IT Qualification's

[Team Leith Training]

Clear with IT becoming more central to business than it ever has been there is always going to be a need for IT Professionals.

However as employers, what qualifications do you look for in your staff/ job candidate?
In my day skills and experience were enough. Then the A+, MCP, MCSE and so forth become a necessity.

Are these qualifications still valid in the industry?

 

[fx7solutions]

I would see them as 'nice to have', but not required - they shouldn't be a must in the recruitment process. However if someone does certifications, they should be up to date.

 

[internetspaceships]

I'd rather someone was capable of doing the job to be honest.

I've met plenty of certified "professionals" who haven't got a clue.

 

[KM-Tiger]

I've met plenty of certified "professionals" who haven't got a clue.

What's that old joke?: Must Consult Someone Experienced

 

[internetspaceships]

What's that old joke?: Must Consult Someone Experienced

Haha, like Google.

 

[ITsoldUK]

What's that old joke?: Must Consult Someone Experienced

Brilliant...

That has finished my week off tippety top

 

[Paul_Rosser]

Like others have said an MCSE etc is a nice to have and experience is much more desirable.

Depending on the role some of the specialist training such as the CEH can help on a CV.

 

[Team Leith Training]

I think the MCSE was marred by the fact that many used the Troytec to memorise the answers to the Trancender examination. Not saying its possible to do that now.
But back in my earlier days when i went to do the MCSE in London (i never completed). A friend of mine managed to pass two of the MCP's the 70-210 and 70-215 by memorising the answers.

Result, yes he got the qualification, but did not fully understand the OS's concerned or the concepts. This also showed when he used it to find work.
I always kept failing by a couple of percent myself (two attempts), but i tried reading and learning the material.

That said, nothing beats hard experience, i find with without the other (qualifications) is hard to move forward with. Qualifications with experience is a delicate balance, but the winning formula (especially if looking for work). Not so much if in business, however customers might still like to see the accrediations.
That said the experience is often what provides the real life training you need to do the job. The paperwork mearly serves to validate and offer credability to it.

 

[campaignshield12]

I'd like to see experience to do the work rather than certifications.

 

[10032012]

For me its experience, attitude, skills and communication ability:- if they cant communicate well, they wont be able to work well. I don't want someone keen who says they understand and either doesn't fix the problem or does something completely different.

I think big employers still swear by these professional qualifications but even more so by academical qualifications.

 

[RedEvo]

As an employer I like to see qualifications as I believe acquiring real qualifications demonstrates commitment, then for me, it's all about attitude. I'll take attitude over experience any day. Of course experience and a great attitude is killer combo.

d

 

[internetspaceships]

Could I enquire as to what you'd define as a real qualification, because your post still really leant towards experience and attitude.

 

[Rasta Pickles]

I'd rather someone was capable of doing the job to be honest.

I've met plenty of certified "professionals" who haven't got a clue.

So very true.

I often wonder how much of the UK's economic woes can be attributed to employers taking someone on believing that just because they've got a certificate then they must actually know what day of the week it is.

 

[Paul_Rosser]

As an employer I like to see qualifications as I believe acquiring real qualifications demonstrates commitment, then for me, it's all about attitude. I'll take attitude over experience any day. Of course experience and a great attitude is killer combo.

d

That may work at the lower end of the scale but in high end IT support you need experience and lots of it as most employers expect you to be capable of supporting complex networks, firewalls, server farms etc from day one.

Attitude and experience however is a great combo and in my experience most firms will pay a premium for those with both.

 

[RedEvo]

Could I enquire as to what you'd define as a real qualification, because your post still really leant towards experience and attitude.

A qualification that takes some serious effort over a decent period of time.

d

 

[ScotComp]

I've been to University, got the degree and I've got the Microsoft certifications and CIW certifications and in all honesty... I didn't really learn that much from them.

 

[Paul_Rosser]

The biggest issue with training provided by software/hardware vendors is that they never teach you about the bugs in their products. You can do all the Microsoft courses you like, they will never teach you how to hack the domain admin password cos a pissed off sysadmin changed it before he left.

 

[RedEvo]

I've been to University, got the degree and I've got the Microsoft certifications and CIW certifications and in all honesty... I didn't really learn that much from them.

Perhaps you get out what you put in. I still draw on my education despite finishing my post grad in 1996.

d

 

[lynxus]

Being a network engineer, Our company tend to like anyone with an "Industry" qualification.

Be it in Cisco ( CCNA, CCNP etc ) or Fortinet or Juniper etc etc.

Id say when we recruit theres a few things we look for ( IN ORDER! )

- Experience
- Industry Qualifications
- General appearance / Personality

Now, While we like people who are qualified. Its NOT essential. If you have a lot of relevant experience and are able to answer the questions posed in the interview then you may not even need a qualification.

A degree simply proves your able to "learn" , industry qualifications simply mean you can study and pass an exam.
EXPERIENCE! Esp, in I.T is the MAJOR! factor.

We have employed people with a ton of exam's and yet cant do simple tasks that said exams would of covered.

Hope this helps.


Oh - Edit
I get approached pretty much monthly by companies wanting to know if I'm looking for work. I normally turn them down either due to pay or distance..
Anyway.. While I only have a few "Industry Exams" they ALL! point out that its not an issue.. My 10+ years of working as a senior infrastructure engineer ( Networks, Firewalls, Servers etc etc ) for a large ISP is all they are after.

So , Yes as someone pointed out. At the LOWER end of the scale ( basic roles ) then exams are a must.. Higher grade engineers dont require them as much as they have a PROVEN track record.

-G

 

[internetspaceships]

I'm with Lynx on this.

I employ 8 engineers, and although most are now on some kind of training course permanently whether it be a manufacturer specific course or a CCNA or whatever, they were all employed for their common sense approach and their attitude.

 

[10032012]

I've been to University, got the degree and I've got the Microsoft certifications and CIW certifications and in all honesty... I didn't really learn that much from them.

I don't think the industry qualifications are designed for the best of the best... its much better for the manufacturers to say "We have 120,000 certified... " rather than 1072.

This said apparently even GCSE exams etc. are dumbed down for what I can only imagine is a similar reason.

 

[TotallySport]

I am not in the industry so can i ask a question, if someone doesn't have the qualifications can they still get the experience?

Can you still aquire the experience without the qualifications? and if so how?

 

[Paul_Rosser]

I am not in the industry so can i ask a question, if someone doesn't have the qualifications can they still get the experience?

Can you still aquire the experience without the qualifications? and if so how?

You can but would need to start as a trainee or junior support person and work your way up the ladder. You would also need a good understanding of basic stuff like Windows, Printers etc for a firm to consider you.

Jobs in IT are an ever changing role so it's very imporant to keep your skills up to date, which unless you are lucky enough to work for a firm which happily lets you buy/install the latest soft/hardware usually means moving every now and again.

The industry has changed a lot in the past 20 years and back before 2000 anyone with a basic understanding of IT could quite easily get a job, since then a lot of people saw the industry as easy money so the market got saturated and it's now much harder due to the vast numbers of people applying for each job.

 

[Ameripac]

I think experience to do the work rather than just certifications. Yes but it is mandatory that every one should qualified.

 

[KM-Tiger]

... If you have a lot of relevant experience and are able to answer the questions posed in the interview then you may not even need a qualification.

We set a practical test.

There is no score and it's not pass/fail. What's interesting is to see the approach to diagnosing and fixing a problem.

 

[ScotComp]

I am not in the industry so can i ask a question, if someone doesn't have the qualifications can they still get the experience?

Can you still aquire the experience without the qualifications? and if so how?

Self taught (which is how I got involved), I then started building community forums like this site and learned more and more about it.

I'd say when I started at University I knew far more than the lecture.

 

[Rasta Pickles]

You can do all the Microsoft courses you like, they will never teach you how to hack the domain admin password cos a pissed off sysadmin changed it before he left.

That's why you always ensure that another user account is a member of the Administrator's Group.

Check it. Daily. To ensure any renegade Administrator hasn't disabled it.

You can then change the password using the Active Directory Users and Computers Console, locate the Administrator account, click on properties, and reset the password.

Never, ever give a single person complete control.

You might as well hold your hands up and get your chequebook out.

 

[lynxus]

That's why you always ensure that another user account is a member of the Administrator's Group.

Check it. Daily. To ensure any renegade Administrator hasn't disabled it.

You can then change the password using the Active Directory Users and Computers Console, locate the Administrator account, click on properties, and reset the password.

Never, ever give a single person complete control.

You might as well hold your hands up and get your chequebook out.

Daily checks wont save you if an admin wants to screw you over.
They will just remove all other access and then lock their own account after.

Good alerting ( when things change ) and the ability to know how to get round security is always a good thing to have ( for you and other engineers )

 

[Paul_Rosser]

That's why you always ensure that another user account is a member of the Administrator's Group.

Check it. Daily. To ensure any renegade Administrator hasn't disabled it.

You can then change the password using the Active Directory Users and Computers Console, locate the Administrator account, click on properties, and reset the password.

Never, ever give a single person complete control.

You might as well hold your hands up and get your chequebook out.

Sorry yes there are things you should put in place to ensure if the sole admin changes all the passwords and leaves you have a backup login.

Was meant to be an example of something someone who has been on all the MS courses wouldn't have been taught.

However I've been called into a number of companies where they haven't taken those safeguards, the domain admin changed all the admin logins passwords and they were told (wrongly) by other MS experts that it's impossible to reset the domain admin password if you don't have an account with admin rights.