Is it possible to learn web design without going back into education?

[Squal]

Hi all, I'm basically asking if you think it would be possible to self-teach web design? if so are there any resources out there which would help me on my quest? and also a list of good software programs would be highly appreciated.

 

[james_firmsites]

My view is the best web designers/developers ARE self taught. As the industry moves so fast unless your able to learn for yourself you will soon find your education out of date.

Out of interest why do you think web design is right for you, do you have an existing design background or are you looking for something just to make money?

The reason I ask is because it is one of the most, if not the most, competitive industries you can enter. If you have existing skills that will make you unique I would say go for it, but if you are just looking to get a different job then I would suggest thinking again as it can be very tough starting out to make money.

 

[TotallySport]

First you need to clearly define web design, do you want to design sites and then get someone else to build them, do you want to design them and then build the framework for that design, and get someone else to develop the back end, or do you want to develop the back end and not design anything.

If you want to learn how to build web sites then the places to start are:

www.w3schools.com
http://www.htmldog.com/
http://www.htmlgoodies.com/

If you want to learn how to develop back ends in asp.net then a good place to start is

http://www.asp.net/mvc

but there are loads of other places to start such as php, java and much more.

The problem is there are 1000 ways to achieve the same thing, but what you want to achieve will allow other people to give you much more accurate advice.

 

[marketing9]

even harvard and mit are putting all their study materials online. You can do anything with youtube.

 

[FIZIX Agency]

First you need to clearly define web design, do you want to design sites and then get someone else to build them, do you want to design them and then build the framework for that design, and get someone else to develop the back end, or do you want to develop the back end and not design anything.

Good advice, the term "web designer" is pretty much meaningless these days. The internet has evolved dramatically and now you have lots of specialisms on both the artistic and technical side.

So your actual skills, talents or interests are what's important and then to identify where you fit into the scheme of things.

If you want to learn how to build web sites then the places to start are:

www.w3schools.com
http://www.htmldog.com/
http://www.htmlgoodies.com/

Sorry I have to disagree, they are not good resources. W3Schools is well known for being poor.

I'd recommend the Sitepoint Reference over w3schools.

In fact, go to www.sitepoint.com - its a "web design/development" site with articles, a massive forum, books (digital and physical copy) and an extensive reference that is far superior to w3schools, htmldog etc.

If you want to learn how to develop back ends in asp.net then a good place to start is

http://www.asp.net/mvc

but there are loads of other places to start such as php, java and much more.

If they want to get into backend programming then I would recommend HTML & CSS > JavaScript > PHP > Others

If they want to get into the front end, HTML & CSS, extensively JavaScript, jQuery, Ajax, extensively HTML5.

If they want to focus on the artistic, design side; then Photoshop, Illustrator, HTML, CSS, JavaScript (if you want to be able to bring those designs into workable formats).



One of the problems with going into education; a college or uni, to learn this trade is that you'll be obsolete when you come out. This industry moves at lightspeed, so what you get taught during the course will often be on it's way out; if not obsolete already, before you are even out there. The basic principals can be learned through education properly, but the tech itself you can find yourself coming out and feel like you are a dinosaur.

 

[lynxus]

Yep, You can learn it all by yourself.

Tizag do loads of free tutorials that are easy to follow and not too long.

It will however take time. but stick with it and you will be fine. As you learn new methods, you will come up with ideas yourself.. Try them out.. Make a webpage. Play about.

Its the best way to learn.
( Im 100% self taught )

 

[TotallySport]

Sorry I have to disagree, they are not good resources. W3Schools is well known for being poor.

I'd recommend the Sitepoint Reference over w3schools.

In fact, go to www.sitepoint.com - its a "web design/development" site with articles, a massive forum, books (digital and physical copy) and an extensive reference that is far superior to w3schools, htmldog etc.

Yes sorry I know the references are poor, keeping up with HTML at the moment is a nightmare in itself, but they are a good resource, but not good to teach you how to do what.

I point to note, is my son did a night class in web programing which was in asp.net however it was in win forms which has been superseeded with MVC and was in VB which is so out of date it shouldn't be taught and the benefits of learning in C# as massive compared to VB as the syntax will also help with Javascript and many other stuff.

There are benefits to being taught, having that ability to one to one, for some will speed everything up, my son still took alot away as sitting and not understanding stuff made it hard to stay interested.

One thing to consider is to take a none volational cause at a training provide for a fast pickup then go self taught.

 

[FIZIX Agency]

Yes sorry I know the references are poor, keeping up with HTML at the moment is a nightmare in itself, but they are a good resource, but not good to teach you how to do what.

Sorry, I don't think they are a good reference at all.

Take this, on W3Schools:

http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_forms.asp

1. Bad initial description "HTML Forms are used to select different kinds of user input."

2. No notes on labels

3. Trivial input type descriptions

4. No description of form methods

5. Example forms use GET instead of POST, without mentioning POST's and when GET and POST should be used.

6. HTML5 form elements and attributes thrown into additional sections that are to be frank, not that useful.


Now compare that to this:

http://reference.sitepoint.com/html/elements-form

While not perfect, it groups forms together as one thing; with a decent description.

The main areas of interest are clear, selecting "form" takes you to a detailed description of the form element, the references to other form elements and attributes are linked.

The description of each element, how they work, their compatibility and so on are clearly described, the examples useful and in context and they support user contributed notes.

Overall, it's a strong reference; when backed up by their other materials such as books and tutorials, it's an all in one reference that is really useful.

W3Schools is basically useless.

I point to note, is my son did a night class in web programing which was in asp.net however it was in win forms which has been superseeded with MVC and was in VB which is so out of date it shouldn't be taught and the benefits of learning in C# as massive compared to VB as the syntax will also help with Javascript and many other stuff.

Thats the problem with the classroom, it's very difficult for the person teaching to stay up to date, so out of date stuff gets taught.

It's debateable whether ASP is that useful to teach as a first language without specific reason, PHP is much more widely used and as a language is probably more useful. Also due to the nature of the language it's easier to pick up.


Other than that, I agree with your comments.

 

[adepta]

I don't think you're own your own when it comes to w3schools, Fizix : http://w3fools.com/.

 

[Trust Malcolm]

I'd agree with the point that the best web guys are self taught. The mentality of such individuals is such that their thirst for knowledge helps them overcome the tricky bits due to dogged determination and interminable patience. Some folks find learning online like wading through treacle as when you hit a problem there's no one to ask, but forums are a great thing and if I've learned anything, computer geeks (like us!!!) love to share info and knowledge.

Why not learn the basics of coding and then top up your knowledge with an evening class where you'll meet loads of like minded bods.
Good Luck!
Malcolm

 

[FIZIX Agency]

I don't think you're own your own when it comes to w3schools, Fizix : http://w3fools.com/.

That link makes me very happy

 

[hmig89]

I use treehouse www.teamtreehouse.com great video tutorials.

 

[Fred_the_frog]

Why has no one mentioned Code Academy yet!?

It's an interactive website that teaches you to code. There are lots of projects on there to complete too!

www.codeacademy.com

 

[ScotComp]

I'm self taught but when I was at University I done some courses in Web Design.

The lectures at University were all clueless to be honest, the standards weren't very high at all.

 

[RedEvo]

This question comes up a lot. On the one hand you can learn how to do many things without formal training. Sites like lynda.com etc have tons of learning materials on them.

However, learning to use software, learning to write mark-up etc doesn't make a person a designer. Although I wouldn't go to university to learn jQuery or HTML5, I would go to learn to be a designer. Design courses last 3 years in the UK (actually 4 years in Scotland). That's 3 (or 4) years of full time education to become a designer (graphic/product/whatever).

There are some great self taught people in all fields. However, as the industry matures base level qualifications will become the norm. Even now many agencies will ask for design degrees because they know learning 'code' is easy, learning design isn't.

Just my view

d

 

[hmig89]

My personal opinion is that if you can afford to study for it formally then do it, web design is not just about learning code, it's about having correct spacing between elements and colour theory. HTML and CSS are only the start, it takes time and experience and you learn by doing. Practise, practise, practise.

I say formally study because there are some best practices that you are thought that area not so widely spoken on the web, ie typography, it's becoming more popular now, but before it would really only be something that you could educate yourself in at formal education level.

 

[FIZIX Agency]

My personal opinion is that if you can afford to study for it formally then do it, web design is not just about learning code, it's about having correct spacing between elements and colour theory. HTML and CSS are only the start, it takes time and experience and you learn by doing. Practise, practise, practise.

I say formally study because there are some best practices that you are thought that area not so widely spoken on the web, ie typography, it's becoming more popular now, but before it would really only be something that you could educate yourself in at formal education level.

You can learn about interaction design, UI design and UX design without formal training; as you can typography. I also don't agree that typography is only becoming popular and talked about now; its been talked about for a long time, Sitepoint; one of the biggest web design/development communities in the world have a whole forum section dedicated to it and have had for a long time.

While what you have highlighted is correct, the OP would be wanting to enter a course that focused heavily on subjects such as interaction design, UI and UX design, content design etc. rather than "web design".

I would say, in fact, that the web is now so broad and has matured to a point where "web designer" is a wooly term; there are many specialisms and people will slot into one of them.

 

[mustoewebcreation]

Define web design?
Do you want to learn html/css?

I am self taught, I label myself a web designer, however I create my websites using wordpress and magento.

There is so much to learn, html/css is basic and straight forward, the way I started was with html, downloaded a few free html templates, changed and modified the template, experimented and understood how a website is created and what each mark up means.

What most people want these days are many functions and interactive websites, more than what html & java can do alone.

Your ability needs to be greater than basic to break into the market of web design.

Learn a niche, WordPress, Joomla, Magento, oscommerce....

It took me 18 months from when I first looked at html to make money from web design. Guess what it was from a wordpress site.

2 years on I am still learning.

 

[TotallySport]

Sorry, I don't think they are a good reference at all.

Take this, on W3Schools:

http://www.w3schools.com/html/html_forms.asp

1. Bad initial description "HTML Forms are used to select different kinds of user input."

2. No notes on labels

3. Trivial input type descriptions

4. No description of form methods

5. Example forms use GET instead of POST, without mentioning POST's and when GET and POST should be used.

6. HTML5 form elements and attributes thrown into additional sections that are to be frank, not that useful.


Now compare that to this:

http://reference.sitepoint.com/html/elements-form

While not perfect, it groups forms together as one thing; with a decent description.

The main areas of interest are clear, selecting "form" takes you to a detailed description of the form element, the references to other form elements and attributes are linked.

The description of each element, how they work, their compatibility and so on are clearly described, the examples useful and in context and they support user contributed notes.

Overall, it's a strong reference; when backed up by their other materials such as books and tutorials, it's an all in one reference that is really useful.

W3Schools is basically useless.






Thats the problem with the classroom, it's very difficult for the person teaching to stay up to date, so out of date stuff gets taught.

It's debateable whether ASP is that useful to teach as a first language without specific reason, PHP is much more widely used and as a language is probably more useful. Also due to the nature of the language it's easier to pick up.


Other than that, I agree with your comments.

If your learning html, then w3wchools is a good resource, it simply shows shows clean simple code in a very simple example, the bit I think w3schools is lacking is it has stopped evolving, and now with the new html you can no longer learn how to use html with w3schools, but its very easy to refer to for tags and elements of tags.

I dissagree with your comments on php, php is web only, if you learn ASP.NET MVC your learning OOP and C# which can easily be be put into other aspects of programming, such as apps, desktop applications and C# has a similar syntax to other C languages and javascript, it also intergrates JQuery. the amount of libraries and code is amazing. The problem ASP.NET has at the moment is the parts which make it work are improving faster than the tutorials are being produced.

ASP.NET MVC 4, with Entity framework 5, Automapper, and autofac are amazing

At the end of the day, web wise they can both do the same thing, but the scope of asp.net IMO is much wider, but I know I will never convince you of that.

 

[Alan]

Some say the only good thing about W3Shools is their ability at SEO.

 

[TotallySport]

looking through book marks and found this:

http://channel9.msdn.com/Series/HTML5-CSS3-Fundamentals-Development-for-Absolute-Beginners

if you look through the series theres some very good ones

 

[ITsoldUK]

Hi all, I'm basically asking if you think it would be possible to self-teach web design? if so are there any resources out there which would help me on my quest? and also a list of good software programs would be highly appreciated.

Before I answer and of course, assuming you ever return to reply, do you want to learn it as a hobby or as a service?

 

[hmig89]

Would be nice to hear back from the OP, I personally like go on dribble sometime and look at UI design, always inspired with that! Learning to design and code is a commitment you have to practise it daily for a good amount of time or you will forget it after a short while.

I think the books where called don't make me think and design of every day things, they will help you get started and maybe make you feel different about design.

 

[35173]

Dreamweaver is a good WYSIWYG program, although it costs a bit, otherwise I've heard that Joomla is good, but with Dreamweaver you can actually see the code behind it as well. There are some free templates here at www .ittrainingsolutions .co .uk/free-web-site-designs-templates-designer/free-website-designs-adobe-dreamweaver-easy-to-use.asp (remove spaces) that can help you get started.

 

[TickledPink]

Yep. I have to agree with the posters who believe that self-taught is best. However, it doesn't hurt to go back to education at some point.

A friend of mine is self-taught and has been doing web design for a few years for a company. A year or so ago he finished a HND in photography, a course which also included some elements of design. I think he gained more confidence from that and has recently set up his own web design business.

It is true what some people have said about self-taught individuals being thirsty for knowledge. I taught myself programming in the 80's. I remember teaching myself 68000 and 6502 assembly languages in the space of two weeks in 1991 (I'm a bit of a retro head so still use 6502 on my old Atari 8-bits from time to time). Since then I must have taught myself a dozen programming languages from C++ (which I had to relearn over the past couple of months), C#, PHP, god knows how many BASICs, PASCAL, COBOL ... and so forth. Forgotten most of them by now, though. I don't have any programming qualifications, although I have completed a Law degree. Bizarre, I know.

The problem with being self-taught and going into business for yourself is that if things go belly up it could be difficult to demonstrate to prospective employers that you have the skills they need. Too many employers ignore the self-taught and concentrate on those who have completed college or university courses.

 

[urthdog]

you can of course do it the very easy way on sites like Moonfruit dot come,
I've made 5 sites on there for very little money they have some good templates, I suppose it depends on what you want to do. You can put some very professional looking websites on some of these free site builders.
I find the meta tagging and content the hardest bit but I'm learning

 

[The Developer]

It is definately possible to pickup self-taught but it does require a certain thirst for knowledge and dedication to learning.

One of the tricks from my experience is to view the world and everything around you as a chance to grow and develop.

 

[35173]

It depends I suppose on your learning style. Some people can learn on their own with a book whereas some need a teacher, full time education isn't necessarily the only option, there are also short courses available from private training organisations. I say that because that is what my company does, but I'm not trying to sell our courses here, it's just to look at all the options. Sometimes getting two or three books on the topic can be very useful if you manage that way. If you are interested in short courses, however, we have some here:
http://www.ittrainingsolutions.co.u...dreamweaver-introduction-training-courses.asp

http://www.ittrainingsolutions.co.u...tent-management-system-courses-north-east.asp

It depends what works best for you, but I would say that it is doable. Just note that there is a sea of information out there, you'll never know it all, and (just in my experience), there will always be someone who will make you feel like a newbie, so just get used to the feeling, there are people who have been working in web design for years and who know the history of everything and the details of any web-related subject from css (the easy side) to complex server management, to database driven enormous sites, to, well, you name it. But it's a great job because there is always more to learn!

Have fun.