How Much Is SEO?
- Thread starter Ali-v-8
- Start date
I love SEO threads, it's funny how they always try to exaggarate how complex SEO is or just try and confuse things when it comes to SEO.
The truth is SEO is the most simple thing in the world, most of these SEO guys sit around on forums all day doing nothing.
It's simple, optimise your pages for targetted keywords, and then build links. Anything else is menial.
An SEO 'consultant' will make out like it's the most specific science in the world so they can charge you £75 an hour for sitting at a computer doing a basic job.
Expect this to change within the next 5 years as SEO will become less of a standalone skillest and more of an add-on, i.e. web developers will start incorporating it.
The truth is SEO is the most simple thing in the world, most of these SEO guys sit around on forums all day doing nothing.
It's simple, optimise your pages for targetted keywords, and then build links. Anything else is menial.
An SEO 'consultant' will make out like it's the most specific science in the world so they can charge you £75 an hour for sitting at a computer doing a basic job.
Expect this to change within the next 5 years as SEO will become less of a standalone skillest and more of an add-on, i.e. web developers will start incorporating it.
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yep it is the easiest thing in the world to do. Just optimise your pages for keywords and get links. . Just like bricklaying really. get bricks, get cement slap them together and you have a house.
No-one has said it is rocket science, but it isn't what you say either. you are right about SEo changing, it has moved away from the old form of web positioning, and onto web marketing.
Google yahoo and MS have applied for rafts of patents that relate to search, and there is no doubt that these will hit the algorithms in time.
Simple things like latent Semantic Indexing, meaning that in fact you don't HAVE TO 'target your pages for keywords', you have to target your pages and site to themes and topics using semantically related keywords (natural language), will cut out the ;made for google' type highly focused pages, and reward more comprehensive sites/pages.
I agree that it isn't as hard as some say, but most SEO's I know will all tell you that it i simple, and people can do 80-90% of it themselves, the fact is we can do 80-905 of MOST things in life ourselves, it just takes longer.
You can defend yourself in a court of law, because after all it is simple. stand up, tell the truth, and as long as you are innocent you get found innocent!
The truth about SEo is somewhere between 'optimise a page and get links' and 'it is an exact science, it is full of dark arts where the algorithm wooty tootie needs tweaking on a regular basis using Hilltop algorithm on one hand, and the H.I.T.S. on another. Combine this with the impending introduction and /or increasing reliance on things like Latent Semantic Indexing, and Block level Link Analysis, and you can see that my aunties cat is called Cedric!'
No-one has said it is rocket science, but it isn't what you say either. you are right about SEo changing, it has moved away from the old form of web positioning, and onto web marketing.
Google yahoo and MS have applied for rafts of patents that relate to search, and there is no doubt that these will hit the algorithms in time.
Simple things like latent Semantic Indexing, meaning that in fact you don't HAVE TO 'target your pages for keywords', you have to target your pages and site to themes and topics using semantically related keywords (natural language), will cut out the ;made for google' type highly focused pages, and reward more comprehensive sites/pages.
I agree that it isn't as hard as some say, but most SEO's I know will all tell you that it i simple, and people can do 80-90% of it themselves, the fact is we can do 80-905 of MOST things in life ourselves, it just takes longer.
You can defend yourself in a court of law, because after all it is simple. stand up, tell the truth, and as long as you are innocent you get found innocent!
The truth about SEo is somewhere between 'optimise a page and get links' and 'it is an exact science, it is full of dark arts where the algorithm wooty tootie needs tweaking on a regular basis using Hilltop algorithm on one hand, and the H.I.T.S. on another. Combine this with the impending introduction and /or increasing reliance on things like Latent Semantic Indexing, and Block level Link Analysis, and you can see that my aunties cat is called Cedric!'
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- Original Poster
- #87
I dont mind being slated by someone who knows the business, or has a website on page one of Google.
So please show me your website and show me YOUR success.
SEO is a practice (more you do the more you learn).
What works for one website wont have the same results as others.
The change of business (everyone using the net) will effect SEO in the future.
Then basic SEO will be futile, necessary but futile.
By the way only a bad SEO would try to pull he wool over a clients eyes. I prefer my client to use our firm with EYES WIDE OPEN.
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L
Latitude-Express
How much should SEO cost is a question which can never have an answer. The price of a service is relative to the work involved and the deliverables of the service in question. £500 is expensive if somebody is doing little work or providing services which will gprovide little value (search engine submissions, meta data optimisation), but if they are providing a full managed consultative service, then it is probably a good deal.
More important than questioning the cost is questioning the value and output associated with the cost. Make sure whoever is the provider is outlining exactly what you get for your money and the results you expect. If you are the provider make sure you can demonstrate the outputs to your clients and prospects.
There are many people out there offering cut price SEO services. A lot are preying on those people with a lack of knowledge around SEO and arent actually delivering anything of tangible benefit for their fees. Shop around and make sure you are working with a company who know what they are talking about and can meet you own business needs.
Final point: If someone tells you they can guarantee you SEO results run! Dont walk, run! As fast as you can in the opposite direction! Nobody can guarantee you SEO results and nobody has a "special" relationship with Google!
More important than questioning the cost is questioning the value and output associated with the cost. Make sure whoever is the provider is outlining exactly what you get for your money and the results you expect. If you are the provider make sure you can demonstrate the outputs to your clients and prospects.
There are many people out there offering cut price SEO services. A lot are preying on those people with a lack of knowledge around SEO and arent actually delivering anything of tangible benefit for their fees. Shop around and make sure you are working with a company who know what they are talking about and can meet you own business needs.
Final point: If someone tells you they can guarantee you SEO results run! Dont walk, run! As fast as you can in the opposite direction! Nobody can guarantee you SEO results and nobody has a "special" relationship with Google!
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- Original Poster
- #91
yeah I suppose, I just get frustrated when i come across victims of bad companies.
The worst one are those who contact client who have great results and plant seeds of doubt in there heads.
Many clients just want results and cheapest always looks the best.
I cant remember the amount of times I have negotiated a deal andsome one has undercut me by £500-£1000. Its even more annoying when that person comes back to you 6 month later asking for help.
Problem is usually they have created more work for us to repair.
This is why I originally started this thread so that people were aware its not Just a case of buying a can of coke from a shop.
seo cost (like OWG said) is like the piece of string question?
It depends on what is need to be done with the string.
Seo's that offer a fixed price cannot be doing it correctly.
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I am going to have to disagree with your quote of
"Seo's that offer a fixed price cannot be doing it correctly."
I offer a fixed price, a very low one on our wesbite for SEO.
BUT
on review of an enquiry it is determined if and what the client actually needs and a quote is worked out from there.
My reasoning for this is my target is small businesses, mainly those who already have a website but, usually, in some way have been stitched up by another company in that they have built them a website then just left it to wilt away into oblivion we fondly call Google. Which is the main reason I find myself catapulted into the Internet Marketing industry.
Based on my experience and knowledge I know my limitations when it comes to SEO and KNOW that I still have a lot to learn, I have turned work away previously because of this - why would I want to damage someones online reputation and business just to make a few quid? It's a pointless exercise. This trend cannot continue and I have considered partnering with an SEO company to pass on referrals to who can offer a more expensive service with a higher ROI until such time I am comforatble with my own abilities.
For this reason I don't think your statement is a "fair" one, particularly when companies are starting out (and yes there are some of us with ethics and morals out there!) who use a set price and a certain structure to establish ourselves. For the amount of hours I actually put in I probably should charge 3 times as much - and before anyone does a search etc - yes I know there are issues with some of the websites which are being worked on!!
"Seo's that offer a fixed price cannot be doing it correctly."
I offer a fixed price, a very low one on our wesbite for SEO.
BUT
on review of an enquiry it is determined if and what the client actually needs and a quote is worked out from there.
My reasoning for this is my target is small businesses, mainly those who already have a website but, usually, in some way have been stitched up by another company in that they have built them a website then just left it to wilt away into oblivion we fondly call Google. Which is the main reason I find myself catapulted into the Internet Marketing industry.
Based on my experience and knowledge I know my limitations when it comes to SEO and KNOW that I still have a lot to learn, I have turned work away previously because of this - why would I want to damage someones online reputation and business just to make a few quid? It's a pointless exercise. This trend cannot continue and I have considered partnering with an SEO company to pass on referrals to who can offer a more expensive service with a higher ROI until such time I am comforatble with my own abilities.
For this reason I don't think your statement is a "fair" one, particularly when companies are starting out (and yes there are some of us with ethics and morals out there!) who use a set price and a certain structure to establish ourselves. For the amount of hours I actually put in I probably should charge 3 times as much - and before anyone does a search etc - yes I know there are issues with some of the websites which are being worked on!!
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- Original Poster
- #95
I am going to have to disagree with your quote of
"Seo's that offer a fixed price cannot be doing it correctly."
I offer a fixed price, a very low one on our wesbite for SEO.
BUT
on review of an enquiry it is determined if and what the client actually needs and a quote is worked out from there.
My reasoning for this is my target is small businesses, mainly those who already have a website but, usually, in some way have been stitched up by another company in that they have built them a website then just left it to wilt away into oblivion we fondly call Google. Which is the main reason I find myself catapulted into the Internet Marketing industry.
Based on my experience and knowledge I know my limitations when it comes to SEO and KNOW that I still have a lot to learn, I have turned work away previously because of this - why would I want to damage someones online reputation and business just to make a few quid? It's a pointless exercise. This trend cannot continue and I have considered partnering with an SEO company to pass on referrals to who can offer a more expensive service with a higher ROI until such time I am comforatble with my own abilities.
For this reason I don't think your statement is a "fair" one, particularly when companies are starting out (and yes there are some of us with ethics and morals out there!) who use a set price and a certain structure to establish ourselves. For the amount of hours I actually put in I probably should charge 3 times as much - and before anyone does a search etc - yes I know there are issues with some of the websites which are being worked on!!
You haven't..
You clearly state its FROM £39.00 a month. (£500 is still cheap)
This is not what I mean.
The annoying ones say seo £99.
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A
Ann@Anicca
Nobody has actually answered the question?
Below is my experience of what many agencies and freelancers charge; and also what our agency charges to carry out an SEO project for an existing site.
What's involved in an SEO project - working with an existing website
1) Diagnosis and understanding the current status of the website and if there are any specific problems. This should include a technical review of the site and understanding of the competitive environment.
2) Keyphrase research and optimisation plan (often using PPC data to determine the phrases that result in enquiries and sales, rather than just focussing on phrases that drive traffic)
3) Creation of on-page optimised content (including new text, tags, links etc)
4) Ongoing development of links and improving the credibility of your site
5) Management, reporting and ongoing work
This process and background information on SEO can be found among the articles in our online marketing library.
Typical services and charges
1) & 2) auditing and research
This is the area where you can get charged anything from a few pounds to £5k upwards for the initial audit and advice. The pounds tend to increase rapidly if you are a brand name or if you use a large agency; even though you may be getting the same work as a smaller B2B business down the road!
We typically combine the first part of the project into one - technical audit, current performance compared with competitors, keyphrase research, gap analysis and optimisation plan.
For most companies this is ~3 days work, for which we will charge £1500-£2000 work.
3) Content creation
Most SEO copywriters can do the research and create 3-5 SEO pages in a day, so depending on their day rate you will pay anything from £5 (Indian rates) to £300+ per page. However, most agencies will charge between £200-£400 per page. Whereas, freelancers will charge £75 - £500 per day, so you could be paying £30-£100 per page - although it is likely you will need to pay more than £125/day to get anyone any good!
For the record our page rates starts at £150/page (and for most projects there is 10-20 pages), over this the page rate drops according to volume.
4) Link building
Most companies can do the link building themselves; however many companies offer this at a day rate, or per link, or number of directory listings. You need to watch out for companies offering to do this in bulk and also submission or link building using software - as these can do you more harm than good!
You should be budgeting for 1-4 days per month to do link building activities properly, however this will incorporate your social marketing and other forms of online networking!
5) Ongoing management and reporting
This is where you often get a lot of hidden and extra charges; so make sure you know what you are paying for. You need to have an idea of your agency or freelancers day rate and how much time will be allocated per month. Ask yourself lots of questions and get the proposed activities included in a written contract, with measurable outputs and targets.
What are you getting for your monthly fee?
Apologises in advance!
I am sure other readers/suppliers will have strong opinions about the information above, but I hope it will give readers a guide to the range of charges in SEO land! I expect I have missed out some details and others will turn round and say that they can do everything for a low fixed fee.
However, the amount you pay really depends on the volume of work you have done and the amount that person charges per day. If they are in demand and good at what they do they will be commanding day rates in excess of £500/day!
regards
Ann Stanley
Below is my experience of what many agencies and freelancers charge; and also what our agency charges to carry out an SEO project for an existing site.
What's involved in an SEO project - working with an existing website
1) Diagnosis and understanding the current status of the website and if there are any specific problems. This should include a technical review of the site and understanding of the competitive environment.
2) Keyphrase research and optimisation plan (often using PPC data to determine the phrases that result in enquiries and sales, rather than just focussing on phrases that drive traffic)
3) Creation of on-page optimised content (including new text, tags, links etc)
4) Ongoing development of links and improving the credibility of your site
5) Management, reporting and ongoing work
This process and background information on SEO can be found among the articles in our online marketing library.
Typical services and charges
1) & 2) auditing and research
This is the area where you can get charged anything from a few pounds to £5k upwards for the initial audit and advice. The pounds tend to increase rapidly if you are a brand name or if you use a large agency; even though you may be getting the same work as a smaller B2B business down the road!
We typically combine the first part of the project into one - technical audit, current performance compared with competitors, keyphrase research, gap analysis and optimisation plan.
For most companies this is ~3 days work, for which we will charge £1500-£2000 work.
3) Content creation
Most SEO copywriters can do the research and create 3-5 SEO pages in a day, so depending on their day rate you will pay anything from £5 (Indian rates) to £300+ per page. However, most agencies will charge between £200-£400 per page. Whereas, freelancers will charge £75 - £500 per day, so you could be paying £30-£100 per page - although it is likely you will need to pay more than £125/day to get anyone any good!
For the record our page rates starts at £150/page (and for most projects there is 10-20 pages), over this the page rate drops according to volume.
4) Link building
Most companies can do the link building themselves; however many companies offer this at a day rate, or per link, or number of directory listings. You need to watch out for companies offering to do this in bulk and also submission or link building using software - as these can do you more harm than good!
You should be budgeting for 1-4 days per month to do link building activities properly, however this will incorporate your social marketing and other forms of online networking!
5) Ongoing management and reporting
This is where you often get a lot of hidden and extra charges; so make sure you know what you are paying for. You need to have an idea of your agency or freelancers day rate and how much time will be allocated per month. Ask yourself lots of questions and get the proposed activities included in a written contract, with measurable outputs and targets.
What are you getting for your monthly fee?
- Reporting should not take much more than half a day (depending on the complexity of your business).
- Will you get extra pages written every month?
- Is link building included?
- How many meetings can you expect?
- How much support and training will you receive?
Apologises in advance!
I am sure other readers/suppliers will have strong opinions about the information above, but I hope it will give readers a guide to the range of charges in SEO land! I expect I have missed out some details and others will turn round and say that they can do everything for a low fixed fee.
However, the amount you pay really depends on the volume of work you have done and the amount that person charges per day. If they are in demand and good at what they do they will be commanding day rates in excess of £500/day!
regards
Ann Stanley
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- Original Poster
- #98
so if I asked you to get me to page one of Google for the word loans, you would charge £182,500 (@£500 a day)
Any just so you know "we did answer the question"
In case you missed it the answer was provided by the right honourable oldwelshguy "A PIECE OF STRING"
I think everyone agrees there is no fixed price. Too many factors need to be taken into consideration. There is also levels of performance that differs.
Some people get you to page one.
Others get you conventions.
Some do both.
I feel like a character out of "the hitchhickers guide to seo"
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This is a great thread.
Ann you didn't say how much you charge for linkbuilding...
It looks like from what all you guys are saying is that £1000pm is about the lowest you will go to for a single project. I am guessing that the 1st month is the really heavy month, changing everything and making sure its all targeted at the right phrases so the following months are just tweaking and link building right?
Ann you didn't say how much you charge for linkbuilding...
It looks like from what all you guys are saying is that £1000pm is about the lowest you will go to for a single project. I am guessing that the 1st month is the really heavy month, changing everything and making sure its all targeted at the right phrases so the following months are just tweaking and link building right?
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A
Ann@Anicca
I would be honest and say that I would not be able to achieve that for you!
However just to let you know most of our projects are £1500-£4000, not £182,500!
cheers Ann
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Hi Ann was just wondering why an SEO company would use so many instances of the word "property" in a title.?:|
Worldwide Property : UK Property Investment, Buy Off Plan, Buy-to-Let Properties, Overseas Property, Caribbean Property, Dubai Property
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Ann@Anicca
I agree - this property site (www.overseas-homes-direct.com) is now 3 years old, no longer active and is only linked on our portfolio page as a showcase for the web technology; although it still has some useful information for international property buyers (if there are any out there) - with over 300 pages of optimised content about buying property in Spain, France, Dubai, US and Bulgaria.
Unfortunately, we could not justify doing an update, I am afraid.
cheers Ann
PS thanks for having a look anyway!
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Ann@Anicca
Generally optimising a page, includes creating unique content that has a value to the user as well as being optimised, it cant be just regurgitated text full of keyphrases. Generally there will be 250-500 words optimised for 1 or 2 keyphrases.
As well as the main body copy it would also have optimised tags (generally titles, description and alt tags), headers, url and internal links.
If you relate it to a copy writer, a journalist or PR who charge on a per word rate you can get another perspective on the likely costs, due to the time taken to research and write the copy.
cheers Ann
As well as the main body copy it would also have optimised tags (generally titles, description and alt tags), headers, url and internal links.
If you relate it to a copy writer, a journalist or PR who charge on a per word rate you can get another perspective on the likely costs, due to the time taken to research and write the copy.
cheers Ann
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A
Ann@Anicca
Yes, this is about right, although where possible we try and spread projects out or combine a SEO project with PPC work, so that the whole strategy is fully integrated.
The other thing that most people don't realise is that there are loads of grants around to help companies do this sort of work, particularly in the Midlands where we are based.
We often help companies get up to 50% funding for projects. This can be simply a couple of days strategic advise to the directors to put an online marketing plan together (funded through a mentor/training grant), or 50% towards an integrated web build and online marketing programme (worth up to 50% of a £10k project).
Contact me directly if you want any more information on this?
regards Ann
The other thing that most people don't realise is that there are loads of grants around to help companies do this sort of work, particularly in the Midlands where we are based.
We often help companies get up to 50% funding for projects. This can be simply a couple of days strategic advise to the directors to put an online marketing plan together (funded through a mentor/training grant), or 50% towards an integrated web build and online marketing programme (worth up to 50% of a £10k project).
Contact me directly if you want any more information on this?
regards Ann
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Very interesting Ann.
I would be very interested to see some of the results your company has achieved.Could not find any on your website
Earl
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Put the bloody bone down earl
Sod off Taffy ain't ya got no Leeks to pick or sheep to shear.?
Earl
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M
matt.chatterley
It depends totally on what needs doing - as with any bespoke project.
We tend to work with the customer (this applies to a lot of bespoke jobs, not just SEO/et al) to build up a works list which is weighted by recommendation/requirement, and split down into chunks - they can then (as appropriate) select the work they want to do, with a reasonable idea of the likely benefits.
We generally do this sort of thing on a T&M basis - it's simplest for us to account for (and simple helps keep costs down).
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- Original Poster
- #110
Sod off Taffy ain't ya got no Leeks to pick or sheep to shear.?
Earl
Now Now boys, No need to fight over a girl.
By the way Sirearl.
Experimented with 3 websites bye removin the site map
one has gone up alot
one is moved up just a page
one has yet to be cached
I think you are onto something.
I can only assume it because Google has to read the content instead of what you tell him.
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- Original Poster
- #113
I have just had the worst ever conversation.
After explaining the effectiveness of seo for a clients website and explaining that he would save thousands and thousands a year by just adding a map listing for free he said and i quote " that is too expensive can you not do it cheaper".
I replied "but its free".
He responds " I know all about SEO, my mate works for google and your too expensive. Do it for a grand and i'll take it"
stupid stupid stupid.
I took the grand. LOL :redface:
After explaining the effectiveness of seo for a clients website and explaining that he would save thousands and thousands a year by just adding a map listing for free he said and i quote " that is too expensive can you not do it cheaper".
I replied "but its free".
He responds " I know all about SEO, my mate works for google and your too expensive. Do it for a grand and i'll take it"
stupid stupid stupid.
I took the grand. LOL :redface:
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Well that made my day TYVM. (I think the Client must have thought you were saying "it's THREE!")
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That's my good deed of the day done.
Was it a 'free' deed? best not tell her or she won't feel 2 grand
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Was it a 'free' deed? best not tell her or she won't feel 2 grand
Oh dear - don't give up the day job!!!
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- Original Poster
- #120
Oh dear - don't give up the day job!!!
Yes, dont give up your day job.
Who else will we have insane and witty comments on the threads:|
Besides mr earl.
By the way only took £200 for the listing.
Guy is happy as he is now page one top of the list.
Guy has just saved £800 a month (according to him)
think i should have took the grand
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