I have recieved feedback on my street traders licence

[crazyshady]

From the Council about my snack van. I have been invited to a public meeting and been advised to go personally although i can get someone to speak on my behalf. 3 stances were applied for and all 3 have comments against them. On one hand i look at it all and think what's the point? Their all against me lol. Residents against it, local businesses. A few problems which i did not know about such as one place being a bicycle lane, the only thing i can say against that is something has went wrong with the measurements because with that particular stance i was away from it. Other things mentioned are me being near entrances to a supermarket (less than 20m). I had all the guidance notes and nowhere did it state anything like that. The only thing close to it would be being a certain distance from the end of a road so that all traffic can see clearly what is coming round the corner. And the rest is made of local business owners and various people talking about existing businesses in the area, none of which are valid because they DO NOT sell what i am selling in the van. The Indian and Chinese takeaways do not sell what i am selling nor are they even open when i am trading.

The one other thing that is going against me is them saying i don't have a snack van that has passed all the regulations, since i applied for the licence i have got a snack van and am in the process of fixing it up. Obviously now i will need to get a move on and get it done before the meeting. What do you guys think? Do you think i have a chance? Are they allowed to just flat out refuse you an application or have they invited me to a meeting because they need to? In a way it kind of gives me hope i could talk my way round it and convince them to grant me a licence and yet at the same time it has made me feel a bit down reading it all it makes me wonder if i'm fighting a losing battle.

 

[Lord of the Teapot]

You should see the regulations/red tape for selling ice cream from a vehicle!

 

[crazyshady]

I know i've read it. I think i will just need to get stuck into this van and try and get it inspected asap, if it's not right then fix it asap so that when i go on the 18th i can at least say i have a van that has passed the inspections. I'm not that good at talking in public and when they say 'public' i can just imagine it being standing up in front of everyone (including those opposing me) and having to argue against them. I could get someone else to do it for me but i think it's best i do it that way if it goes wrong i can only blame myself.

The people going against me are councillors, residents and shop owners. The police have no objections with anything. The residents are complaining about litter (I will have bins and will personally clean the area around me myself). The shop owners are complaining about losing trade even though none of them are selling what i am selling, they are newsagents, One O One's, harrdaware stores. The only food place is an Indian and Chinese takeaway which aren't even opened when i'm there. I will be gone by half 2 so it's impossible for me to take business away from them.

What do you guys think? Do you think i have a chance at all or do you think i am going here and i am fighting a losing battle. One one application i only have one person objecting and that is the councillor. That is a cracking spot, busy area with businesses nearby, nothing food related. The reason they went against it was because it was within 20 metres from the entrance of the supermarket. I don't know what they can do or don't do but i really hope they would suggest i move the van just far enough so that i am outside their exclusion zones. Anywhere in that area to me is a perfect location.

 

[Lord of the Teapot]

I wish you good luck, Crazy Shady

 

[crazyshady]

Thanks for that, i just hope it works out for me.

 

[paulears]

If you give up - you've not got your heart in it. There are objections. Your job now is to assess what these are likely to be and prepare suitable rebuff to them. So if a trader who will state his really high commercial rates, is worried about losing business, then is this reasonable. Are you going to undercut him on identical products? If you are, then the council officers will probably side with him. If you can show you are no threat, and won't be competing because you will be selling different items, and it's quite possible they could gain some additional business due to the extra footfall you attract, it may work for you. Try to predict thing that will come up. What about rubbish? Will your customers drop rubbish everywhere, attracting vermin etc? Have a plan to deal with it. Think about anything negative that can be turned against you and have a response already prepared. They are giving you the chance to make your case, and if there is a negative, loud councillor - then check him or her out. Do they have a vested interest in you NOT being given the license - maybe some private conflict of interest. If they really are anti, find out why! You MUST go to the meeting, or they'll probably think you are not bothered and decide against you

 

[crazyshady]

I know there is objections, i have every single one here and the names and addresses of those opposing me. Well one shop owner says i could take trade away from them by possibly selling cigrattes. When have you ever been to a snack van that sold cigarettes? I have done what you said and i have an answer for everything, i can counter ever single complaint and the places i have chosen to trade there is NOWHERE within walking distance selling what i am selling. Sure there might be a chinese or indian takeaway but they aren't selling what i am selling and i am gone by half 2, they aren't even open then. Other complaints are things like i am promoting unhealthy eating, i am causing children in the area to eat unhealthily when i should be promoting organic foods and healthy foods.

I can counter everything but it's whether i have the confidence to stand up (or sit) and get my points across professionally and clearly without getting agitated. The talk about it being a 'public' meeting and it being in a hall gives me the vision of those American towns lol, you know the ones where a Mayor has the entire town gathered in the room and everyone voices their opinion. I'd much rather a small room but i guess when they say public there will be a lot of issues being discussed that day.

IMO my biggest problem is i have just under 3 weeks to get this snack van sorted and passed with the Environmental Health, having never dealt with them before and having heard lots of horror stories they really could pull up me up at the slightest thing. It also doesn't help that the letter says they can refuse me a licence anyway by not having a van and not having it passed all the required tests. That certainly was the case in January when i handed the application in but now i do have a van and i have been working hard on fixing it up and i am getting there, i'm doing my best to get as much done as i possibly can. On one hand i feel confident at being able to defend my self against the naysayers and on the other hand i feel totally defeated because at the end of the day i could be the greatest talker in the world and be right on the money with every single one of my points and they can still just refuse me a licence anyway just because my van hasn't YET passed any inspections. I'm so close to making all my hard work pay off yet the whole thing could collapse around me and there's nothing i can do about it.....except try and get it passed in the next few weeks.

I really hope this works out. I don't even know anybody that works in the Environmental Health that could even help me out and look at my van and show me on where to improve or point out things they could use against me. I suppose if i handed it in and it failed they would at least give me the reasons why it failed and then i can work on getting them fixed and then retested again.

 

[paulears]

Do I assume you haven't asked a solictor's opinion? If you are considering a big outlay - the solictor's fees would seem good value. Is your license tied up with the van then? This seems odd. If you get the license, you buy the van. I find it odd that you need the van to get the license - are you sure the two are linked this way? The license might insist on the environmental health being in place to trade - but that's something else?

Go to the meeting and make your case. A solicitor may also be able to advise on if certain features, such as the healthy eating thing - because I'd be surprised if that feature is actually one of the rules - after all, if it was, not many mobile ventures would get off the ground!

 

[crazyshady]

I never thought about asking a solicitor. What i was planning on doing was phoning the Committee and just talking to them on the phone and see if they could offer any advice on my situation and what is most likely to happen to me. I wasn't aware of this until now. I bought a snack van, i cannot operate until i have the Environmental Health check it over and pass it as ok. When you make the application you need to tell them if you have a van or kiosk, if you don't you need a letter saying that you don't have one yet but your looking to get one. The Council gave me a standard letter already done for me as many people don't have vans since obviously if you get told no you can't get a licence the van is useless. Since i put the application in on January i have infact purchased a van and have spent the last month or so fixing it up and fitting new things into it and giving it a good clean.

The letter basically says they can 'without prejudice' refuse the application if there is not a certificate produced to them showing that the vehicle complies with the requirements and regulations of the Food Safety Act. That means the certificate the Environmental Health give you. The way i read it is basically they can give you a Street Trader's licence without you actually having a vehicle to trade from but they can also refuse you it on the grounds you don't have a vehicle or one that has passed the tests. That's why i said i could give the best presentation in the world to them and still not get it. The fact that the council gave me that letter stating i did not have a vehicle at the time tells me that most people applying for these things don't have the vehicles there and then.

 

[IE152]

You must turn up, since if you don't you won't have the opportunity to counter any allegations that are made against you.

Paulear's advice to talk to your solicitor is well worth taking, if you have not already. If you can afford it, it may also be worthwhile asking your solicitor to accompany you to the hearing, and to speak on your behalf.

If this isn't possible, try to anticipate what questions you are likely to be asked, and prepare answers to them in advance. This means that you will be able to read them out at the hearing, rather than have to think up answers on the spot. A good tip is to have the answers in a file, and use dividers to seperate the different q and as by subject, so that you can find them quickly.

Before the event, get someone to give you a really good grilling as well, asking you the very hardest questions, so that you are used to answering them. Get them to think up some difficult questions as well!

Don't get too worried about how many people will turn up at the hearing. I had used to represent firms in a similar type of public hearing, and I hope I am not tempting fate for you when I say that it was unusual to get large numbers of people attending, and it could often only be six or seven people there. If you are nervous, tell the Chairman - it is nothing to be embarrassed about.

Whatever you do, do not get angry or raise your voice - once you do this, you are on very sticky ground. No matter how ridiculous the accusations made against you, remain calm and answer them politely.

One last piece of advice - have you been in touch with your Councillor about this? If not, do so. Not only will he be able to provide more information about the hearing, but if he is part of the same council as the one organising the hearing, he will be able to help ensure that the council officials involved are acting properly, and you should try to get him to offer his support to you at the hearing as well.

Good luck.

Neil

 

[crazyshady]

Well I've taken all the advice on board and am still getting prepared. I think the best thing i can do is just go and do it on my own. I can prepare answers to all the complaints against me but it's just a case of being vocal about them and getting my point across. You made a good point about my own Councillor and I will do that today.

Unfortunately I have not been able to get my van inspected yet so I haven't got the proper certificates for it. That's pretty much my biggest problem I feel because they can refuse the licence on the grounds that I don't have a van or one that hasn't passed the Environmental Health inspections. There is always the argument of why buy a van unless I get a pitch? But again that doesn't really help when the bottom line of it all is I could give the best presentation in the world with all the right answers and be 100% correct on everything i say...which I am and I can still get refused a licence. I guess the fact they assume I don't have a van now, which I didn't in January when the application was made tells me they may be sympathetic otherwise they could have not bothered inviting me along. Then again I don't know if that is done out of kindness or if they know themselves some of the complaints just don't hold up or if they legally NEED to invite me along to say my piece. It's hard to prepare for something like this when you don't know the mindset of the people your speaking to, are you there because their giving you a chance or are you there because legally they need to invite you, do they even care? Am i fighting a battle I've already lost. Who knows.

 

[crazyshady]

My councillor has responded back to me and explained it all and i feel as if i know what to expect tomorrow. There is one thing that could hold me back with one application and that is that i'm within 20 metres to the entrance of a shops carpark. There was problems on the day and i had to mark the location by hand on a map, nothing relating to scale on the map so i guess where i marked X was within 20 metres. I guess i should accept responsibility for that and just try and convince them to let me park a little bit further down the street rather than put in a fresh application because that means i am waiting another 5 months again.

He said the panel will ask questions and be prepared to answer every question put forth to me and also those opposing me may infact turn up tomorrow in person. I'm not really an argumentative person but it just feels like me vs the world lol. Apparantly i have to go up first and present my case and tell them why i want a snack van at the locations and answer some of the key allegations made against me. I don't know what they key ones would be so would i just quickly go through everything and try and reply to them all? And then anyone opposing me has the right to speak up so hopefully no one turns up. I really want this to work out for me but it's not looking good.

 

[Doodle-Noodle]

Best of luck to you for tomorrow, dont panic about what might or might not be said, just be calm, be confident that you know exactly what you hope to get agreed and can get your pont across, and be really nice and pleasant to everyone even of they are complete dorks ...
With regards to the location where you think you've made an error in your measurements, it might be worth your while going back to the location taking photos etc and preparing something which gives you the opportunity to let them all know you are prepared to be flexible and consider the viewpoints of others; point out the plus points to residents of having you there, perhaps you could get a few people who do support you to put something in writing (short notice I know!)
These sort of council type meetings will always point out all the negatives and look for all the reasons to prevent something from happening, dont take it personally and don't put too much on what has been said so far, you have an opportunity to put your case across and even if its refused now you can appeal.
Hope it all goes OK!

 

[IE152]

Good luck for tomorrow.

Don't get disheartened - where you can, make sure that you address the issues that have been made against you. As Doodles says, make sure that you consider the viewpoints of the people opposing you, and make sure when you are planning what to say that you address their concerns.

Let us know how you get on.

Neil

 

[crazyshady]

One thing that is against me is the pictures they took of the locations, they are not the locations i wanted! So i will have to explain that the photos they have are not the exact locations but then they could argue back that those were my measurements and my measurements were wrong.......so i can't really complain if they were. I just dont wanna come back with nothing tomorrow.

 

[crazyshady]

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone again. I'm starting to see myself now that it isn't looking good for tomorrow, i think I will end up embaressing myself a little due to some of the mistakes I made regarding the measuring of distances. But if I have broken their policys on distances then why even ask me to go? If I am fighting a losing battle why not just tell me no rather than ask me to go there and stand up in front of everyone? I don't understand it. I will be very dissapointed if I don't get permission to trade at least one place tomorrow. What do I do if I don't? Back to no job, just sitting day after day doing nothing. I don't want that.

 

[crazyshady]

It didn't go well guys. All i'll say is next time i will need to get someone to do the talking for me. Nearly everyone had people going up and representing them and they were all really good talkers. It was like a court room with a panel of 10 people and then another big table below them. Disappointed in myself.

 

[estwig]

Don't beat yourself up, you've made mistakes, you've learned from those mistakes, you've taken on and tackled something new. Your in great shape to move forward, armed with new knowledge, you just need to decide how best to use that knowledge.

 

[Doodle-Noodle]

Well, at least you now know what to expect. If you decide re-apply (and there's no reason why you shouldn't if you already have the van) you will be in a much better position to state your case. You already know you messed up with your mesurements, so that's an area you can address, you know what the likely objections will be (the same as this time probably) and you can arm yourself either with somebody to fight your corner or just a bit more experience than you had this time around.
Don't be deterred, there are plenty of people who manage to secure the correct permissions for mobile snack vans and I would bet that they all got knocked at the first hurdle initially. Get your van finished, get whatever licence you need to start up and look at different locations; maybe there's even a market for you to hook up with organisers of local fetes/fairs/outdoor concerts etc where you could ply your trade ....... and good luck!

 

[JohnLocke1]

Also remember that the "panel" are no better than you. They are generally unqualified and unelected dweebs doing a paid job who wouldn't have the guts or confidence to start out in their own business. So don't be intimidated in the slightest



Although the first time I had to address such a group I damn near messed myself

 

[crazyshady]

It was like a courtroom and your looking up at them and they all have individual mics. Then you need to go up with the entire place full all eyes on you. I'll need to get someone to talk on my behalf next time cause i can't do it. I need someone that can talk confidently and can answer any questions or objections against me, they need to be able to think on their feet.