how best to find a web designer to employ?

[the3545]

hi all,

I have a number of website ideas which after speaking to a large number of freelance designers, i'm told should be designed in house. They say due to the high amount of custom work and constant change/growth required for the site that it would only make sense to employ a web designer. (cost/time)

Therefore i'm now on the lookout for either a web designer to employ or partner, with on a 50:50 business split. Since i have only limited web design knowledge but plenty of marketing and sales skills - a good coder is all i need.

The problem comes in where to find the right person for the job! I'm happy to pay to advertise on job sites but which one? They all price around the same and boast being the biggest, busiest and best but where do all the IT crowd go? Secondly, with only limited design knowledge how do i know which programming language or skills to request from my applicants?

Thanks in advance

 

[iksol]

There isn't one specific job site that the "IT Crowd" go to, probably about 4 or 5 main ones. jobserve, jobsite, monster, cwjobs, etc.

The skills you need may well be dictated by your website ideas and requirements, but in the main, the typical skill profile is:
PHP, MySQL, HTML, CSS, Javascript, XML.

But you could potentially replace PHP/MySQL with ASP.net/SQL Server, or Java/Oracle/SQLServer; depends on your requirements.

You're welcome to PM me with further info.

 

[DesignerNick]

You should really post about what you need making as you could have a PHP Developer do the same as an ASP developer but in PHP rather than ASP.

Make sure you look at some of their past work and if you can speak to some of their past customers

 

[the3545]

thanks for the quick replies!

i was thinking of monster.co.uk so its good to hear that's on your list.

would there be any point putting it on at the job centre? i thought probably not?

thanks again

 

[Astaroth]

Monster is more generic where as JobServe is more IT focused but with both you will be over run with applications.

You will need to consider what you want most out of a designer or developer, particularly if approaching the IT crowd who will see a much greater differential between the two than the outside world. You can certainly get jack of all trades but they tend to be masters of none.

Job Centres TEND to be more appropriate for lower level employs but there are always exceptions. What salary point are you aiming at?

 

[the3545]

that was going to be my next question...

SALARY!

as a start-up I'm not able to offer the $£$£$ to compete, at first, but would be happy to offer shares in the business to counter this. Since i'm told the site will take 3-4months to develop and then some time to get revenue going - am very aware that i need to keep the outgoings LOW. However, what's the average salary and what should i offer at first?

i'd much rather find a person who is happy to become partners and we both work for free until the business makes revenue but since i dont know any coders this is VERY unlikely.

so in short - what is the average salary and what would you suggest (if anyone has done this before) is a good way to get these people despite not having the high salary to offer them at first?

thanks again

 

[iksol]

Well, put yourself in a developer's position. Would you commit yourself to working on a venture, in return only for a share of a business you know nothing about? Probably not.

I understand you're unwilling to share your idea with the whole world, but you will have to divulge it to tempt somebody on board.

 

[Astaroth]

If your looking more at the design side your going to be looking at 25-30 (see http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/web designer.do)

If you want more of the technical side then the figure will go up

As has been said, a coder is generally interested in paying their mortgage and food bills rather than seeing their jobs as being an investment. Of cause there are exceptions but your going to be find them much more by word of mouth than job boards and then your more likely going to be offering an IT Directorship type role.

 

[Mikesp]

You can always try this freelance site: elance. com - (I can't post url's yet so you get the idea)
You can post your job and what you want doing and various designers can offer you there own quotes etc.

Hope this helps.

 

[the3545]

thanks again for all the replies

i fully take onboard that everyone has BILLS to pay and i wouldn't suggest otherwise - i also agree that 50% shares in nothing is NOTHING, the coder could work for months, only to see the site fail and be out of pocket.

however, i would assume that most coders work freelance and i wouldn't expect 100% of their time if i was only offering a low salary and shares at first - paid work would come first...but this aside, if the average salary is 25-30k then i fail to see why so many people have suggested i go down this route over a web design company....

i would oblivious discuss the idea with my final few applicants but you are correct that i don't want to let the cat out the bag at this stage. i do have a number of site ideas which i've sat on for years and slowly watched them all be done by other people - hence why i've decided now to start getting the sites going myself while their still some on the list and don't exist!

i have posted on a few freelance bidding sites but since i cant give all the details many come back saying the site needs a full time coder not freelance, due to the complexity and time required plus huge costs. i've also been told that most company's when looking to purchase a site don't like sites which haven't been done inhouse.

since the above post it a lot of reading here is a summary:

--i have tried freelance bidding sites - was told i should employ coder
--i have tried web design company's - was told i should employ coder

i'm very appreciative of all the advice your giving and i would happily use a freelance coder, web design company or employ a coder. i'm open to any suggestions and would just like to find the best option for someone with limited start-up funds.

thanks again

 

[Astaroth]

Not sure why a web design company would ever recommend that you hire your own people.

Yes, the cost per head will be lower (though remember to add in all the other costs of an employee that goes above and beyond the basic salary) but it also comes with a lot of issues. If the site is that complex then your unlikely to get away with a designer and probably need a developer in which case your still left a hole in terms of design. Likewise, if it truly is complex your probably going to want a dedicated DBA instead of a programmer trying their hand at SQL.

What happens if your 1 employee is off sick for a month?

An outside organisation gives you the advantage of being able to call on the skill set that you need when you need them without having to pay them all year round for the few hours a month you may truly need them.

Many agencies also offer the ability of having a retainer in place, so you prebuy X amount of hours a month at a discounted rate so if you know your going to need monthly work done you have the resources secured.

 

[the3545]

i initially did want to go down the web design route and found a number of companies with excellent sites and many of the skills my site will require.

however, as i've said they felt that for a startup my best option would be to get my own staff. Whilst also noting that many people online suggest that if your exit is via a sale (eg Google) they prefer the site to be self coded and the onwership of the code/site can be questionable?

thoughts?

 

[Astaroth]

Ownership of the code can be clearly stated in the contract. Some agencies will put a loading on their price if you want full source code and rights to it, especially if there are reusable components in it but ultimately almost everyone has their price. If its a price you can afford is of cause another question.

 

[digitalneos]

Check your pm when you get a moment i have sent some information that maybe of some use to you.

Kind Regards,

Sam

 

[the3545]

that's good to know about the code ownership!

i'd like to ask anyone interested in the job on here to PM me. That's freelance, web design companies or individuals looking for work!

thanks for all the advice so far

 

[cody44]

Like anything else in life. Word of mouth is probably the best way forward. Check out the web Designers web site and see if they have a good page ranking on Google. If thery do not have a page ranking of 3+ then how are they going to get your website noticed on the internet!!


Mark

 

[oldeagleeye]

I would approach this the other way around if I were you. There are a huge number of designers out there that would offer you a partnership if you can prove that you can pull the sales in. Then discuss your project with them when you have a track record.

The bottom line is thay they already have proven design skills. You however need to prove your marketing ones.

Rob

 

[wiseoleweazel]

I would approach this the other way around if I were you. There are a huge number of designers out there that would offer you a partnership if you can prove that you can pull the sales in. Then discuss your project with them when you have a track record.

The bottom line is thay they already have proven design skills. You however need to prove your marketing ones.

Rob

There are one to many "i have an idea that is going to make lots of money, but i have no capital or can pay little or nothing to begin with" and a fair few developers/designers have been stung by that little trick, not to say you are one of those people but hairs do raise when this is brought up.

The developer can usually prove his abilities and is putting alot of trust in the partner/client in these situations, what you need to provide are the basics of your idea, enough to outline what skillset they need to present to you, or put another way at some point you will need to tell them, they are in essence designing your product and it's marketing, if they don't know in depth what it is, your idea is doomed from day one.

I would highly consider making sure your IP is secure, get someone to sign a NDA and move from there, at least then you have some legal recourse in case things go south.

 

[Rexxom]

I am happy to see this post here. It is useful for me.

 

[matt.chatterley]

Have to say I agree with wiseoleweazel (amongst others) - have you tested your idea out on anyone (not related to you, not a friend, etc) to see what sort of reaction you get?

We are approached very regularly by people who are going to be generous enough to let us build the next big thing for free - and promise a share of the gravy in the future. Suffice to say that like most development agencies, we very seldom launch into any of these deals.

If we do, it's normally after careful examination of the proposed concept and even then we don't generally work for free - we'll thrash out some sort of discount-for-equity (or profit share) arrangement.

In terms of permanent staff vs a freelancer or agency, cost, etc - I agree with others that you probably don't want to be hiring someone permanent. If you don't need them full-time after a few months, you're stuck with a significant wage bill - although it will work out substantially cheaper per hour - even an experienced/senior developer will potentially cost you half the going rate which some of the larger agencies charge.

You probably need to explore the idea more - get a specification drafted (ideally pay a business analyst to do this for you) - get a couple of quotes, etc. It might even work out that it's better to just try and borrow the money you need!

 

[robincard]

Hmmm it is a tough situation, unfortunately you will be hard pressed to find a talented web developer to commit to a small company, its hard enough to find good web developers full-stop, I do contracting web-development for one of the big mobile phone manufacturers because top-class web developers are so thin on the ground, if they can't find people, god knows how other companies can! The company I last left to peruse the self-employed route still have an open vacancy.

Your best bet, is to find someone with a raw talent which needs developing, but you have to be in it for the long-game then and they're not going to get everything spot on first time.

If you do get CVs through, find someone on here who will go through them for you, I'd be happy to help out if need be.

 

[TomStuttDesign]

A good job site where designers go is designjobsboard.com I look here all the time and you get some big companies post of here sometimes so it must be good.

 

[akirk]

Ownership of the code can be clearly stated in the contract. Some agencies will put a loading on their price if you want full source code and rights to it, especially if there are reusable components in it but ultimately almost everyone has their price. If its a price you can afford is of cause another question.

This is a very tricky area... yes, you can contract for ownership of code but expect to pay a fortune for it!

The problem is that you will need to have a very cleverly worded contract (i.e. expensive lawyers) or else the contract will in effect prevent the developers from coding anything else...

so much web code is standard code which is unique only in how it is assembled...

how does the contract allow for code libraries such as jQuery / Zend / etc.? they will not be the developers to let you have...

a contract should be more about the concepts / logic / processes than the actual code...

so doable, but... be cautious here... if a dev. company feels that you are removing their ability to sell other disconnected websites in the future you will have to pay them an amount to compensate for lost future earning potential...

Alasdair

 

[Vito Sullivan]

My advice would be to invest now in order to get the job done in the right way. Believe me, thus you can always require the necessary job from your contractor and get the result needed. Otherwise there is always a possibility that your partner will be distracted by other projects which he is being paid for...IMO

 

[cody44]

Like anything else in life. Word of mouth is probably the best way forward. Check out the web Designers web site and see if they have a good page ranking on Google. If thery do not have a page ranking of 3+ then how are they going to get your website noticed on the internet!!


Mark

10 years on and still doing the websites

 

[John Martin]

As others have said, due to the complex nature of the site, it seems that a developer would be better than a designer. However, there are a number of things you need to be aware of.

Many developers are good at writing code and looking after the technical aspects, but often they aren't that great at design. They also don't usually have any marketing experience, so their websites aren't necessarily that good as a sales engine.

If all you need is a technically functional website and it doesn't really need to turn visitors into customers, then that won't matter. But if you need your website to convert people, then you'll need a developer with more of a skill set. It can be extremely hard to find people who can do both, so usually it's a trade off.

I'm a designer, not a developer, but what I will say is that almost all designers, and probably a lot of developers too, are very poor at meeting Google's performance expectations and their own websites are usually not SEO friendly. So if this is something that's important you, you definitely want to test their websites out first.

You can do this using Google's page speed insight's tool... https://pagespeed.web.dev/

 

[Newchodge]

thanks again for all the replies

i fully take onboard that everyone has BILLS to pay and i wouldn't suggest otherwise - i also agree that 50% shares in nothing is NOTHING, the coder could work for months, only to see the site fail and be out of pocket.

however, i would assume that most coders work freelance and i wouldn't expect 100% of their time if i was only offering a low salary and shares at first - paid work would come first...but this aside, if the average salary is 25-30k then i fail to see why so many people have suggested i go down this route over a web design company....

i would oblivious discuss the idea with my final few applicants but you are correct that i don't want to let the cat out the bag at this stage. i do have a number of site ideas which i've sat on for years and slowly watched them all be done by other people - hence why i've decided now to start getting the sites going myself while their still some on the list and don't exist!

i have posted on a few freelance bidding sites but since i cant give all the details many come back saying the site needs a full time coder not freelance, due to the complexity and time required plus huge costs. i've also been told that most company's when looking to purchase a site don't like sites which haven't been done inhouse.

since the above post it a lot of reading here is a summary:

--i have tried freelance bidding sites - was told i should employ coder
--i have tried web design company's - was told i should employ coder

i'm very appreciative of all the advice your giving and i would happily use a freelance coder, web design company or employ a coder. i'm open to any suggestions and would just like to find the best option for someone with limited start-up funds.

thanks again

25K is below minimum wage for a full time employee!

 

[Newchodge]

Closing this thread. if the OP hasn't got this sorted in the last 15 years, it's never going to happen!