How much could you expect to earn from an average cafe?

[3Mason]

assume the rates are £3,000

the rent £13,500

a footfall of say 1000 people per day,

a school nearby with 350 kids,
which obviously leaves 3 months without them and their parents cash!!

assuming the initial outlay was covered, what would be a reasonable figure for revenue and why?

 

[kulture]

How long is a piece of string?

It is impossible to answer your question.

For a start why would any parent go to a cafe. They drop kids off and go. Why would kids go to a cafe, they tend to go to sweet shops. The 1000 people footfall, who are they and where are they going? 1,000 people footfall in a tourist spot could mean 50% to 100% will use the cafe. Whilst a 1,000 people footfall outside a school could mean a 0% cafe usage.

Go and do proper research. Try asking some of these 1,000 people if they are looking for a cafe, or if they would use one if it existed there.

 

[SimplyWebsites]

What kind of school is it? I agree the school kids probably aren't that interested in a cafe. If your thinking about older kids at Lunch Breaks then I don't think kids would want to spend there lunch sitting in a cafe, however if you did take out stuff for cheap prices then you may be on to something.

Generally school kids go for the cheapest possible so that they can spend the rest of there parents money on sweets and fizzy drinks.

As a sit down cafe I would actually expect more kids in the holidays than school times (Starbucks)

 

[3Mason]

How long is a piece of string?

It is impossible to answer your question.

For a start why would any parent go to a cafe. They drop kids off and go. Why would kids go to a cafe, they tend to go to sweet shops. The 1000 people footfall, who are they and where are they going? 1,000 people footfall in a tourist spot could mean 50% to 100% will use the cafe. Whilst a 1,000 people footfall outside a school could mean a 0% cafe usage.

Go and do proper research. Try asking some of these 1,000 people if they are looking for a cafe, or if they would use one if it existed there.

i know your trying to be helpful but jeez ive done research:

A) I didnt say parents will use the cafe, some might, what i meant is its their money in the kids pockets.

B) 1,000 footfall average past the door of the cafe location, as in there could be more than that, there is a builders yard and the people there would be shopping in the local shops, Iceland, Co-op etc...

C) Kids ONLY go to sweet shops? what a weird view of the world, kids eat at lunch too you know, the local greggs makes money from them after all

D) I was looking for a rough estimate based on a bare minimum assumption of usage, i didnt ask or provide info. There is a pub, a bookmakers, 5 shops, a bakers, 3 bookmakers, a local chool, local businesses, building sites and residential buildings.

I am not naive and did the research, what i didnt want was a random answer that anyone could have written, i wanted cafe owners to give estimation and reasons.

thanks anyway :redface:

 

[3Mason]

What kind of school is it? I agree the school kids probably aren't that interested in a cafe. If your thinking about older kids at Lunch Breaks then I don't think kids would want to spend there lunch sitting in a cafe, however if you did take out stuff for cheap prices then you may be on to something.

Generally school kids go for the cheapest possible so that they can spend the rest of there parents money on sweets and fizzy drinks.

As a sit down cafe I would actually expect more kids in the holidays than school times.

its a high school sir,

we have an upper and lower level, so we want to market as both a nice sit-in cafe without the bustle of schoolkids, problem is they are good for business, so we want an area for walk in, buy, walk out

 

[SimplyWebsites]

i know your trying to be helpful but jeez ive done research:

A) I didnt say parents will use the cafe, some might, what i meant is its their money in the kids pockets.

B) 1,000 footfall average past the door of the cafe location, as in there could be more than that, there is a builders yard and the people there would be shopping in the local shops, Iceland, Co-op etc...

C) Kids ONLY go to sweet shops? what a weird view of the world, kids eat at lunch too you know, the local greggs makes money from them after all

D) I was looking for a rough estimate based on a bare minimum assumption of usage, i didnt ask or provide info. There is a pub, a bookmakers, 5 shops, a bakers, 3 bookmakers, a local chool, local businesses, building sites and residential buildings.

I am not naive and did the research, what i didnt want was a random answer that anyone could have written, i wanted cafe owners to give estimation and reasons.

thanks anyway :redface:

When I was at college Greggs and Subway were very busy too. But kids were very keen to take food out. However it was quite a walk back so if you are pretty close maybe they would be more keen to sit down.

 

[3Mason]

When I was at college Greggs and Subway were very busy too. But kids were very keen to take food out. However it was quite a walk back so if you are pretty close maybe they would be more keen to sit down.

the good thing is we are closer to the school but by about 20 yards as the greggs is there not so far after us haha

that would help i suppose

 

[kulture]

How can the answer be anything BUT random without the additional information which you have partly supplied? How can anyone guess more accurately than you, who has seen the location, has seen the type of people going passed, has seen whether they are in a hurry or not, and knows the area.

How can we know what the typical price of coffee is in the area? How can we know what target of customer you are aiming at. As a simple example, in my small town one cafe charges over £3 for a small cup of coffee, another charges £1.50 for a small cup of coffee. Both coffees are very nice. One cafe is empty, the other is full all the time. Guess which one? Yes the £3 a cup. It makes a fortune. The £1.50 a cup is struggling. There is much more to saying how much money a cafe will make than you have covered.

Look, any guess you make has got to be better than one we could make here. Even then, with cafes sometimes they work, and get very busy, and sometimes they just don't work. There is no simple answer.

 

[SimplyWebsites]

the good thing is we are closer to the school but by about 20 yards as the greggs is there not so far after us haha

that would help i suppose

Well you cant eat Greggs everyday!

 

[3Mason]

How can the answer be anything BUT random without the additional information which you have partly supplied? How can anyone guess more accurately than you, who has seen the location, has seen the type of people going passed, has seen whether they are in a hurry or not, and knows the area.

How can we know what the typical price of coffee is in the area? How can we know what target of customer you are aiming at. As a simple example, in my small town one cafe charges over £3 for a small cup of coffee, another charges £1.50 for a small cup of coffee. Both coffees are very nice. One cafe is empty, the other is full all the time. Guess which one? Yes the £3 a cup. It makes a fortune. The £1.50 a cup is struggling. There is much more to saying how much money a cafe will make than you have covered.

I know what you mean, i was just looking for a generic rough estimate for the normal above average cafe.

coffees in the area range from £1.50-£2.00 but they arent anything special, we have completed our menus etc just finishing the build work of the property

 

[3Mason]

Well you cant eat Greggs everyday!

very good point indeed sir!!!

 

[SimplyWebsites]

very good point indeed sir!!!

And its very true. Those chicken bakes start to get nasty when you eat too many! (Personal Experience)

Saying that, right now i'de love one

 

[Preemo]

It depends a lot on the area you're in. If there are things like Greggs, Subway, local chip shop etc near the school - it could take away business. So yes, it's impossible to judge how much you could expect.

I personally used to go to a burger van, just purely because most schools these days don't sell that type of food, so you could be onto something there, especially if you made things like "lunchtime deals", so they can get a burger, a few chips and a small drink for something small like £3. It's about word of mouth to, once one school kid likes your cafe, he'll tell the others and they will want to see the craze, that's when the business could start rolling in.

All the best

 

[3Mason]

And its very true. Those chicken bakes start to get nasty when you eat too many! (Personal Experience)

steak bakes are worse, what that does to the bathroom!!

 

[3Mason]

It depends a lot on the area you're in. If there are things like Greggs, Subway, local chip shop etc near the school - it could take away business. So yes, it's impossible to judge how much you could expect.

I personally used to go to a burger van, just purely because most schools these days don't sell that type of food, so you could be onto something there, especially if you made things like "lunchtime deals", so they can get a burger, a few chips and a small drink for something small like £3. It's about word of mouth to, once one school kid likes your cafe, he'll tell the others and they will want to see the craze, that's when the business could start rolling in.

All the best

thanks buddy

 

[kulture]

With cafes it is all about the undefinable. Somehow it has to be in the right location, whatever that is. It has to hit the "spot" and be the place people want to be in, or be seen in. If you can hit that, then price will not be an issue. For kids especially, it is all about peer pressure. If they think it's cool to go to your cafe, then price would never be an issue. If they think your cafe is for old people, then it does not matter how cheap it is, they will never come in.
I'm sorry I am not positive. I wish you luck. But please, rely on your own judgement based on your own research. No one here can actualy give you better figures.

 

[SimplyWebsites]

It depends a lot on the area you're in. If there are things like Greggs, Subway, local chip shop etc near the school - it could take away business. So yes, it's impossible to judge how much you could expect.

I personally used to go to a burger van, just purely because most schools these days don't sell that type of food, so you could be onto something there, especially if you made things like "lunchtime deals", so they can get a burger, a few chips and a small drink for something small like £3. It's about word of mouth to, once one school kid likes your cafe, he'll tell the others and they will want to see the craze, that's when the business could start rolling in.

All the best

I was thinking similar! Everyone likes deals. Also as I said previously, kids tend to save there money so that they can save there money to buy things like crisps and drinks. Why not have a meal deal which includes these.

Also there's nothing better than a nice breakfast cob! Sausage, Bacon, Egg, Mushrooms etc!

 

[3Mason]

With cafes it is all about the undefinable. Somehow it has to be in the right location, whatever that is. It has to hit the "spot" and be the place people want to be in, or be seen in. If you can hit that, then price will not be an issue. For kids especially, it is all about peer pressure. If they think it's cool to go to your cafe, then price would never be an issue. If they think your cafe is for old people, then it does not matter how cheap it is, they will never come in.
I'm sorry I am not positive. I wish you luck. But please, rely on your own judgement based on your own research. No one here can actualy give you better figures.

I know im just so torn about this, its an investment in the local area, and will provide 2 jobs for people in the local area, main motivation is to give something good back at the same time

thanks K, please don't think i was being anal earlier,

 

[kulture]

My neighbour is a skateboard shop. It is very popular with the local kids. It is NOT cheap. The amount of money the kids spend on skateboards and the accessories is unbelievable. Kids have money. Perhaps more disposable income than many of us. Depending on the area. So for high school kids, I think it is a dangerous oversimplification to say its about them saving for sweets and crisps.

 

[SimplyWebsites]

My neighbour is a skateboard shop. It is very popular with the local kids. It is NOT cheap. The amount of money the kids spend on skateboards and the accessories is unbelievable. Kids have money. Perhaps more disposable income than many of us. Depending on the area. So for high school kids, I think it is a dangerous oversimplification to say its about them saving for sweets and crisps.

I think kids will spend the minimum on what they need so they have more more to spend on what they want.

So I guess I was kind of wrong because there is definitely a reason to want a nice breakfast cob or something! Although there are kids that only care about sugar, probably not the majority though.

 

[deniser]

From the cafes around me I can tell you this:

1. not many are VAT registered so that gives you some idea of the turnover. With 3/4 people working there at any given time I imagine they do not make much or any money
2. the schoolboys will walk far and queue for what they perceive to be the most food for the money they have. They are interested in meal deals. They will not stop at your cafe if Greggs is further down the road and cheaper
3. older schoolgirls are interested in more upmarket food than boys and want paninis, salads, posh coffees, cake
4. younger schoolchildren have to eat at school so only pass by for sweets and crisps
5. the most money is to be made from workmen. They eat a lot and spend a lot. They want hot food - bacon, eggs, sausages, pasties etc. as well as baguettes and hot drinks. One business near me was successful while there were lots of large developments going on and when they were completed, went bust
6. the most successful cafe is a vintage style one with mismatched floral china and posh cakes and upmarket bistro type food which attracts the ladies who lunch and have coffee/afternoon tea
7. anything remotely off the beaten track - unless it has parking and is on a major road route - is a failure
8. if you are in a residential area with a lot of elderly people they will come regularly and fill your tables but not spend much money
9. you want to make sure you do not attract schoolchildren to sit down - they will come in large groups and order one hot chocolate between them and scare off the other customers

So you have to decide which market to aim for and then differentiate yourself. You can't have a cafe which appeals to a cross section of people.

I would say a footfall of 1000 including school kids is far too small unless you make yourself a destination for the ladies who lunch.

 

[3Mason]

From the cafes around me I can tell you this:

1. not many are VAT registered so that gives you some idea of the turnover. With 3/4 people working there at any given time I imagine they do not make much or any money
2. the schoolboys will walk far and queue for what they perceive to be the most food for the money they have. They are interested in meal deals. They will not stop at your cafe if Greggs is further down the road and cheaper
3. older schoolgirls are interested in more upmarket food than boys and want paninis, salads, posh coffees, cake
4. younger schoolchildren have to eat at school so only pass by for sweets and crisps
5. the most money is to be made from workmen. They eat a lot and spend a lot. They want hot food - bacon, eggs, sausages, pasties etc. as well as baguettes and hot drinks. One business near me was successful while there were lots of large developments going on and when they were completed, went bust
6. the most successful cafe is a vintage style one with mismatched floral china and posh cakes and upmarket bistro type food which attracts the ladies who lunch and have coffee/afternoon tea
7. anything remotely off the beaten track - unless it has parking and is on a major road route - is a failure
8. if you are in a residential area with a lot of elderly people they will come regularly and fill your tables but not spend much money
9. you want to make sure you do not attract schoolchildren to sit down - they will come in large groups and order one hot chocolate between them and scare off the other customers

So you have to decide which market to aim for and then differentiate yourself. You can't have a cafe which appeals to a cross section of people.

I would say a footfall of 1000 including school kids is far too small unless you make yourself a destination for the ladies who lunch.

now thats the kind of reply that makes the utmost sense and is informative,

 

[MozzComm]

assume the rates are £3,000

the rent £13,500

a footfall of say 1000 people per day,

a school nearby with 350 kids,
which obviously leaves 3 months without them and their parents cash!!

assuming the initial outlay was covered, what would be a reasonable figure for revenue and why?

i think the footfall figure is a little optimistic - is this customers or potential customers walking passed?

100o customers per day is in the league of Costa / Starbucks territory

 

[3Mason]

i think the footfall figure is a little optimistic - is this customers or potential customers walking passed?

100o customers per day is in the league of Costa / Starbucks territory

we did the research over the course of 6 days, so yeah the average was 1000 footfall, that doesnt mean to say they are all potential customers of course

 

[MozzComm]

we did the research over the course of 6 days, so yeah the average was 1000 footfall, that doesnt mean to say they are all potential customers of course

hmm well i do have managerial experience with a branded coffee shop chain.

so in relation to my other post...scratch my back and i'll scratch yours?

 

[3Mason]

hmm well i do have managerial experience with a branded coffee shop chain.

so in relation to my other post...scratch my back and i'll scratch yours?

i have replied by pm sir

3

 

[Cobby]

Experience owning and running cafés in various places says:

6. the most successful cafe is a vintage style one with mismatched floral china and posh cakes and upmarket bistro type food which attracts the ladies who lunch and have coffee/afternoon tea

Nope.

7. anything remotely off the beaten track - unless it has parking and is on a major road route - is a failure

Nope.

8. if you are in a residential area with a lot of elderly people they will come regularly and fill your tables but not spend much money

Nope.

9. you want to make sure you do not attract schoolchildren to sit down - they will come in large groups and order one hot chocolate between them and scare off the other customers

Annoy rather than scare but yep, you're right.

What kulture said pretty much hits the spot. Making it a success relies on so many variables that trying to describe/advise about them is mostly meaningless. Common sense (i.e. the school kids thing) rules the day so only the OP can really get close to guessing figures.

Whichever way you want to run your place OP, don't chop and change frequently; stick at an idea for a while to make sure your reputation and word about you spreads - new ideas can often take a while to bear fruit.

 

[3Mason]

Experience owning and running cafés in various places says:


Nope.


Nope.


Nope.


Annoy rather than scare but yep, you're right.

What kulture said pretty much hits the spot. Making it a success relies on so many variables that trying to describe/advise about them is mostly meaningless. Common sense (i.e. the school kids thing) rules the day so only the OP can really get close to guessing figures.

Whichever way you want to run your place OP, don't chop and change frequently; stick at an idea for a while to make sure your reputation and word about you spreads - new ideas can often take a while to bear fruit.

agreed, thanks

 

[Banned]

If this helps, you can expect to get between 2% and 4% of the passing footfall (WH Smith for example consider 4% the uppermost percentage in a top spot position).

So the gives you say thirty customers a day.

Now you work out how much money you will lose.

 

[MozzComm]

If this helps, you can expect to get between 2% and 4% of the passing footfall (WH Smith for example consider 4% the uppermost percentage in a top spot position).

So the gives you say thirty customers a day.

Now you work out how much money you will lose.

any need to be so negative.

there are ways and means of getting your point across.

however, should always end on a positve.

 

[Banned]

any need to be so negative.

there are ways and means of getting your point across.

however, should always end on a positve.

Realistic I thought.

30 customers a day does not a cafe business make. As as the OP said, what about the 13 weeks when the schools are on holiday.

OK end on a positive:- Perhaps those 30 customers will be spending £50 each, you will be quids in. Doesn't really help does it!

 

[MozzComm]

Realistic I thought.

30 customers a day does not a cafe business make. As as the OP said, what about the 13 weeks when the schools are on holiday.

OK end of a positive:- Perhaps those 30 customers will be spending £50 each, you will be quids in.

i would suspect id depends on the area - could the footfall increase during school holidays? is it where parents and children will go shopping whilst off??

possibilities....

 

[Banned]

i would suspect id depends on the area - could the footfall increase during school holidays? is it where parents and children will go shopping whilst off??

possibilities....

Maybe, be he/she didn't give the impression it would be busier in the holidays with:-

which obviously leaves 3 months without them and their parents cash!!

 

[MozzComm]

Maybe, be he/she didn't give the impression it would be busier in the holidays with:-

quite possibly but maybe he hadnt thought that there could be positives to the schools being closed (im a glass half full kinda guy)

OP...can you advise?

 

[3Mason]

Maybe, be he/she didn't give the impression it would be busier in the holidays with:-

for the summer months there are still the shoppers, the workmen, etc we have an upstairs area too which we cant think of a use for, what could its use be? im out of ideas, a cafe downstairs with something upstairs, this sounds crazy right?

any ideas

 

[Banned]

quite possibly but maybe he hadnt thought that there could be positives to the schools being closed (im a glass half full kinda guy)

OP...can you advise?

I'll have to disagree. When looking at starting a business it's always better to be looking at half empty glasses.

But each to his own

 

[MozzComm]

I'll have to disagree. When looking at starting a business it's always better to be looking at half empty glasses.

But each to his own

but if you start with no optimism or positivity...it would just be a downward sprial.

 

[3Mason]

but if you start with no optimism or positivity...it would just be a downward sprial.

we have a lot of money we can put into it, that is not an issue, but the big thing is the realistic revenue we are going to pull from it

its more something for my fiance anyway, shes always wanted one and has the right determinations

 

[MozzComm]

I would be interested to visit where this is happening and discuss with you?

theres alot to know to be able to help - but happy to.

 

[Banned]

but if you start with no optimism or positivity...it would just be a downward sprial.

I've found the exact opposite. Open a business with low expectations then if it goes well you get a fantastic boost.

Open with unrealistic/high expectations and if/when things don't go as well as you hoped then the downward spiral of despair, depression and suicidal tendencies kick in.

I have seen a couple of people open businesses with high expectations only to give up after a year. If they had been realistic then things might have been different.

Also don't confuse low expectation/realism with lack of commitment and enthusiasm.

There endeth the sermon!!!