Is there a free or non subscription MTD solution?

[DavidWH]

Following on from another thread, is there a free MTD solution?

My gripe is, that having used sage instant accounts/accounts essentials for the past 8 years on perpetual licences.

Sage has always had the ability to submit VAT from within the software, part of its basic functionality.

Now I find I am forced to pay a subscription to be MTD compliant, even updating to v25 requires a subscription. Or pay a higher subscription for 50c.

No longer can you manually enter the figures using the gateway, so you are literally forced into paying a subscription.

I don't see why we should have to pay £10 a month, when submitting a VAT return has always been free using the gateway.

Are there any alternatives to the subscription model that is being forced upon us?

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

Export the vat return figures generated in Sage Essentials into Excel and then use a free bridging software add in such as Avalara to file the Return.

At the moment its only the 9 boxes figures from the VAT Return that get sent to HMRC via MTD VAT filing.

 

[DavidWH]

@UK Contractor Accountant I will look into the export to excel tomorrow, Can't say I have ever used it. If the bridging software works I owe you a beer or two

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

I do understand that a lot of businesses are going to end up paying for software they never had previously, but is it really worth spending so much extra time using bridging software and trying to find free options?

I would have thought that will actually be more expensive in the long term if you consider the additional time you'll need to spend.

You will find cheaper alternatives to Sage which deal with Making VAT Digital, Accounts Portal is one of them especially if you can get a discount via your accountant.

 

[DavidWH]

Is it worth spending £30, every quarter to submit a VAT return?

Sage will do all the figures as standard now, all I need to do is export it excel and submit it using bridging software.

Whilst it add's additional steps to my vat return, it's once a quarter, in reality will not add that much additional time to it.

And how long will the subscription be £10 a month?

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Is it worth spending £30, every quarter to submit a VAT return?

Sage will do all the figures as standard now, all I need to do is export it excel and submit it using bridging software.

Whilst it add's additional steps to my vat return, it's once a quarter, in reality will not add that much additional time to it.

And how long will the subscription be £10 a month?

Ultimately it depends on how much you value your time at, and how easy it is to use the bridging software.

As I mentioned you could spend under £30 a month and get software to replace Sage which will also enable you to submit your VAT return online and deal with MVD.

 

[DavidWH]

It's £10 a month to have the MTD option, which is £30 a quarter.

If it takes less than an hour to use the briding software we're quids in.

I'm tied to sage, as it links with the MIS we use for estimating and managing customer data, which is why we only need the most basic of versions, as the MIS has all the additional functionality built in.

I could upgrade to 50c @ £18 a month, but really there's no advantage for us to do so, there's no new features that will really warrant it ongoing cost, compared to the £100 for a perpetual licence.

 

[Pish_Pash]

I'll likely code up my own API, but if I'm time poor I too will certainly use bridging software, there's one here free until 2020 (which buys a bit of time)...

https://www.dcsoftware.co.uk/

...it shouldn't take anymore than 3-4 minutes to submit a VAT return using bridging software...export VAT report from your accounts software as a spreadsheet, open up the spreadsheet in the bridging software...eyevball it...submit to HMRC.

That's got to be worth ducking yet another cost.

(personally, I think they'll kick the can down the road & push the date back - too much going on in/around that time with Brexit ....plus there are heaps of small businesses not even aware)

 

[Glenn Martin]

Your missing the point with what cloud software does. It isn't costing you £30 just to file the vat return. The software is better than Sage Instant it works with bank feeds which will save you time from manually entering data into it.

Bridging software is a sticking plaster for the solution, not a long term one.

Don't just look at the cost, consider the time saving it could give you.

 

[DavidWH]

Already paying for the bank feeds, which agreed save's me time. So I'll be paying for the bank feeds, and also the MTD.

If Sage increase the costs on the bank feeds, I can opt to stop paying it, loose that functionality, and keep my data, and go back to manually inputting the data.

The only thing a the new subscription will give me that I don't already have is MTD compliance, and there are cheaper alternatives that achieve the same thing.

 

[Hugh Simpson]

VitalTax may be an option.

 

[Glenn Martin]

There is more than bank feeds available, it depends on how little you value you your time.

Many bank feeds are free if that is an issue look at Santander and moving away from Sage. Sage expect you to move onto subscription model if you don't you will be stuck on the old version of sage unsupported until it breaks or stops working.

If you would sooner return to manual bank recs instead of paying £3 for a bank feed your not getting the benefit.

If techonology could save you 2 hours per week at a cost of £20 could you not charge your customers for that 2 hours at a much higher rate or you could work 2 hours less and spend that with your family.

 

[DavidWH]

We need to use a desktop version of Sage as it links with our MIS, which has all the functionality we need, all we use Sage for is the book keeping, so the very basic essentials package ticks the boxes.

The new versions provide very little new features worth upgrading for, we last upgraded to enable bank feeds, it's worth while.

£3.00 is fine for bank feeds, but what if they increased that to £10?

The only reason Sage/Adobe/Microsoft want everyone on the subscription model is because it generates an ongoing income stream, rather than the likes of us, who will buy the licence and run it for as long as feasible possible... we're still running adobe CS5, it does everything we require of it.

The original post wasn't about the subscription, it was asking if there are any free or non subscription alternatives, of which there are.

£20.00 a year to do my VAT returns in 5mins, or £120 to do it 2 mins? That's literally how much we're talking about, the time argument is lost IMHO.

 

[urstop]

I have come across https://accountsdesk.co.uk/mtd . Check their demo. I was able to use my existing excel VAT workings sheet with their demo account to try out the digital submission of VAT. They have the demo login and test HMRC account available to see how it works.

 

[Marigolds]

Following on from another thread, is there a free MTD solution?

My gripe is, that having used sage instant accounts/accounts essentials for the past 8 years on perpetual licences.

Sage has always had the ability to submit VAT from within the software, part of its basic functionality.

Now I find I am forced to pay a subscription to be MTD compliant, even updating to v25 requires a subscription. Or pay a higher subscription for 50c.

No longer can you manually enter the figures using the gateway, so you are literally forced into paying a subscription.

I don't see why we should have to pay £10 a month, when submitting a VAT return has always been free using the gateway.

Are there any alternatives to the subscription model that is being forced upon us?

Yes, there is an excellent alternative recently developed by a small software agency who use Sage Instant Accounts. It also works with Sage 50 and Sage Essentials. It's a clever bit of bridging software called Instant MTD - very easy to install, you can try before you buy (a one-off payment of £95.00 + VAT) and its HMRC approved.

I'm new to this forum so I can't post a link, but I believe HMRC will be publishing the link on their own list of MTD software during the coming week.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

.... I believe HMRC will be publishing the link on their own list of MTD software during the coming week.

They have it's here

 

[Noah]

I'll likely code up my own API, but if I'm time poor I too will certainly use bridging software, there's one here free until 2020 (which buys a bit of time)...

https://www.dcsoftware.co.uk/

...it shouldn't take anymore than 3-4 minutes to submit a VAT return using bridging software...export VAT report from your accounts software as a spreadsheet, open up the spreadsheet in the bridging software...eyevball it...submit to HMRC.

Does the job. Thanks a lot.

Don't forget you need to register for MTD first, and that can take several days to process!

My procedure :

. Ran VAT Return on "old" software (SAGE Instant Accounts+)
. Print -> Preview -> Export -> .xls format
. Pointed MTDfVAT at exported spreadsheet
. Used "=" function to find return values in spreadsheet.
. Submitted successfully

Doubtless if there is a problem with the submission, the very nice Man From The VAT will let me know; otherwise, I'm very happy with MTDfVAT.

 

[pjaeckel]

I've found a submission tool, small fee and no subscription required.

I am not allowed to post a link yet (less than 30 posts)

Take a look at the www dot embeddeduk dot com website.

 

[dvddarren]

I've found a submission tool, small fee and no subscription required.

I am not allowed to post a link yet (less than 30 posts)

Take a look at the www dot embeddeduk dot com website.

This software can only be used during the 'Soft Landing' of MTD. So you are only able to submit maximum 4 quarterly returns with it.
MTD wants all figures to be digitally calculated and submitted using digital links where needed. HMRC are only allowing copy/paste of figures during the initial 12 month soft landing.

When we demo'd our apps to HMRC they wanted to check that a user can not copy/paste figures into the return, so i'm not sure how something so blatant managed to get passed them.

You should spend some time during this 'soft landing' period to make sure you can become fully compliant before it creeps up on you.

 

[Noah]

MTD wants all figures to be digitally calculated and submitted using digital links where needed. HMRC are only allowing copy/paste of figures during the initial 12 month soft landing.

When we demo'd our apps to HMRC they wanted to check that a user can not copy/paste figures into the return, so i'm not sure how something so blatant managed to get passed them.

Do HMRC have a mechanism to actually prevent manual intervention? Would seem to be rather tricky. Maybe they just remove non-compliant software from the Approved list and reject at handshake - assuming no-one can emulate Approved software handshake...

If it's not good enough for the Lords it's not good enough for me.

 

[dvddarren]

Do HMRC have a mechanism to actually prevent manual intervention? Would seem to be rather tricky. Maybe they just remove non-compliant software from the Approved list and reject at handshake - assuming no-one can emulate Approved software handshake...

If it's not good enough for the Lords it's not good enough for me.

Every app using the HMRC API's has to request keys to use the live server. HMRC requested a demo of software before awarding access. So it's very easy for them to shut off access to any software.
Did they keep notes to re-evaluate certain software that offers copy/paste in a years time? Who knows.

Let's not forget, it's not only the fact you are using software that makes you MTD compliant. Any subsequent investigations by HMRC will no doubt want to also see your digital record keeping and submitting processes. Not being compliant will likely come back and bite you at some point in the future.

 

[Noah]

Not being compliant will likely come back and bite you at some point in the future.

Good point. On the other hand, being ripped off for "MTD-compliamt software" to the tune of £125+ annually is right here, right now, biting me daily.

When gov imposes rules and then farms out the financial benefits to private business I tend to get a little cross.

 

[dvddarren]

Good point. On the other hand, being ripped off for "MTD-compliamt software" to the tune of £125+ annually is right here, right now, biting me daily.

When gov imposes rules and then farms out the financial benefits to private business I tend to get a little cross.

I agree with you there.

Although I sell a VAT MTD Bridging App, I only decided to make it when I couldn't find anything suitable (Mac compatible and not cloud) and cheap enough for my own personal use. I priced it cheaper than most of the other alternatives, but obviously not the free solutions as I have spent months working on it, had a nightmare getting Apple to approve it and I offer free support.
I would have been just as happy if HMRC had produced their own solution. Forcing people to pay to pay their taxes is crazy and I fear it is just going to get worse as more and more tax departments seek to move to 100% digital.

 

[paulears]

Why is £125 a rip-off. 50p a day surely is something to hardly make you wince, and is an allowable expense, so even lower in practical terms than the £125. I got very cross when Adobe started their subscription model and vowed it would be NEVER, EVER, and here I am a few years later using the extra features and time saving the new software gives me over the old, update and spend by choice system.

I realise it's not the money really, but the principle, but for me, the benefits so far of the new software over my single priced one-payment dinosaur really work for me. Is this just like when a person has to have some kind of certificate, or new qualification to work? One of my teaching qualification exemptions was time limited and when the qualification system changed, my exemption became obsolete, so I had to pay to update it. My electrician colleague had to spend loads of money to be allowed to put a light in a bathroom. These things are just a penalty of being in business. Are they really worth getting steamed up over?

 

[dvddarren]

Why is £125 a rip-off. 50p a day surely is something to hardly make you wince, and is an allowable expense, so even lower in practical terms than the £125. I got very cross when Adobe started their subscription model and vowed it would be NEVER, EVER, and here I am a few years later using the extra features and time saving the new software gives me over the old, update and spend by choice system.

I realise it's not the money really, but the principle, but for me, the benefits so far of the new software over my single priced one-payment dinosaur really work for me. Is this just like when a person has to have some kind of certificate, or new qualification to work? One of my teaching qualification exemptions was time limited and when the qualification system changed, my exemption became obsolete, so I had to pay to update it. My electrician colleague had to spend loads of money to be allowed to put a light in a bathroom. These things are just a penalty of being in business. Are they really worth getting steamed up over?

I do wonder if the purpose of MTD was to flush out all the old stagnant software that is still in use.

 

[Noah]

Why is £125 a rip-off. [...] Are they really worth getting steamed up over?

Yes, because :

Forcing people to pay to pay their taxes is crazy and I fear it is just going to get worse as more and more tax departments seek to move to 100% digital.

If getting steamed up leads to political pressure that slows or stops this abuse then yes, it is worth it.

I would take if up with my MP, but guess who's rather pre-occupied as Yet Another Conservative PM Candidate? I think I am confident in not jeopardising my anonymity by pointing that out!

 

[John Hemming]

Good point. On the other hand, being ripped off for "MTD-compliamt software" to the tune of £125+ annually is right here, right now, biting me daily.

According to HMRC there are 11 MTD solutions that are currently free.

 

[Noah]

According to HMRC there are 11 MTD solutions that are currently free.

This software can only be used during the 'Soft Landing' of MTD.

 

[dvddarren]

I can't comment on the rest as I haven't looked at them. The one posted above will not be compliant after the soft landing unless it gets updated to support digital links.

 

[DataDear Carl]

Ours is free and will be compliant beyond soft landing period. We also received the following in an email from HMRC "...we have also received a small number of complaints about some developer material suggesting that bridging products will be unsupported after 2020. This is incorrect, we have no plans to stop supporting bridging solutions. The complex nature of some business models makes bridging solutions the most practical solution in some scenarios."

Make sure you meet the digital record keeping requirements and sleep easy!

 

[John Hemming]

1. I am not aware of any of the free software that is not compliant post April 1 2020. (as part of a bridging solution or otherwise)
2. Some of the free software includes digital recording as well.

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

If you open a business account with Natwest/RBS you get a free copy of MTD enabled software FreeAgent for life.

 

[EmbeddedUK]

This software can only be used during the 'Soft Landing' of MTD. So you are only able to submit maximum 4 quarterly returns with it.
MTD wants all figures to be digitally calculated and submitted using digital links where needed. HMRC are only allowing copy/paste of figures during the initial 12 month soft landing.

When we demo'd our apps to HMRC they wanted to check that a user can not copy/paste figures into the return, so i'm not sure how something so blatant managed to get passed them.

You should spend some time during this 'soft landing' period to make sure you can become fully compliant before it creeps up on you.

You are correct, this is currently a bridging tool.
However, there is nothing 'blatant' about meeting HMRC's requirements, conducting a successful demo and being issued with production credentials. The process is transparent. Furthermore the current status is quite clearly noted on the website along with a link to HMRC's site detailing the rules.
It may interest you (or others) to note that the next version (presently in testing) will include the
ability to import data, thus closing the digital link and will be, as you say, fully compliant after the soft landing period.
This will be a free upgrade to existing customers.
Finally, thank you for taking the time to look at our website.