Impossible to go self-employed

TheNewEntrepeneur

Free Member
Nov 10, 2009
66
4
Hi,

I have spent several years planning a business for the future which I was ready to start up recently. However, I have been doing a lot of research as I wanted to do everything legitimately but the more I learn about it the more ridiculously difficult it seems to be and it's now got to the point where it just seems nigh on impossible - especially the legal side of things.

I was once told that a good entrepeneur doesn't worry about the technicalities and just gets on and does it and learns along the way. However, I've also found out that business owners are responsible for finding out the law for themselves and are responsible whether they are well-informed or not and could get fined or shut down for not following the correct legislation.

My business is basically ready to go, I could start it up right now if I wanted to, but legally there are a number of things preventing me from doing so.

I am currently unemployed and on benefits (which is why I want to go self-employed) but to work more than 16 hours a week (which would be necessary) I would have to claim working tax credits and I'm not expecting to make a profit from my first year, therefore the tax credits would not be enough to cover rent and council and keep my family. We would be a lot worse off financially than we are now and we're struggling now.

The only other way is to take advantage of the benefits disregard whereby I can earn £10 per week and anything over is deducted from my benefits (income support) but that requires working less than 16 hours a week and I would lose most of the money that I earn.

So both situations are catch-22 scenarios and wouldn't help us at all - we'd either be worse off or be in the same position but working part-time which doesn't seem worth it.

There's no way that I can generate enough income in the first year in order to be independent of social security benefits which basically makes it impossible for me to go self employed.

And this is just scratching the surface. Even if I did go into business there's that whole load of ridiculous to understand legislation and high costs required such as registering as a data controller, ensuring that anti-money laundering laws are in place, getting registered with all the appropriate bodies and so much more.

It seems to me that UK is an economically corrupt country where the rich get richer and the poor get stuck.

How on earth do people get around all this stuff? My luck in the past has been so bad I bet that if I went ahead and tried to do it all legitimately I would most likely get accused of benefit fraud or something ridiculously simialr.
 
Hi,

I was once told that a good entrepeneur doesn't worry about the technicalities and just gets on and does it and learns along the way. However, I've also found out that business owners are responsible for finding out the law for themselves and are responsible whether they are well-informed or not and could get fined or shut down for not following the correct legislation.

Ah! the Arfur Daley school of business... You were told wrong! And thankfully you've found out the truth for yourself! So many don't! and they're a danger to themselves and every other business they come into contact with!

But your business isn't ready to go! You just don't have the money to capitalise it.

I started work in 1979 and from day one knew that one day I wanted to own my own business. And from day one I salted money away to fund that ambition. I completed my apprenticeship in 1983. It was 1986 before I was ready to make the move and drop out of full-time employment. I've never had a penny in grants or support from anyone.

I'm afraid you need to flip burgers or sweep streets for a while, maybe take the first few steps to running your business on a part time basis. But really part of your business plan should be how you're gong to eat for whatever period of time it takes for you to develop an income...
 
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the whole point of WTC is it gives you an income, if you don`t make enough to recieve a "credit" they actually give you the money - add in school dinners, dental and scripts too




go for it .............................
 
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TheNewEntrepeneur

Free Member
Nov 10, 2009
66
4
Exactly! I can't get work, I've been unemployed for so long that I'm probably unemployable right now and there is no work in this area anyway.

For the first time in years I can go to the jobcentre and not one vacancy comes up on their computer.

Which is why I want to go self-employed... but I can't for basically the very same reason!

The business itself has bearly any running costs which is what makes it so great. But knowing how much it would cost to start it up legitimately is just not even worth bothering, it would take me the rest of my life to pay it off and I'd never make a profit anyway.

Like I said, the rich get richer and the poor get stuck. There's just no help whastoever out there for people like me, I'm destined for failure for the rest of my life (yep, I'm a miserable old ****** - I'm sure you can understand why).
 
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Tej

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Oct 26, 2008
3,340
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Kent
To the OP.. note in the other thread that you were a chef..and earning reasonable money with a "not so hard a job"
You gave that up to be a "web designer".. why?
and now you are on benefits!

ain't easy being an entrepreneur..

IMO
 
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D

DancingWithPoodles

why are people so scared of the legal bullcrap... forget about his TFGTV guy, he is some maniac and all he can talk about is how you can get stuffed... he is only trying to scare people and let them be losers all their life.

SAy to yourself : **** IT I AM DOING IT.

What is the business?
 
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TheNewEntrepeneur

Free Member
Nov 10, 2009
66
4
Oh yeah, and get totally screwed over, what a great idea. Very mature.

And why on earth would I want to put people off??
I came here for advice from experienced people, not to be whinged at by someone who probably hasn't got a clue what I'm talking about and will never realize what it's really like for people in my situation.
 
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But knowing how much it would cost to start it up legitimately is just not even worth bothering, it would take me the rest of my life to pay it off and I'd never make a profit anyway.

Then do the sums!!! It's simply not a viable, investable business!

Nothing to do with the rich getting richer... I was brought up in Glagow's Red Road Flats... My Mother was a Nurse, my Father had F-d off when I was 18 months old... We lived with my Gran who was a hospital cleaner... And me and FIVE (yes FIVE! ) adopted siblings were brought up on their wages... And Nurses weren't paid at the same level back then as they are now...

You need to re-think your plans and come up with something that, even if you DO have to borrow to start it up, will re-pay that loan and move you forward...

But right now, from what you've said, your business just isn't ready to roll...

...and nobody's going off topic here. People are simply questioning, quite rightly, what makes you think you can satart a business on handouts.
 
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Mpg

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Aug 18, 2009
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Your going to have to give a little bit more information. About your circumstances

At one point we were getting over £700 per month from WTC. Compare that to JSA and it was a no brainer.

What business do you have in mind.

You have to be committed to do whatever it takes to succeed and if your not then mcdonalds are always recruiting.

There are grants out there try businesslink or the princes trust.

If you let us have some more information i'm sure we may be able to help point you in the right direction.
 
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TheNewEntrepeneur

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Nov 10, 2009
66
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I mean, you have 3 months to register as a business... right? If you are to be a web designer, who is going to find out?

Now that's not legitimate and my customers would find out obviously. Also, there are certain laws for web design which would require me to make my details available so everybody.
 
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TheNewEntrepeneur

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Nov 10, 2009
66
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Then do the sums!!! It's simply not a viable, investable business!

Nothing to do with the rich getting richer... I was brought up in Glagow's Red Road Flats... My Mother was a Nurse, my Father had F-d off when I was 18 months old... We lived with my Gran who was a hospital cleaner... And me and FIVE (yes FIVE! ) adopted siblings were brought up on their wages... And Nurses weren't paid at the same level back then as they are now...

You need to re-think your plans and come up with something that, even if you DO have to borrow to start it up, will re-pay that loan and move you forward...

But right now, from what you've said, your business just isn't ready to roll...

...and nobody's going off topic here. People are simply questioning, quite rightly, what makes you think you can satart a business on handouts.

I have. Most of these startup costs apply to any business, no matter what I'm doing, to ensure that it's all 100% legit so it makes no difference what the business is, the costs are still there whetehr I'm a gardener or a web designer.
 
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R

Rhyl Lightworks

I agree the tax/benefit laws are ridiculously complicated and largely counter-productive, but, I think, most people contemplating new business start ups should have enough capital to live on for at least 2 (maybe more) years before the business becomes established.

Barrie
 
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TheNewEntrepeneur

Free Member
Nov 10, 2009
66
4
I agree the tax/benefit laws are ridiculously complicated and largely counter-productive, but, I think, most people contemplating new business start ups should have enough capital to live on for at least 2 (maybe more) years before the business becomes established.

Barrie

Exactly! Which makes it impossible, if I did get the capitol I would have to come straight off benefits or be made to live off it until I reached the savings threshold which would leave me without that capitol to use for the business. It's basically like they're saying 'no, I'm not allowed to have any money' and I'm just stuck in that loop.
 
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Mpg

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Aug 18, 2009
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Which means I would either have to claim WTC and be worse off or take advantage of the £10 disregard and remain skint (as previously mentioned).

Your not going to get anyone to stick their hand in their pockets and give you a handout round here.


Most decent posts on here when someone wants to start a business are positive, yours are self defeating and point to the fact that you dont have what it takes to overcome the first hurdle. Let alone run a succesfull business.
 
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Then why not go to your local supermarket and stack shelves, clean the toilets, push the trollies etc. Anything that will earn you more than sitting at home? Even if it's just another tenner a week, that'll be £500 towards your new business in twelve months time...... It seems as though you are searching for excuses to me?
 
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Mpg

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Aug 18, 2009
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Exactly! Which makes it impossible, if I did get the capitol I would have to come straight off benefits or be made to live off it until I reached the savings threshold which would leave me without that capitol to use for the business. It's basically like they're saying 'no, I'm not allowed to have any money' and I'm just stuck in that loop.



To qualify for income-based JSA, you usually need to have less than £16,000 in savings. You'll also be given less if you have savings over £6,000.

Thats sounds like plenty for you then
 
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TheNewEntrepeneur

Free Member
Nov 10, 2009
66
4
What are these start up costs I started my business with nothing. And my turnover year one was almost £300k

Didnt cost to register
didnt cost for Bank account

Didn't you start off with insurance?

I would need public liability insurance,
professional indemnity insurance,
a trading address to register with
register as a data controller
solicitors fees
etc
 
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TheNewEntrepeneur

Free Member
Nov 10, 2009
66
4
Your not going to get anyone to stick their hand in their pockets and give you a handout round here.


Most decent posts on here when someone wants to start a business are positive, yours are self defeating and point to the fact that you dont have what it takes to overcome the first hurdle. Let alone run a succesfull business.

Because I want to do it legitimately and not get screwed like my father did, he had your attitude and got totally f*cked up the a*se, I guess you're just lucky that you've gotten away with it then.
 
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Mpg

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Aug 18, 2009
1,514
287
Because I want to do it legitimately and not get screwed like my father did, he had your attitude and got totally f*cked up the a*se, I guess you're just lucky that you've gotten away with it then.

I'm completley Legitimate.

But then again i'm actually running a business and not using excuses not to.

£35 per year to register as a data controller

My PL £60 per year
 
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Tej

Free Member
Oct 26, 2008
3,340
1,109
Kent
Hi,

I have spent several years planning a business for the future which I was ready to start up recently. However, I have been doing a lot of research as I wanted to do everything legitimately but the more I learn about it the more ridiculously difficult it seems to be and it's now got to the point where it just seems nigh on impossible - especially the legal side of things.

I was once told that a good entrepeneur doesn't worry about the technicalities and just gets on and does it and learns along the way. However, I've also found out that business owners are responsible for finding out the law for themselves and are responsible whether they are well-informed or not and could get fined or shut down for not following the correct legislation.

My business is basically ready to go, I could start it up right now if I wanted to, but legally there are a number of things preventing me from doing so.

I am currently unemployed and on benefits (which is why I want to go self-employed) but to work more than 16 hours a week (which would be necessary) I would have to claim working tax credits and I'm not expecting to make a profit from my first year, therefore the tax credits would not be enough to cover rent and council and keep my family. We would be a lot worse off financially than we are now and we're struggling now.

The only other way is to take advantage of the benefits disregard whereby I can earn £10 per week and anything over is deducted from my benefits (income support) but that requires working less than 16 hours a week and I would lose most of the money that I earn.

So both situations are catch-22 scenarios and wouldn't help us at all - we'd either be worse off or be in the same position but working part-time which doesn't seem worth it.

There's no way that I can generate enough income in the first year in order to be independent of social security benefits which basically makes it impossible for me to go self employed.

And this is just scratching the surface. Even if I did go into business there's that whole load of ridiculous to understand legislation and high costs required such as registering as a data controller, ensuring that anti-money laundering laws are in place, getting registered with all the appropriate bodies and so much more.

It seems to me that UK is an economically corrupt country where the rich get richer and the poor get stuck.

How on earth do people get around all this stuff? My luck in the past has been so bad I bet that if I went ahead and tried to do it all legitimately I would most likely get accused of benefit fraud or something ridiculously simialr.

Seems you are making excuses.. so as not to work:)

Look around the forum... there are wannabee entrepreneurs by the bucket loads everyday. Some even have 3 and 4 businesses by the time they are 20 years old! ( take with pinch of salt.. being an ex chef you would know)

Journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step... anon

So.. what you gonna do?... sit on your arse and keep making excuses?

If this sounds harsh.. and makes you get up and go... then worth it:)
 
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