Idea for an invention, no money. Where do I start?

[Pizzaiolo]

Hi everyone.

I have an idea for an invention...but I have no money. Where do I start?

I'm almost certain that nothing similar exists. I've searched the UK patent office website and can't find anything.
I'm also concerned about the idea being copied. I gather there is something called a 'provisional patent application', which is (if I understand it correctly) where you apply for the patent and it makes the invention 'patent pending'. Does this stop anyone else from copying it?
As I have absolutely no money (I was a self-employed tradesman, but due to an injury I cant work and am claiming JSA whilst looking for work) I am willing to beg and engineer/factory to make me a prototype under the condition that they sign an NDA, is this a good idea? What exactly does an NDA cover?
I've also thought about crowdfunding, Kickstarter etc (i'm pretty sure the invention would be accepted by Kickstarter based on other projects i've seen on there). Again, is this a good idea?

I really have no idea where to start, and no money either, but have a lot of confidence in my idea.

Any advice is greatly received.

Thanks,
Alex.

 

[paulff]

You've got no money, and if the idea fails - which being honest, a lot of them do - you've got no means in which to pay this money back.

You mention an injury that has stopped you working - would this injury allow you to go to sales pitches, pitch to the public, attend meetings about your product, see buyers etc?

In regards to obtaining funding, there are multiple options:

1. Government backed start-up loan.
2. Crowd Funding

Bare in mind; Number 1 is a LOAN, and you need to pay this money back - but, you don't seem to be in a position to do so.

Number 2 will involve giving away a large portion of your business, larger than you'd like - as you're unproven, your idea is unproven and it's a huge risk for the investors. Also, you'd probably have to have prototypes and patents in place prior to starting this, as you're going to need to show people the product, and also - publicise it online.

It's hard to talk about your product without knowing what it is - but it's going to cost you thousands and thousands to develop - I guarantee that.
Your best bet? If you can, get back in to work, save up - prototype and take it from there.

 

[Moneyman]

Don't panic. try the information on trevor ballis website.
Get a patent pending going and get a NDA
don't worry about manufacturing. the main thing is to get a working prototype ASAP
if you are totally broke try a business angel to fund the applications etc (I have done this loads of times you can pm me for a chat if you like)
99 times out of a hundred the best thing to licence it out to someone in the field who can then make it or sell it as part of their product range. The cost and trouble of selling it yourself would make more profit if it succeeds but cost tens of thousands to do.
Remember it isn't just the idea that is important. It has to be at the right price, which includes all the distribution costs etc

 

[Pizzaiolo]

You've got no money, and if the idea fails - which being honest, a lot of them do - you've got no means in which to pay this money back.

You mention an injury that has stopped you working - would this injury allow you to go to sales pitches, pitch to the public, attend meetings about your product, see buyers etc?

In regards to obtaining funding, there are multiple options:

1. Government backed start-up loan.
2. Crowd Funding

Bare in mind; Number 1 is a LOAN, and you need to pay this money back - but, you don't seem to be in a position to do so.

Number 2 will involve giving away a large portion of your business, larger than you'd like - as you're unproven, your idea is unproven and it's a huge risk for the investors. Also, you'd probably have to have prototypes and patents in place prior to starting this, as you're going to need to show people the product, and also - publicise it online.

It's hard to talk about your product without knowing what it is - but it's going to cost you thousands and thousands to develop - I guarantee that.
Your best bet? If you can, get back in to work, save up - prototype and take it from there.

Thanks for your reply, paulff.

Yes I am able to do these thing regardless of my injury. Thanks for mentioning the government loans, I hadn't though of that.

Cheers,
Alex.

 

[paulff]

Thanks for your reply, paulff.

Yes I am able to do these thing regardless of my injury. Thanks for mentioning the government loans, I hadn't though of that.

Cheers,
Alex.

Visit http://www.startuploans.co.uk/ for more info.
I started my business this way.

 

[Pizzaiolo]

Don't panic. try the information on trevor ballis website.
Get a patent pending going and get a NDA
don't worry about manufacturing. the main thing is to get a working prototype ASAP
if you are totally broke try a business angel to fund the applications etc (I have done this loads of times you can pm me for a chat if you like)
99 times out of a hundred the best thing to licence it out to someone in the field who can then make it or sell it as part of their product range. The cost and trouble of selling it yourself would make more profit if it succeeds but cost tens of thousands to do.
Remember it isn't just the idea that is important. It has to be at the right price, which includes all the distribution costs etc

Hi Moneyman, thanks for your reply.

I've already signed up to the Trevor Bayliss website, i've found some very useful info and links on there. The search service they offer looks useful, but again, it comes down to money, which I don't have.
I've got NDA templates, it's what they actually cover that confuses me. Forgive me if this sounds like an ignorant question, but where an NDA stops someone revealing information you've given them, does it stop them actually going on to develop your idea themselves? I could reveal it to somebody who has more money than me, more experience than me, more contacts than me etc, and they could go and do it themselves...
I'm really interested in getting a working prototype (although there is a range of designs in my idea, they all basically do the same job), that's why i'd beg a manufacturer/engineer to produce one for me.

Licencing it out sounds interesting. I'll do some research as to what this involves.

Cheers,
Alex.

 

[RogerLoyyd]

If you don't have money and want to run your business then you can consult a good reputable financial company which gives you the best suggestions regarding business loan and other services that is most beneficial for you to fulfil your dream to start your own business.

 

[senses]

Another thing, talk to people you trust / have a NDA with.

Although ideas can be everything, others can have a better critique of things, which might change your direction.

 

[Paul_Rosser]

Do you have the skills to design a prototype yourself? or do you need someone to do that for you?

If you can design it then you may be able to use 3d printing to develop a first generation prototype fairly cheaply, but really depends on what the item is.

Also having a great idea is a long way from turning it into a successful business as you will need skills in marketing, sales and lots of other things which is where a lot of people who start their own business fall down.

 

[PaulThompson]

There are also other local sources of start up funding - things like Finance Yorkshire will lend or invest (depending on where you are) they can be useful as they might take less equity than an angel.

 

[MattArnold]

Hi there,

You should talk to me, I run an engineering and manufacturing company and we can help you with design and manufacture for your product. Most of our customers are startups and need a lot of help and patience with finances etc. We have many years of bringing products to market and can point you in the right direction for most things you need.

Let me know if you are interested. I am based in the UK and am more than happy to sign an NDA (if you don't have one, I have one that we can use) and also more than happy to listen and give advice. Look forward to hearing from you.

Thanks Matt.

 

[pat_law]

I would be able to help you with this too. I am an intellectual property professional and I am always happy to help with new inventions that have potential. I would be willing to draft and file a GB patent application for you (depending on the idea) at no initial cost. You would just need to pay the government fees of £150 for filing and search. This should at least get you started and would provisionally protect your idea.

In the UK you can file an application with no fees but this is not advisable as you would not receive a search report from the UK Intellectual Property Office until such fees are paid.

If you are interested PM so we can discuss.

 

[MattArnold]

Yes, you should totally protect your IP if you have something worth patenting. However, to open a discussion with me to get a prototype made or a design complete, or even a discussion about your idea only takes a simple NDA. Patenting etc is to stop others copying your idea once it is in he public domain. Between you and another company to discuss and design the idea etc is not the public domain and is covered with an NDA. Therefore you can start without spending money! Hope that helps.

 

[Excel Expert]

1. Government backed start-up loan.
2. Crowd Funding

Bare in mind; Number 1 is a LOAN, and you need to pay this money back - but, you don't seem to be in a position to do so.

Number 2 will involve giving away a large portion of your business, larger than you'd like - as you're unproven, your idea is unproven and it's a huge risk for the investors. Also, you'd probably have to have prototypes and patents in place prior to starting this, as you're going to need to show people the product, and also - publicise it online.

I dont think this is always the case - just about every product I have seen on KickStarter (for example) is funded by giving the people donating early releases of the product and nothing more. i.e. it works by pre-selling at highly inflated prices. Some also just sell t-shirts and other ways of thanking the donors. Having said that though, it all depends on if the final product is suitable for that particular style of crowd funding.

For me, number 3 in that list would be venture capitalists which would take a large percentage of the business however they should take all the financial risks (i.e. the cost of developing prototypes, getting it in front of companies to sell it to etc)

 

[MattArnold]

Note, most crowd funding platforms will need you to demonstrate the product and how it works. It needs to be a production ready sample really. Once it is on a crowd funding site, it is in the public domain, therefore your IP needs to be protected at that point. There is a lot of work to be done before you get to that point!

 

[businessfunding]

I dont think this is always the case - just about every product I have seen on KickStarter (for example) is funded by giving the people donating early releases of the product and nothing more. i.e. it works by pre-selling at highly inflated prices. Some also just sell t-shirts and other ways of thanking the donors. Having said that though, it all depends on if the final product is suitable for that particular style of crowd funding.

For me, number 3 in that list would be venture capitalists which would take a large percentage of the business however they should take all the financial risks (i.e. the cost of developing prototypes, getting it in front of companies to sell it to etc)

Just to add a little

'CrowdFunding' has become a generic term for a whole rage of finance products funded by Jo Public (the Crowd). Kickstarter and so on are often described as 'social' or 'real' crowdfunding. They tend to work either where there is a strong social element or where the rewards will titillate investors.

Equity finance can include angels, VCs and 'The crowd' - it involves giving away shares and, in varying degrees, control of the business. The pay back is that you can get some invaluable input from investors if your mind is open.

 

[MattArnold]

Again, approaching any funding source can be putting the idea in the public domain and therefore needs protected IP.

Getting something to show them, prototype, proof of concept, or whatever, can be done/should be done before this and would be covered under an NDA between you and your development partner.

 

[businessfunding]

Taking a back step

Before investing, prototyping etc - you must look at the business rather than the idea

How do you know people will buy it?? what are your price points? Marketing budget etc?

Being on JSA you can look at the NEA scheme which will help you to develop the business case (though they will need to be initially convinced that there is a business there)

 

[800heerww]

don't go down the route of invention companies

they are all scams to milk your money off ideas they know won't work

crowdfunding, kickstarter, are the future.
you can carry out your own patent search for 120 pounds to be on the safe side though

 

[amandamorris]

Yes, I agree with business funding that you must try out a crowdfunding platform as without funds you cannot even think about starting a business. Besides making money yourself, your investors at crowdfunding platforms can reap great benefits as you can get high amount of funds from multiple investors online.

 

[EasyWebLtd]

Don't do anything without carrying out the market research.

Why ?

Because if there is demand then you will need much less money, if there is no market at all, no need or people aren't looking for your invention then you will need to educate a lot of people about your invention.

Even best invention means nothing without proper marketing, you need to know how you will sell your product, who's your audience, what would be the cost of customer acquisition.


Start from scratch and create proper business plan and do market research (there is plenty free tools to do it online (google adwords, google trends)).

Of course online market research might not give you proper amount of data. But don't worry, each product will have different audience and different way to sell your product to those people.


If you need more help just PM me (I can provide you free advice).

 

[PaulGoodwin]

Hi

I found a old post after looking around and being quoted £495 for a worldwide patent search off one of these so called invention companies.

I had a idea but like the post I found you on like the guy who started limited funds.

I wondered if anybody could help?

Regards

Paul

 

[ethical PR]

Help with what?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Point one what will you do if someone breaks your NDA, you have no money to sue them and you have to prove they broke the agreement

You have a pattern and in the same boat no money to protect it

So forget the multi million pound idea's and spend your little on other things

If its something manufactured and not electronics etc. then get some free cad software and make a 3 d drawing of the item and then talk to someone with a 3d printer to make a sample using a NDA but bear the above info about its worth (they don't know you cannot defend it)

You then have something concrete to sell

 

[PaulGoodwin]

Hi help with trying to find a cheaper way of patent searching. Worried now aswell after you said about the nda, you re right this invention company now has my idea and they now most people could nt afford to do anything legally if they did anything with it.

 

[Deleted member 226268]

I have an idea for an invention...but I have no money. Where do I start?

No money = Don't !

You don't even know if your idea will actually, physically, work as intended...
and you are worrying about gaining a patent for it !

You need to make up a working prototype first.
This will tell you if it is worth continuing.

Type a descriptive name of your idea in here >
https://patents.google.com/
....if you have a few days spare

... this invention company now has my idea

Oh dear...
Try thinking up something else .....

 

[cathreen7879]

If you have unique idea and you are fearing about that for the copy then you will do first two to three things.
1. Make the full document of that idea with the proper steps
2. Start focusing on some sample and for that you can take fund from the friends, family
3. Many people are choosing crowdfunding for small projects
4. After that you can visit the investors which may finance your project

 

[ChrisRM]

I have not had an idea for an invention and have not marketed/sold a product that is innovative so please take this comment with a pinch of salt. This view is more of a practical point rather than what is best to do.

What is stopping someone from copying your product even if you get a patent? Based on your description of limited funds, say you do get a patent and then produce the product it and then make sales, how is taking legal action against a breach of a patent going to be funded? I suspect a lot of money will be tied up with producing, marketing and distributing the product. Will you have the funds to start proceedings against a reasonably well funded competitor? Let alone the funds to win a successful case.

My understanding is that patents take sometime to be awarded as the Office which administer them have to consider existing products and information in the public domain to establish if it is truly innovative. This, I believe, is not a prompt process.

My understanding is that within weeks of a large brand (say new Nike trainers) releasing a new product there are Chinese imitations available on Ebay, Amazon, etc. The largest brands in the world struggle with protecting patents/designs. If you look at most innovative products on Amazon, there is the brand which created it and then there are cheap imitations.

I'm no expert but I suspect the branding is more important than a patent. Being the original and the company that created the product/idea are good values to market on, rather than price (which your competitors will because they're not the original).

I don't mean to be negative but there is the 'proper', maybe also known as the corporate, way of doing things and then there is the start-up/new company method. Testing a market to see if a product would solve a pain point and then getting a product to the market.

Does it solve a pain in your customers lives that they will be willing to pay to remove/minimise?

I wish you luck.

 

[Matthew Gough]

@Pizzaiolo, Sounds like you have a lot of work ahead of you there! If your idea happens to be of a mechanical nature and 3d printing can help with the prototype then give me a shout, I have a 3d printer here and would be happy to do some printing for you for just the cost of the material and any postage if it helps. Bear in mind you'll need some cad files first and you'll have to remember me when your making millions of it!

 

[David Warrilow]

You may wish to go to this seminar next week at the British Library:

http://www.londonip.co.uk/about-us/events/

We address it to people in your position; i.e. with a product/business idea but with no idea where to go or what to do about it.

Stef covers working out if it is a commercially viable idea and I cover IP infringement and protection. It would also introduce you to the British Library Business & IP Centre, which is a great place to research any business venture.

It would probably answer most of the questions that you seem to be asking and would also raise a lot of questions for you to try to answer.

David

 

[Morgan IAT]

I'd suggest finding a reliable development company to partner with if you need to go down the prototype route - which is always a good idea when you're working with a physical product.

I wouldn't be so crass as to suggest you come to the company I work for, but I would say look around and find a company you can trust - there are many in the UK.

 

[Morgan IAT]

The best thing to do is partner up with a third party who can make it happen for you.
I admit an interest here, but I'd urge you to look around for a company that feels like a good fit.

Investigate them online, find out how other innovators think of working with your chosen partner and do your research.

But do something. The biggest mistake we find people make is doing nothing! You obviously have a good idea, but you'll never know until you try and make it work. The only thing that's happening now is that the window of opportunity is getting smaller.