refuted them saying the scans were wrong. Hackers managed to intercept customer credit card details and our Visa found that our website was the common denominator so held our company liable. Not only did our merchant provider give us a hefty penalty, but Visa gave us one as well, AND we were forced to undertake a forensic investigation of our internal network, web server and our internal policies. The forensic investigation cost £10k alone. In total I think it cost the company around £40k and unfairly it was my head on the chopping block as I was the web developer. The company I worked for had no interest in going after Rackspace (which is what I would have done as it was ultimately their fault) but hey, losing that job was the best thing that ever happened but it has definitely made me cautious.

The difference between a site like Opencart being hacked and Shopify being hacked though is that if a Shopify store gets hacked (more likely multiple Shopify stores), it's Shopify on the hook for the penalties. If your Opencart site gets hacked to the point where your merchant provider is getting involved, you're on the hook.

One way to solve this (to an extent) is to use a hosted payment page from your merchant gateway, such as what Stripe offer (we use DNA Payments for our Prestashop store and it works in a similar way).

**Not advocating for Shopify I'll add as I still don't know which way to go myself**

 

[japancool]

One way to solve this (to an extent) is to use a hosted payment page from your merchant gateway, such as what Stripe offer (we use DNA Payments for our Prestashop store and it works in a similar way).

We use Stripe, so that part is handled.

I'm sure @antropy can weigh in on the question of security.