Hypothetical Question

Would you

  • Get someone in to do deliver the course?

    Votes: 2 100.0%
  • Do an online course?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Choose an online course if 50% of the cost went to a local charity?

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    2

CommWave

Free Member
Mar 25, 2019
56
6
It’s a legal requirement to deliver a basic fire awareness course to staff, something I am sure we all are aware of.

Question

Would you get someone in to do deliver the course?

Would you do an online course?

Would you choose an online course if 50% of the cost went to a local charity?
 
R

Root 66 Woodshop

Every building is different... how would a visitor know your building?

There's the basics that you can follow, but at the end of the day every buildings requirements are different and are dependent upon their use.

Get a member of staff to take a basic fire awareness course and become your companies fire marshall, get them to come up with your fire procedures and create the fire awareness course to suit your building then... get them to teach accordingly as and when new staff come on, when any updates on your fire routes are done etc etc... oh, by the way... expect to pay them for it too. :D
 
Upvote 0

CVRO

Free Member
Mar 25, 2007
150
34
I have a slightly different view...
I can see the basic training being effectively run online.
As it says on the tin, it's a basic training so it can cover generic stuff that's the same for all buildings...
Do not block emergency exists, do not store anything in emergency corridors, make sure you have means to announce to everybody that there's an emergency, test your system regularly, etc, etc

You could then offer a separate service to create, together with the company's marshall who just undertook the basic training, a bespoken plan for the building.
Maybe, even offer periodic inspections, etc

Of course, the above would be subject to the people involved in creating the bespoken plans and inspections having the relevant qualifications and permits.
 
Upvote 0

james_77

Free Member
  • Aug 10, 2015
    45
    6
    It’s a legal requirement to deliver a basic fire awareness course to staff,

    Is it? I have had no training in several jobs I have been employed in over the last 10 years. Last time I had this type of extravagant training I worked for a huge multi national!

    Isn't the minimum just pointing out the fire exits? (which could not be done online!)?

    Would you get someone in to do deliver the course?

    Yes if the business required it and was covered by the legal requirement. There must be exceptions, eg outside workers. I think the course may vary depending on the nature of the employment. Maybe a restaurant has a different set of training requirements to a factory using flammable materials, or a car garage welding up vehicles. I think most business owners will quickly realize the most cost effective way to provide the training (or not provide it!!).

    Would you do an online course?

    No. Not only would I not trust the online course, I wouldn't trust the staff to sit it properly. Most employees do not take this type of training seriously. What if someone had a question or concern, then what? I must of sat through my fair share of this type of training as am employee, and all I c an remember is how tedious it was.

    Would you choose an online course if 50% of the cost went to a local charity?

    Absolutely not. I would feel over charged by 50% and wonder why the provider wanted to donate MY money to their charity.

    I know a family who do run this type of business. Not only fire training but health and safety training. There are a lot of spin offs and consultation opportunities that can arise also, but the founder was a fireman for over 20 years.

    Not interested in discussing fire laws, just providing feedback for the business idea.
     
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    Reactions: Maxwell83
    Upvote 0

    Maxwell83

    Free Member
  • Aug 4, 2012
    774
    219
    So would I be correct in thinking no one here is a fan of online learning? I must tell YouTube ;)

    I'm a massive fan. But Youtube isn't a tool used to train staff on something you say is a legal requirement.

    Its a video sharing service that is fantastic for personal use - for a motivated person wanting to learn something in their own time it works wonders.

    But I've never crossed off one of my legal/regulatory obligations by simply watching a video on there.

    Speaking of Youtube - If I was inclined to make my staff watch a fire safety training video, and I've already accepted it will be generic in the sense that its not personal to MY building/processes, why pay anyone for the videos when I could get them on Youtube for free? If there is a demand for those videos, someone will create and upload them to YT and monetize them via that platform. YT is the very reason that its so hard to sell non-artistic video content these days.
     
    Upvote 0

    CommWave

    Free Member
    Mar 25, 2019
    56
    6
    I have a slightly different view...
    I can see the basic training being effectively run online.
    As it says on the tin, it's a basic training so it can cover generic stuff that's the same for all buildings...
    Do not block emergency exists, do not store anything in emergency corridors, make sure you have means to announce to everybody that there's an emergency, test your system regularly, etc, etc

    You could then offer a separate service to create, together with the company's marshall who just undertook the basic training, a bespoken plan for the building.
    Maybe, even offer periodic inspections, etc

    Of course, the above would be subject to the people involved in creating the bespoken plans and inspections having the relevant qualifications and permits.

    First apologies for not replying sooner, never received the email alert. This goes for the other comments I am replying to at the same time below.

    Correct it would be a certified basic fire awareness course which is a legal requirement if you employ more than 5 people. We would also provide the fire risk assessment paperwork for the company.
     
    Upvote 0

    CommWave

    Free Member
    Mar 25, 2019
    56
    6
    It’s a legal requirement to deliver a basic fire awareness course to staff,

    Is it? I have had no training in several jobs I have been employed in over the last 10 years. Last time I had this type of extravagant training I worked for a huge multi national!

    Isn't the minimum just pointing out the fire exits? (which could not be done online!)?

    Would you get someone in to do deliver the course?

    Yes if the business required it and was covered by the legal requirement. There must be exceptions, eg outside workers. I think the course may vary depending on the nature of the employment. Maybe a restaurant has a different set of training requirements to a factory using flammable materials, or a car garage welding up vehicles. I think most business owners will quickly realize the most cost effective way to provide the training (or not provide it!!).

    Would you do an online course?

    No. Not only would I not trust the online course, I wouldn't trust the staff to sit it properly. Most employees do not take this type of training seriously. What if someone had a question or concern, then what? I must of sat through my fair share of this type of training as am employee, and all I c an remember is how tedious it was.

    Would you choose an online course if 50% of the cost went to a local charity?

    Absolutely not. I would feel over charged by 50% and wonder why the provider wanted to donate MY money to their charity.

    I know a family who do run this type of business. Not only fire training but health and safety training. There are a lot of spin offs and consultation opportunities that can arise also, but the founder was a fireman for over 20 years.

    Not interested in discussing fire laws, just providing feedback for the business idea.

    Is it a legal requirement - Search for Fire safety risk assessment: 5-step checklist at the government web site, I can't add the direct link.
    "Train You need to make sure your staff know what to do in case of fire, and if necessary, are trained for their roles."

    Online course: You would not trust an online course? Fair enough however online is now a well established and accepted form of learning and development. The Open University has been doing it for over 50 years.

    Clearly donations to charity are not your thing. You could check out the course prices online and you would see the price would be similar. You could choose the charity the money went to and as the developer of the idea and a volunteer at a local charity I think this is an excellent way of helping charities support what they do rather than expecting handouts for everything. My personal; opinion of course but thanks for your comments.
     
    Upvote 0

    CommWave

    Free Member
    Mar 25, 2019
    56
    6
    I'm a massive fan. But Youtube isn't a tool used to train staff on something you say is a legal requirement.

    Its a video sharing service that is fantastic for personal use - for a motivated person wanting to learn something in their own time it works wonders.

    But I've never crossed off one of my legal/regulatory obligations by simply watching a video on there.

    Speaking of Youtube - If I was inclined to make my staff watch a fire safety training video, and I've already accepted it will be generic in the sense that its not personal to MY building/processes, why pay anyone for the videos when I could get them on Youtube for free? If there is a demand for those videos, someone will create and upload them to YT and monetize them via that platform. YT is the very reason that its so hard to sell non-artistic video content these days.

    The course would not be on YouTube it would be hosted on a learning management system with learning points that, if answered correctly, would result in a certificate. This would be a "Basic" fire awareness course and fulfil the training criteria.

    It would be really difficult to monitize a course by putting the content on YouTube plus it would not be certificated, hence the LMS which is proof of attendance.
     
    Upvote 0

    Mr D

    Free Member
    Feb 12, 2017
    28,915
    3,627
    Stirling
    Is it a legal requirement - Search for Fire safety risk assessment: 5-step checklist at the government web site, I can't add the direct link.
    "Train You need to make sure your staff know what to do in case of fire, and if necessary, are trained for their roles."

    Online course: You would not trust an online course? Fair enough however online is now a well established and accepted form of learning and development. The Open University has been doing it for over 50 years.

    Clearly donations to charity are not your thing. You could check out the course prices online and you would see the price would be similar. You could choose the charity the money went to and as the developer of the idea and a volunteer at a local charity I think this is an excellent way of helping charities support what they do rather than expecting handouts for everything. My personal; opinion of course but thanks for your comments.

    Think you will find the OU has been doing distance courses, not online courses.
     
    Upvote 0

    CommWave

    Free Member
    Mar 25, 2019
    56
    6
    It’s a legal requirement to deliver a basic fire awareness course to staff,

    Is it? I have had no training in several jobs I have been employed in over the last 10 years. Last time I had this type of extravagant training I worked for a huge multi national!

    Isn't the minimum just pointing out the fire exits? (which could not be done online!)?

    Would you get someone in to do deliver the course?

    Yes if the business required it and was covered by the legal requirement. There must be exceptions, eg outside workers. I think the course may vary depending on the nature of the employment. Maybe a restaurant has a different set of training requirements to a factory using flammable materials, or a car garage welding up vehicles. I think most business owners will quickly realize the most cost effective way to provide the training (or not provide it!!).

    Would you do an online course?

    No. Not only would I not trust the online course, I wouldn't trust the staff to sit it properly. Most employees do not take this type of training seriously. What if someone had a question or concern, then what? I must of sat through my fair share of this type of training as am employee, and all I c an remember is how tedious it was.

    Would you choose an online course if 50% of the cost went to a local charity?

    Absolutely not. I would feel over charged by 50% and wonder why the provider wanted to donate MY money to their charity.

    I know a family who do run this type of business. Not only fire training but health and safety training. There are a lot of spin offs and consultation opportunities that can arise also, but the founder was a fireman for over 20 years.

    Not interested in discussing fire laws, just providing feedback for the business idea.
    Think you will find the OU has been doing distance courses, not online courses.

    Apologies I was thinking of MOOC's (Massive Open Online Courses) most universities do now
     
    Upvote 0

    paulears

    Free Member
    Jan 7, 2015
    5,657
    1,666
    Suffolk - UK
    There is no requirement to do this, however it is of course, very sensible. Like things like PAT testing - people assume it's a requirement. The employer would, of course be responsible if there was a fire and people did not know what to do.

    Why we have to turn to on-line training for every little thing is beyond me!

    The best training for your staff comes from you. YOU know what they need to know. I had experience of a trainer delivering a fire safety course to staff after a near miss! At the end, I (as a contractor present) quietly told him they'd all got horribly confused. He assumed they had plans, and the system in place would work. There was no plan, and the systems relied on individuals who worked part-time and would not always be there. He was horrified and realised the manager who arranged the course had no idea, so assumed he would do everything = he thought he was there to show them fire extinguishers, explain procedures and how to do evacuations etc. The plan, was simply that if the fire alarm went off, everyone would leave the building quickly and collect across the rd. Nobody had thought that somebody with the signing in sheets would be key to finding out if everyone was there. The alarm has a silent checking mode to give the chance to cancel it before it goes ogg publicly to save false alarms. The manager didn't realise this was why it made a funny noise for 3 minutes. The fire brigade, faced with repeated and numerous false alarms set off my idiots in a bar, downgraded priority unless they received a phone call, rather than the audio alarm. Fire hoses had been disconnected by the fire service two years previously and nobody told the staff they didn't work. When pointed out, half the people would have tried to use them. Frequent small real fires often get caused by cigarettes thrown away outside on wooden decking type surfaces, yet the staff often try to put them out with CO2 extinguishers, outside, in the wind.

    Somebody needs to do real risk assessments and then design PROPER training specific to the risks identified. The law goes into action after the incident. Training helps prevent it actually happening. Watching an internet presentation provided a tick in the box - yes, they have been trained, but if the training is crap - their lives are still on the management's shoulders, and in most incidents, it really falls onto the shoulders of one or two. Remember Hillsbrough? If there is a risk and they need fire training, then the person who carries the can should really do it. If that person cannot do it, then why are they responsible for it? If you delegate, and that person messes it up, you will still be standing in front of the judge.

    You don't HAVE to do it, there is no law stating "thou must do fire training", but you have that duty of care - you need to keep them safe.

    I've had to evacuate over 1400 people from a theatre with my own people because the venue staff had been trained to run like hell when the alarm goes off - leaving the audience to fend for themselves. The venue did not understand that the audience were actually their responsibility - their training only covered the staff. The realisation afterwards was sobering for them. They genuinely did not know. I spent many years teaching modules in managing safety, and finding out in real life these things are just not known about scares me. A generic internet video is NOT training, it's just base level knowledge. The training then follows.
     
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