Indirect Representative when shipping to Amazon Germany - who does this?

SeanOF

Free Member
Jan 21, 2021
46
10
We're about to ship to Amazon Germany for the first time with our shiny new German VAT number (and French EORI) and I've just learned that we need an Indirect Representative as I thought DHL would do this for us but t turns out not.

I asked our European accountant, AVASK, for help are and they quoted me some rates that seem rather spicy so I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a better option please.

(Apologies, I started this thread with a title looking for Importer of Record but that was a mistake and I'm now not sure how to remove that thread)
 

SeanOF

Free Member
Jan 21, 2021
46
10
@John_V85 Thank you for the reply.

I'm not sure what kind of a relationship I need to have with them. Do they want to ship the items as well? If so, they're welcome to do so.

AVASK want £1k to set it up and 2% of every commercial invoice thereafter. This feels too high.

But I can't help feeling I'm somehow asking the wrong question or going about this the wrong way. Is everyone else doing it this way with an Indirect Representative when selling B2B into the EU As I say, I'm shipping to Amazon's warehouse in Germany so we can sell on the Pan European. Am I missing a trick?
 
Upvote 0

John_V85

Free Member
Jan 11, 2019
95
8
You’re not missing a trick. The % fee is pretty common from our experience. Also don’t forget that will be often based on a deductive valuation, not the “cost” price.

If you’re planning on shipping pallets I suggest you reach out to Regional Express. Nothing will be as easy or cheap as it was before, but that’s what we voted for.
 
Upvote 0
AVASK want £1k to set it up and 2% of every commercial invoice thereafter. This feels too high.
That is quite cheap, so I assume that it is just for deliveries to Amazon. (Remember that sales from Amazon are always B2C.)

I am always keen on new business opportunities and we already have a company in Germany, so I commissioned some legal advice on the subject of and the situation for Germany is far from clear, as the law has yet to be tested in court. No doubt, someone will commission a series of exploratory court cases (Aufklärungprossesse) about the various aspects of the enabling legislation.

The main takeaways are -
  • The Authorized Representative is legally liable for defective or non-compliant devices at the same level as the manufacturer.
  • Anyone using your product should know who your Authorized Representative is. There is a special logo for that and this together with the contact details for the AR must appear on the product, labeling, packaging, and instructions for use.
  • All mandatory documentation should be available at the offices of the AR. These documents may be audited and must be presented to the competent authorities upon request.
Special to Germany -
  • Three-year guarantee.
  • All documentation must be in German.
  • Liability for import duties travels with the product.
  • The AR is liable for any and all laws and regulatory requirements that must be followed.
So, to put it simply, an AR in Germany must carry all the responsibilities and obligations of the manufacturer. The German authorities will only contact and deal with that one person or company. They are extremely unlikely to want to talk to a UK company.

Much of what one hears or is told is bogus. Yes, they may say or write that, but somewhere deep in the contract will be an open-ended penalty clause making you fully liable for any and all damages that they may suffer within the EU. At a guess, even if it is their fault! It would hardly surprise me if a commercial AR asks for a security deposit. Sooner or later, someone at one of these agencies is going to get burnt! German consumer law is especially draconian!

It is an interesting situation and explains why thousands of UK companies have opened EU offices.

So what could happen to the AR?

In 1999, the Aachen computer sales company SEH discovered that the import duty on CPUs and other chips that came to them via a Swiss import agency may not have been paid for the past ten years. They had done nothing wrong, but the Swiss agency had been dissolved and no proof of payment could be provided to the Finanzamt (HMRC equivalent). Maybe they had paid and maybe that had not paid and did a runner! But the Finanzamt, obviously unable to proceed within Switzerland, wanted proof and therefore sent SEH a bill for 60m Deutschmark. SEH was instantly kaput!

Similar issues exist with safety rules. If some bogus Chinese manufacturer's CE procedures are not in accordance with the rules as laid down by the Commission, it is the EURP (EU Responsible Person) that is liable for the €100,000 (max) fine and for a total product recall. The consequences under liability law extend to criminal prosecution, so it is the EURP that gets a criminal record!

As of July last year, fines for simple procedural mistakes were increased from €3k to €10k and fines for actual endangerment went from €30k to €100k.

Here are some of the misdemeanors that the EURP will be held responsible for -
  • Errors in the CE marking, e.g. the CE mark is attached, although it is not needed.
  • The CE mark is misused in other ways.
  • There is an incorrect CE marking on a product.
  • The EC declaration of conformity is not provided.
  • Instructions for use in German are not supplied.
  • Installation instructions in German required for using the product are not provided.
  • Required information and labeling in German are missing for consumer products.
  • Technical documents in German are not provided.
  • The EURP does not cooperate sufficiently with the labour inspectorate.
  • Despite clear indications of the dangers to safety and health emanating from its product, the company has not informed the responsible market supervisory authority and has thus violated the obligation to disclose.
So you see that the role of the EURP extends far beyond that of a nominal person on the ground. He/she is far more than just an import representative and the full weight of the law rests on that person or company.

One way around these new rules is to form your own GmbH. Another is to use the Amazon fulfillment service - they are more than big enough to carry such responsibilities!
 
Upvote 0
Authorized Representative vs Indirect Representation.

Are we talking about the same thing?
No. IR is for customs, AR is for everything else and can deal with customs as well. German law requires an AR if you import ten or more times a year. Then you MUST have a legal presence WITHIN the EU and all the rules listed above apply.

(Leaving the EU was a very silly thing to do! Don't do it again!)
 
Upvote 0

AlderleyMan

Free Member
Aug 24, 2020
17
0
No. IR is for customs, AR is for everything else and can deal with customs as well. German law requires an AR if you import ten or more times a year. Then you MUST have a legal presence WITHIN the EU and all the rules listed above apply.

(Leaving the EU was a very silly thing to do! Don't do it again!)

Having read up on this the AR is for B2C but not required for B2B
 
Upvote 0

Mister B

Free Member
Aug 31, 2007
2,658
639
Amazon have just reintroduced the Partered Carrier Scheme with UPS and in order to enrol, you have to sign up with a third party company who will act as your IOR.

In order for them to do this, they will require a subcription fee of 599 euros per annum plus 1.8% of the invoice value. In addition to this, they require a substantial deposit to cover themselves in case it all goes Pete Tong.

The programme is invite only, and we were invited last week but quickly declined. In our humble opinion, the scheme is adding another legal layer of complexity to an already complex process. In the short term, we will continue to send with UPS via World Options.

As a footnote, if you're going down the PAN EU route, you need VAT registration in all 7 countries.
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Byre
Upvote 0

SeanOF

Free Member
Jan 21, 2021
46
10
Amazon have just reintroduced the Partered Carrier Scheme with UPS and in order to enrol, you have to sign up with a third party company who will act as your IOR.

......

As a footnote, if you're going down the PAN EU route, you need VAT registration in all 7 countries.
@Mister B You've introduced a new acronym here "IOR" - is this a typo and did you just mean "IR" for Indirect Representative? This is all very confusing!

And to your footnote, it's 6 countries for the VAT registration isn't it, not 7? I count Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Czech Republic & Poland. I believe Ireland may come next year but for now its just 6... or have I been misinformed?
 
Upvote 0

John_V85

Free Member
Jan 11, 2019
95
8
As a footnote, if you're going down the PAN EU route, you need VAT registration in all 7 countries.
While that used to be the case, it is not strictly true anymore. It is possible to selectively use the benefits of PAN EU, only permitting Amazon to store your inventory in certain markets, and benefiting from standardised fees in these only. Sales to the other EU markets would then be charged on an MCF basis.
 
Upvote 0

apricot

Free Member
  • Apr 7, 2012
    585
    76
    Why are you using DHL? I tried to twice and they to send the products and I got them back after two months!

    I can't say anything good but I've been sending with Regional Express, you just need an international Accountant who does all VAT returns.

    Amazon has just started with UPS but I haven't given it a try yet. I think this is their 5th attempt to work with UPS, It may work this time.
     
    Upvote 0

    Mister B

    Free Member
    Aug 31, 2007
    2,658
    639
    @Mister B You've introduced a new acronym here "IOR" - is this a typo and did you just mean "IR" for Indirect Representative? This is all very confusing!

    And to your footnote, it's 6 countries for the VAT registration isn't it, not 7? I count Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Czech Republic & Poland. I believe Ireland may come next year but for now its just 6... or have I been misinformed?
    IOR = Importer of record.

    My apologies, it's 6 and not 7,
     
    Upvote 0

    Mister B

    Free Member
    Aug 31, 2007
    2,658
    639
    While that used to be the case, it is not strictly true anymore. It is possible to selectively use the benefits of PAN EU, only permitting Amazon to store your inventory in certain markets, and benefiting from standardised fees in these only. Sales to the other EU markets would then be charged on an MCF basis.
    True, but in our experience the increase in cost to be registered in all countries is negligible. By registering in all, we benefit from the reduces fees and also are avoiding the possibility of returned orders being held in a marketplace for which we are not registered for VAT in. Which in turn brings it's own problems.
     
    Upvote 0

    John_V85

    Free Member
    Jan 11, 2019
    95
    8
    True, but in our experience the increase in cost to be registered in all countries is negligible. By registering in all, we benefit from the reduces fees and also are avoiding the possibility of returned orders being held in a marketplace for which we are not registered for VAT in. Which in turn brings it's own problems.
    It's a fair point, but one also has to balance it, amongst other things, against Amazon, e.g. deciding to send all your inventory to FC's in Southern Italy when all your sales are in Germany and the competitive disadvantage with delivery times that that creates.
     
    Upvote 0

    Latest Articles