Invoice dispute with client

[thekitchendesigner]

I issued an invoice to a regular, established client back in September 08 for just under £1k. This was for freelance services to them, charged at my normal hourly rate - the same rate i had when i first started doing work for them

To date, they still havent paid. I have had a great relationship with them and though this was odd.

I have spent weeks and weeks chasing, and recently they've started avoiding my calls. I managed to catch him out by calling him from another mobile shortly after my call and he answered

I gave up chasing today and started to fill out the online moneyclaim form, and informed they're receptionist that i was doing so, and to make sure the message got to them.

All of a sudden i get a call from him (after weeks of numerous ignored calls) saying that they are disputing the hours i have charge for. When i asked why he hadnt queried it in september, when the invoice was issued, he said "i'm not prepared to answer that"

I was gobsmacked. The reason they gave is that they have someone else now doing "the same" work as me and he charges less and takes less time, and they though that they werent getting value for money from me.

This is a client who has used me for nearly 2 years without any query, and as soon as i threaten court action - this happens!!

They have asked me to justify my hours, and i have offered my time sheets which he said "anyone can write a timesheet out". I then asked to see some examples of this other persons work, which he was very cagey about. He is sending an example.

However i know for a fact he doesnt use the same CAD system as me (there are many and they all give different results and have different levels of complexity)

I feel this is a complete cop out as no matter how i try and justify this he wont accept it! I also asked how experienced this new chap was and he laughed at me, saying whats that got to do with it - in my eyes, lots - what you charge as a consultant reflects your service, level of experience and quality of work.

I am tempted still to file the claim as i dont think his defence is resonable or fair. no 2 freelance designers are the same so how can he expect this to be fair??

Any advice is more than welcome as i'm fuming!

Cheers, Mark

 

[Tej]

From a business point of view.. it seems you have lost your long standing customer. I cannot see how he can question the invoice, particularly as he has been paying at a similar rate over the past 2 years.
I would definitly file a claim... don't think you will lose any money. If he does come back because the other freelance guy lets him down... then it should be on your "new terms"

IMO

 

[FireFleur]

It is the recession, people love to do this, and it really burns the bridges.

You probably won't want to work with him again, at the end of this, too much emotion.

Well good luck, it is a game getting the money out, and it does make you think escrow should be an always on option.

They probably just don't have the money, something may have fallen through for them, that's the charitable way of looking at it. But, really I prefer people to explain that early and then set up other payment methods but they never do, not matter how much that is hinted at.

Neither a lender or a borrower be, that is the only way I think when I think of moments like this

 

[lesliedocherty]

Take him to court, seems the relationship is broken and youv lost him as a customer through no fault of your own, he might not be comparing like for like.

 

[thekitchendesigner]

Hi all - i certainly wont be wanting to work with him again, not after this.

Lesley - this is my point to him. There are many factors in why people charge what they do and just because he's found someone who charges less doesnt give him the right to query my invoice!

The fact he left it nearly 4 months before bringing it up is so weak though

 

[blackandwhite1986]

It's a sorry situation. We have had a similiar experience with two very long standing and previously on time paying customers. Although it did not come to court action we now insist on pro forma payment from them. They really kicked up a stink but it came to the point where we were having to factor and pay interest because they would not pay. Its a hardline to take but for the sake of paying them lip service you have to balance the fact you are trying to run a business. Best of luck to you matey in sorting them out

 

[thekitchendesigner]

Oh how the plot thickens.

Ive just spoken to someone who is a mutual contact. He had a meeting with these clients yesterday about their involvement with them etc.

Anyway, turns out this other person they are trying to compare me with is a commission only salesman based in the store (i'm a design consultant working remotely!!) and THEY offered him a small fee for also doing some of the stuff i did.

This small fee THEY offered him is what they are using to dispute my invoice, and neglecting to tell me he also gets a commission on top - which would be equal to at least 3 to 6 times what i charge, maybe even 10 times, as i'm not commission based!......

 

[Marzipan]

I'll start by saying I'm no legal expert. However, having had a similar experience with a customer a year or so back I would say they won't have much of a defence to any claim you make. They're trying it on, they think that this pathetic counter attack will weaken you and you'll drop any claim, maybe thinking that you stand less chance of winning. Get those small claims papers filled in - you can still drop it at any time, but let them know you mean business.

 

[lesliedocherty]

I agree, file the papers, they have no defence, you'll win, feel better and move on, lesson learned.

 

[ServersandSpares]

I would have thought it is irrelevant what they are paying somebody else to do a job, they had agreed your terms before and are just coping out on paying you. Don't even get into the argument of trying to compare yourself, just take it further. A solicitors letter might do the trick, won't cost you much and might even save you going to court, its one option to llok at.

I did see somewhere on here but can't find it now, an advertisement for an online debt collection agency that would call or send a letter for a one off fixed cost, if you can find it or anyone can link it might be an another option.

Julie

 

[graemepirie]

Just one cautionary point - how much of your chasing is in writing?

The court will expect to see chase letters & a "letter before action" advising him that if he doesn't pay within x days you will take legal action.

If it's all been verbal I'd suggest you at the very least send him a letter asking for immediate payment and stating that following four months of unsuccessfully seeking payment you will have no option but to take legal action if the account is not settled in full in the next seven days. Make it very straight & to the point - do not get into disputes over the amount of the invoice.

 

[Peter Bowen]

Just one cautionary point - how much of your chasing is in writing?

The court will expect to see chase letters & a "letter before action" advising him that if he doesn't pay within x days you will take legal action.

Good point.

Why don't you sign up for the free package (it's limited to 5 simultaneous invoices but that's more than enough to chase this one guy) at www.getting-paid.com. It's got the letters pre-written and will email them off at regular intervals and also keeps a chasing history so you can easily prove what you've done to try and get the client to pay.

Having a system do the chasing also helps keep the emotion out of it. I don't know about you but I used to get knots in my stomach and shaky hands with anger and frustration when I would think about people who I did a good job for who wouldn't pay.

Cheers

Pete

 

[thekitchendesigner]

Hi All,

Well, i'm glad to say that 2 days before their 7 days notice ran out (letter was sent last week), i have recieved full payment!!

The client is still insistant on blackening my name and thought i was taking advantage of them - something i would never even contemplate with any client

There were so many points they couldnt answer it was unreal. I asked them 3 times why it had taken them nearly 4 months to query, and i still havent got any answer to that! They then started saying i must be desperate for money!

If what they were saying about me was so true, then they surely would have put up a defence against me and let it go to court....!!??

Anyway, thanks to all who replied to the thread - it really helped push me in the right direction and the end result is positive.

Kind regards, Mark

 

[Tej]

Glad you got it sorted!

 

[spencergate]

Mark, I suspect that your client is struggling with cash flow, and have held back your payment because they are very close to the wire. This also explains why they have tried to reduce the amount. Trust me, having traded thru the last recession, I've seen this type of behaviour before.

Also please learn a lesson from this. No matter how good a relationship you have with a client, chase payments AS SOON AS they are due. The longer you allow a debt to stand, the harder it is to collect.

 

[thekitchendesigner]

You're correct. I also spotted a press release from mid-2008 from the clients after they had installed trackers to their work vans, in order to save approx £400 a month in fuel, and get more hours out of their staff. They also got rid of all their sales and admin staff a few months ago (4 or 5 people i think) and ran it themselves, and now work with 1 commission only salesman. So many clues coming through!

I will also chase much sooner having now been in this situation - all part of the learning curve!!

 

[lesliedocherty]

Just shows what the threat of legal action does, when they know you are serious you get paid, but glad to hear it.

 

[Lincs Debt Collection]

I see this sort of thing a lot and can save people a lot of the headache non payers cause.

www.rentbailiffs.com
Lincolnshire Debt Collection