Insolvency and directors statutory redundancy pay

Richard Dastardly

Free Member
Mar 7, 2020
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Hi

I have some rather detailed questions about director redundancy payments after the insolvency of my limited company. I hope someone who knows their stuff can be bothered to read this lengthy tome!

Some of the facts and figures have been edited a little so as to protect those involved.

My company was made insolvent on 26th October and is now in the hands of the liquidator.

I drew a directors salary from the company since 1st November 2015.

When I claim my redundancy, notice period and holiday pay, I am confused as to what info to give the Redudnancy Service.

For instance - did I give myself a months notice on 26th September? Or was I given no notice and my employment ended on the insolvency of the company on 26th October? And then I would claim my notice period from 26th October?

I wasn't paid for October (but should have been if the company wasn't insolvent), so if I put a redundancy date of 26th October will I shoot myself in the foot because I won't have a payslip for October, and wasn't paid anything?

I have asked my contact at my IP firm, but as with a lot of my questions to him, he responds with a 'it's your decision' answer - which is unhelpful and I dont know whether he simply doesn't know himeslf, or he is duty bound not to advise (I seem to have been handed down to someone relatively inexperienced).

Additionally, the IP suggested the insolvency date of 26th October. It was only on turning my attention to my redundancy pay that I realised that I was actually almost another full year to my anniversary of employment, the 1st November, missing it by only a few days.

It appears to me in hindsight that if they had booked in the insolvency date literally 4 days later I would have been entitled to an additional year of redundancy - which would be 1.5 weeks redundancy pay, 1 weeks notice and 1 weeks holiday pay!!!!! Is that correct? I suppose it depends on the answer to the first part of this question, and what dates I am made redundant and what date my notice period claim is from.

The date they set was arbitrary so another question is: are they deemed under their duty to shorten the insolvency period as much as possible to decrease any redundancy payments..- or did they simply not even clock it and overlook it because they are a bit crap and / or basically don't care whether I get an extra years redundancy payment or not..? (Which is a bit rich considering the fee I have paid them).

And finally - is there anyway I can get them to either move my employment start date back to October 26th 2015 or anything? My initial calculations show I may have lost out on £1200 statutory redundancy pay just because they put the final Insolvency meeting 4 days earlier. (And considering I have just gone bust, that money would have been pretty useful...)

Cheers
RD
 

Gavin Bates

Business Member
  • Business Listing
    Hi

    as you say a lot of questions but I will try my best.

    Normally the employees would receive a letter confirming the date of redundancy. If you haven’t I would assume the 26th October is the date.

    if no notice was given then you received no notice and can claim this from the government scheme.

    Also if you didn’t receive notice and it was 26th October then your notice period would take you past 1 November and so you would receive your extra year.

    if you weren’t paid for October then you claim this.

    in terms of setting the date there are some minimum periods of time that IP’s have to follow but no maximum but to be honest it normally set as a date when all parties are available and within a reasonable period of time.

    I hope this helps.
     
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    Richard Dastardly

    Free Member
    Mar 7, 2020
    33
    11
    Hi

    as you say a lot of questions but I will try my best.

    Normally the employees would receive a letter confirming the date of redundancy. If you haven’t I would assume the 26th October is the date.

    if no notice was given then you received no notice and can claim this from the government scheme.

    Also if you didn’t receive notice and it was 26th October then your notice period would take you past 1 November and so you would receive your extra year.

    if you weren’t paid for October then you claim this.

    in terms of setting the date there are some minimum periods of time that IP’s have to follow but no maximum but to be honest it normally set as a date when all parties are available and within a reasonable period of time.

    I hope this helps.
    That's super helpful, thanks a lot Gavin!
     
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    Lisa Thomas

    Business Member
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    Apr 20, 2015
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    When did you sign the board minute and/or engagement letters resolving to instruct the Liquidators - to my mind this is the date on which you knew for definite you were being made redundant.

    I suspect you may want someone to hold your hand through this process.

    I can recommend Caroline Thomas (no relation) from UK ELC.

    https://ukelc.co.uk/contact/
     
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    Richard Dastardly

    Free Member
    Mar 7, 2020
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    Thanks Lisa
    I signed the engagement letters with the IP on 15th September.
    Is this a question my own IP should be assisting me with? As I mentioned, I have asked them already regarding this, but they seem to want me to tell them the dates I became redundant - and I don't know whether that's because they are duty bound to not coach me; or whether the person I am dealing with simply doesn't know.
     
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    ChrisCallaghan

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    Apr 10, 2018
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    Richard,

    Calculating directors redundancies can be tricky at the best of times. As you've suggested, your appointed IP cannot always assist as much you would expect or like. Ultimately an IP is not often an employment or redundancy specialist, and don't want to risk tying themselves to specific advice on how you claim.

    As Lisa has suggested, it may be worth considering seeking help with your claim from a 3rd party. Several of my clients have used UK ELC in the past and speak highly of them.
     
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    Richard Dastardly

    Free Member
    Mar 7, 2020
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    Richard,

    Calculating directors redundancies can be tricky at the best of times. As you've suggested, your appointed IP cannot always assist as much you would expect or like. Ultimately an IP is not often an employment or redundancy specialist, and don't want to risk tying themselves to specific advice on how you claim.

    As Lisa has suggested, it may be worth considering seeking help with your claim from a 3rd party. Several of my clients have used UK ELC in the past and speak highly of them.

    Cheers Chris
    What kind of fees do they charge? I'd have to balance that with what extra money I think I would get above what I could get by getting a handle on this myself and doing it on my own...
    So far from the advise received above, I think as Lisa said, the day I instructed the IP was the day that I knew I would be made redundant - but that wasn't the actual day unless I'd given myself notice, which I didn't. Surely an employee could be required to carry on in employment for whatever reason whilst the company had instructed an IP? As Gavin says, the actual day of redundancy must be the 26th October, the date of insolvency, because then everyone employed is automatically dismissed anyway - and then I would also have my notice period on top of that which as Gavin suggests would shoot me past 1st November in order to give me an additional years redundancy payout.
     
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    ChrisCallaghan

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    Apr 10, 2018
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    I think Gavin's logic is very sound regarding the date of insolvency + your notice pay. I understand the desire to get the most out of your redundancy pay without having to pay any further additional fees, but professional help from experts in this field may help maximise your claim. UK ELC (other providers are available) are very transparent about their fees, so there is certainly no harm contacting them for a quotation and some initial advice.
     
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    Lisa Thomas

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    The IP cannot help you really - this is because they rely on information given to them from the Company. It is down to the Company to tell them the dates events took place. I suspect this is therefore down to you in this case.

    The IP will then have to scrutinise the information you give and let the RPO know whether or not they accept it. The RPO will then subsequently adjudicate your claim/s.
     
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    Richard Dastardly

    Free Member
    Mar 7, 2020
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    The IP cannot help you really - this is because they rely on information given to them from the Company. It is down to the Company to tell them the dates events took place. I suspect this is therefore down to you in this case.

    The IP will then have to scrutinise the information you give and let the RPO know whether or not they accept it. The RPO will then subsequently adjudicate your claim/s.

    Thanks Lisa. Yes I just couldn't be sure whether the IP were not in a position to advise; or whether they were hiding behind this fact because they didn't know what to advise! But I suppose it makes sense that they can't advise
     
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    Richard Dastardly

    Free Member
    Mar 7, 2020
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    Thanks Lisa. Yes I just couldn't be sure whether the IP were not in a position to advise; or whether they were hiding behind this fact because they didn't know what to advise! But I suppose it makes sense that they can't advise
    Spoke to UKELC
    They said that the insolvency date is the redundancy date, and that I won't be able to claim for the extra year as the notice period does not count towards time employed. So that is the answer. Slightly miffed at my own IP for not clocking this and delaying the Insolvency by literally 5 days so I could get an extra years redundancy. I suppose they don't care though..?
    But thanks so much all for the tips
     
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