Homeless

[AWA Training]

I think one thing that has concerned and saddened me in recent months / years is the growing number of homeless people i am seeing on the streets.

Now i know some will argue that some of these are posers with homes. But many are who they are.
From next month it is my intention to start sources items for them, brushes (hair), toothpaste, tooth brushes, hygiene wipes, tin opener. That sort of thing to help them along.

This will be the how my local business contributes to assisting in the local area.

 

[Mr D]

You may already have done this but worth checking with local homeless organisations in the area as to whether they are already doing this. And supporting them or finding out what else is needed that you can provide.

 

[ethical PR]

That's good to hear. I would contact local homeless charities. They will let you know what sort of items they need. You could also contact charities that provide hot meals for homeless people and items they need and see if you could help with these. St Mungo's and Salvation Army are nationally charities with local offices in the big cities but there are also lots of smaller local ones that need support.

 

[Jessica A.]

Hi! It's great to hear about people trying to help people in need in their own little way. As the saying goes, "a little goes a long way". Homeless people in third world countries also need help. See if you can check international organizations who assists people living in these areas. Some have never even tried living in a house. They were born in the streets, grew up and lived in the streets. They had to endure harsh weather conditions and are exposed to all sorts of bacteria and sicknesses all the time. It would be good to finally ease their discomfort and teach them how to be working members of the society.

 

[AWA Training]

The difference between what i am doing, and what charities will do for those in the third world is, i physically hand the aid directly to the person i meet in the street. I know then, its got there.

 

[ethical PR]

I hope you are doing through one of the established voluntary/charities that work with street homeless @AWA Training ?

And if you donate through a reputable charity such as Railway Children https://www.railwaychildren.org.uk/ you know your money is going to help vulnerable children sleeping in railway stations.

 

[Scott@KarmaContent]

From next month it is my intention to start sources items for them, brushes (hair), toothpaste, tooth brushes, hygiene wipes, tin opener. That sort of thing to help them along.

Do you know that these are the sort of things that they actually want?

Sometimes what we think people need and what they actually need are two different things.

 

[Mr D]

The difference between what i am doing, and what charities will do for those in the third world is, i physically hand the aid directly to the person i meet in the street. I know then, its got there.

Yes, some charities and voluntary groups siphon off part of what is given for other purposes. Including admin - OK, bills have to be paid. But sometimes way too much.

Its always worth researching a charity or voluntary group before parting with money, time or goods.

Saw on the news the other day Birmingham are looking to try what has been achieved in Finland with homeless. Rather than just nights in a shelter, moving to a housing model so a place all day and night. Didn't catch it all but may be of interest to some.
And if it resolves sufficient issues. Property, or rather lack of it, is not always the sole issue.

 

[ethical PR]

Charities as you know @MrD don't 'syphon' off money. Why make it sound like they are doing something immoral/illegal?

They have operating costs such as staff who provide services, IT equipment offices, insurance etc. All UK charities clearly show how much they spend on operating costs, so anyone donating to them can check it out before donating.

 

[Mr D]

Charities as you know @MrD don't 'syphon' off money. Why make it sound like they are doing something immoral/illegal?

They have operating costs such as staff who provide services, IT equipment offices, insurance etc. All UK charities clearly show how much they spend on operating costs, so anyone donating to them can check it out before donating.

How are they paying utilities? Staff wages? Advertising? Paper? Accounting?
I wasn't in any way suggesting what they were doing was immoral or illegal. That would be your interpretation of what I posted, though cannot see how you would get there.
I did refer to bills have to be paid!

There won't be many charities that are able to pass on 100% of the money given to the intended recipients directly. There have been some groups that try, subsidising the organisation themselves.
And there is no one standard that charities stick to regarding how much is siphoned off from going directly to the clients / users / beneficiaries.

 

[ethical PR]

You are being disengenouos.

Of course you were suggesting that what charities are doing by covering their operating costs is immoral or illegal - if you didn't mean that you wouldn't have used the term 'siphon off'.

As you know to 'siphon off' means:

"to dishonestly take money from an organisation and use it for apurpose for which it was not intended"

Do you really think the public are so stupid that they don't know the cause they donate to have to pay their staff, their utilities, their advertising costs, their taxes, their office and field costs.

 

[Mr D]

You are being disengenouos.

Of course you were suggesting that what charities are doing by covering their operating costs is immoral or illegal - if you didn't mean that you wouldn't have used the term 'siphon off'.

As you know to 'siphon off' means:

"to dishonestly take money from an organisation and use it for apurpose for which it was not intended"

Do you really think the public are so stupid that they don't know the cause they donate to have to pay their staff, their utilities, their advertising costs, their taxes, their office and field costs.

Think what you want. Its irrelevant.

 

[ethical PR]

As someone who runs a charity, that supports homeless women, I find your comments highly offensive.

In our case we do this on entirely voluntary basis, but of course have some operating costs.

To say we are 'siphoning off' i.e. dishonestly taking money from the organisation and using it for a purpose for which it isn't intended, because we have to pay for accountants to do our books, or pay for legal expenses is offensive.

It's a shame, you don't have the decency to admit that you used the wrong terminology if you didn't mean that charities act immorally/illegally when they pay for operating costs out of their budget.

 

[Toby Willows]

Charities as you know @MrD don't 'syphon' off money. Why make it sound like they are doing something immoral/illegal?

They have operating costs such as staff who provide services, IT equipment offices, insurance etc. All UK charities clearly show how much they spend on operating costs, so anyone donating to them can check it out before donating.

Did you know if you sign up via a chugger for a fiver by direct debit every month, it’s at least three years until the charity will see any money. That can’t be right, and how many people will cancel before three years anyway.

So the op is better off asking what a homeless person needs and putting his fiver directly where it’s needed rather than go through certain “official” routes.

 

[Mr D]

As someone who runs a charity, that supports homeless women, I find your comments highly offensive.

In our case we do this on entirely voluntary basis, but of course have some operating costs.

To say we are 'siphoning off' i.e. dishonestly taking money from the organisation and using it for a purpose for which it isn't intended, because we have to pay for accountants to do our books, or pay for legal expenses is offensive.

It's a shame, you don't have the decency to admit that you used the wrong terminology if you didn't mean that charities act immorally/illegally when they pay for operating costs out of their budget.

And as someone who has worked with homeless charities for over 30 years I have a little experience of them. Between working with them, working at them and volunteering for them I've probably looked and spoken to several hundred homeless groups and charities over the years. From those subsidising the organisations so 100% of the donated money goes on the clients to those who run up over 90% of donations to cover running before the clients get any help...


If you think I used the wrong terminology you will of course be instructing me on what the correct terminology is as applied to an organisation taking money so that it doesn't benefit the very people that it was given for.
I await your English lesson.

 

[Mr D]

Did you know if you sign up via a chugger for a fiver by direct debit every month, it’s at least three years until the charity will see any money. That can’t be right, and how many people will cancel before three years anyway.

So the op is better off asking what a homeless person needs and putting his fiver directly where it’s needed rather than go through certain “official” routes.

It can vary, the average a few years back used to be 2. Best sign up rate I've come across is from TV adverts where can be as low as 12 months.
You start at £2 a month, just £2 a month and someone calls you about increasing it. And later someone calls you about increasing it. And so on.
Its a harvesting method for donor details rather than a major source of revenue for the charity. However properly managed it can turn into a considerable income source for the charity.

 

[ethical PR]

As someone who says they have worked in and for the charity sector for thirty years @MrD I am sure you know it is referred to as core/operational costs, as I have mentioned several times in this thread.

What is it is NOT referred to is as you call it 'siphoning off' which as you know is a term for misappropriating funds.

Anyway the OP's thread has been derailed enough by this nonsense.

 

[ethical PR]

@Toby Willows

No - the op is not better off asking what a homeless person needs and putting his fiver directly where it’s needed rather than go through certain “official” routes.

There are lots of small voluntary organisations who do soup runs and/or go out to chat and provide donated goods. They work with other homeless organisations to understand what is wanted and by whom, so that efforts aren't duplicated. They don't fundraise through chuggers - but are just groups of local people who get together to help those who experience homelessness in their area.

Why don't you go out and volunteer with one your local ones and you will see what a difference this support makes - a truly humbling experience.

He would be much better working with one of them. The one work with in my city (In addition to the homeless charity I help to run) doesn't raise any funds. Everything is done by donation from residents and businesses.

 

[Mr D]

As someone who says they have worked in and for the charity sector for thirty years @MrD I am sure you know it is referred to as core/operational costs, as I have mentioned several times in this thread.

What is it is NOT referred to is as you call it 'siphoning off' which as you know is a term for misappropriating funds.

Anyway the OP's thread has been derailed enough by this nonsense.

So reposted:

Yes, some charities and voluntary groups core/operational cost part of what is given for other purposes. Including admin - OK, bills have to be paid. But sometimes way too much.

Its always worth researching a charity or voluntary group before parting with money, time or goods.

That better for you then?

Use whatever alternate terms you want. Your charity by any chance seen as spending 100% of its donations on its clients?

 

[Toby Willows]

@Toby Willows

No - the op is not better off asking what a homeless person needs and putting his fiver directly where it’s needed rather than go through certain “official” routes.

There are lots of small voluntary organisations who do soup runs and/or go out to chat and provide donated goods. They work with other homeless organisations to understand what is wanted and by whom, so that efforts aren't duplicated. They don't fundraise through chuggers - but are just groups of local people who get together to help those who experience homelessness in their area.

Why don't you go out and volunteer with one your local ones and you will see what a difference this support makes - a truly humbling experience.

He would be much better working with one of them. The one work with in my city (In addition to the homeless charity I help to run) doesn't raise any funds. Everything is done by donation from residents and businesses.

I purposely said “certain official...” as I am aware there are many small local charities were the vast majority of funds go directly to the “front line”. I fully support these

 

[Mr D]

The one work with in my city (In addition to the homeless charity I help to run) doesn't raise any funds. Everything is done by donation from residents and businesses.

Which is one of the common means of local fundraising.

 

[AWA Training]

Let me get one thing perfectly clear. What i plan to do is a personal choice. I see the homeless littering (for want of a better word) the streets. It can happen to anyone.

Regarding working with other charities, not a chance. Those who pay their executives 6 figure salaries not a chance. I will create my packs and pass them directly to them on the street. This way too, i can be assured its getting to source. Not lining the pockets of some charity.

I also did not really post this for debate or scrutiny. This is what i choose to do and will do

 

[Toby Willows]

Let me get one thing perfectly clear. What i plan to do is a personal choice. I see the homeless littering (for want of a better word) the streets. It can happen to anyone.

Regarding working with other charities, not a chance. Those who pay their executives 6 figure salaries not a chance. I will create my packs and pass them directly to them on the street. This way too, i can be assured its getting to source. Not lining the pockets of some charity.

I also did not really post this for debate or scrutiny. This is what i choose to do and will do

Good for you.

To many businesses posing as charities these days. Apparently (according to government figures) there were 168,000 charities as of March 2018, 1,000 odd up in since June 2017, and with a total annual income of £76 billion it’s obviously a profitable venture for many.

 

[ethical PR]

So reposted:

Your charity by any chance seen as spending 100% of its donations on its clients?

As I have already clearly stated in an earlier post, the charity I am part of, is run entirely on a voluntary basis and through donations of goods, food, drinks and money. We pay for core costs such as accountants, insurance and legal costs.

The voluntary organisation I work with locally which does the soup runs, doesn't have any operating costs. It provides soup, food and also items that people need depending on the season and we liaise with other local charities working with street homeless so that we don't go out and duplicate what others are doing. We don't have financial donations just goods in kind.

 

[Mr D]

As I have already clearly stated in an earlier post, the charity I am part of, is run entirely on a voluntary basis and through donations of goods, food, drinks and money. We pay for core costs such as accountants, insurance and legal costs.

The voluntary organisation I work with locally which does the soup runs, doesn't have any operating costs. It provides soup, food and also items that people need depending on the season and we liaise with other local charities working with street homeless so that we don't go out and duplicate what others are doing. We don't have financial donations just goods in kind.

Nice to know some still understand how to do soup runs.
Not all organisations do.

There used to be an organisation in a seaside town I stayed in that on a Sunday evening collected all the unused sandwiches from the local hotels that would otherwise be thrown away and used them as part of its late Sunday evening food supply to the homeless. Can be done with any sympathetic organisation with an unused buffet that would be thrown out.

 

[AWA Training]

And our method of donation will be passing out packs to those i have seen on the streets over and over. Spoken to and know their situation.

My packs will contain things of use. How do i know they are of use? I have spoken to them, and it make sense. Things hard to get when you have little or no money. I will not post my intentions to avoid further debate or scruitiny. But they will not know who i am when i hand a pack. They will not have a business card. It will be just me with a smile on my face saying hello. Let the soup kitchens do their excellent work, while i plough on after they have long packed up and gone home. Make no mistake i respect the excellent work they do.

But this is mine, and i will move forward the way i see necessary helping as i see fit

I thank you all for your comments

 

[AWA Training]

Can i also just mention, i have bugger all respect generally for charities.

Haiti Appeal raised billions to assist there. But hardly any worthwile work done. US RC was the recipient there.

Grenfell, some 14 m raised. Most of it disappeared or squandered. Some company setup to look after it. Most of the trustees resigned. Again indicative of the mentality of charities these days. That money would have placed most 22 households left homeless into their own home. But no, many are in sheltered accommodation. So what is happening there?.

So the word "Charity" to me is askin to "Business" not much of a difference these days. So i will run my humble contribution without the said of a local "Charity" my way, how i see fit I know then its GETTING to source and i HAVE PUT IT THERE!.

 

[Mr D]

And our method of donation will be passing out packs to those i have seen on the streets over and over. Spoken to and know their situation.

My packs will contain things of use. How do i know they are of use? I have spoken to them, and it make sense. Things hard to get when you have little or no money. I will not post my intentions to avoid further debate or scruitiny. But they will not know who i am when i hand a pack. They will not have a business card. It will be just me with a smile on my face saying hello. Let the soup kitchens do their excellent work, while i plough on after they have long packed up and gone home. Make no mistake i respect the excellent work they do.

But this is mine, and i will move forward the way i see necessary helping as i see fit

I thank you all for your comments

And you will be doing a good job.

If more people cared about others then maybe some of the problems that exist could be reduced.

 

[Mr D]

Can i also just mention, i have bugger all respect generally for charities.

Haiti Appeal raised billions to assist there. But hardly any worthwile work done. US RC was the recipient there.

Grenfell, some 14 m raised. Most of it disappeared or squandered. Some company setup to look after it. Most of the trustees resigned. Again indicative of the mentality of charities these days. That money would have placed most 22 households left homeless into their own home. But no, many are in sheltered accommodation. So what is happening there?.

So the word "Charity" to me is askin to "Business" not much of a difference these days. So i will run my humble contribution without the said of a local "Charity" my way, how i see fit I know then its GETTING to source and i HAVE PUT IT THERE!.

Sadly cannot say you are wrong.

Add in government and its departments, quite capable of making problems worse but not so capable of solving problems for humans....

 

[Spectre]

I have just read this, and could have got on my soap box, but am so glad that common sense has been published.

While I have breath in me, I would never donate to charity as it is nothing but lining the pockets of a professional scam. Yes, it is legal, as they have a charity number, charitable objects, and tick every box in the charity commissions pack. Yet it is nothing more than glory hunting self referencing twats getting a good screw out of selling guilt to the masses.

If my next door neighbours kid had a disease that needed big money to send him/her to the states for surgery, I would bend over backwards to help them, and donate whatever I could, as I want to help, but established charities take the piss, and employ people who are memebers of a fundraising body qualification, and it is merely guilt trips to get money in.

I will give money to those in need, but will never ever give money to those who say a section is in need. Cut out the middle man, who is only there for their over average salary.

And considering the Haiti fiasco where global donations paid for prostitutes to satisfy junkets, for me , it will be never again. Just google it, and hope you find it as reprehensible

 

[Mr D]

I have just read this, and could have got on my soap box, but am so glad that common sense has been published.

While I have breath in me, I would never donate to charity as it is nothing but lining the pockets of a professional scam. Yes, it is legal, as they have a charity number, charitable objects, and tick every box in the charity commissions pack. Yet it is nothing more than glory hunting self referencing twats getting a good screw out of selling guilt to the masses.

If my next door neighbours kid had a disease that needed big money to send him/her to the states for surgery, I would bend over backwards to help them, and donate whatever I could, as I want to help, but established charities take the piss, and employ people who are memebers of a fundraising body qualification, and it is merely guilt trips to get money in.

I will give money to those in need, but will never ever give money to those who say a section is in need. Cut out the middle man, who is only there for their over average salary.

And considering the Haiti fiasco where global donations paid for prostitutes to satisfy junkets, for me , it will be never again. Just google it, and hope you find it as reprehensible

So if the next door neighbours asked for money you would help, if they set up a charity to help him you wouldn't?

Yes some established charities do employ people who are members of a professional body. A few thousand members spread across major charities, support organisations, professional suppliers of services.
Would you want to employ someone with a qualification in fundraising to raise money or someone who has picked up bits here and there?

If you want to employ an accountant, a financial adviser, a project manager - will you be wanting to use someone with a professional qualification and part of an organisation that supports and trains its members?

The charities are middlemen, you are right on that. Capable of doing stuff that individuals find hard or impossible.
You give the local homeless drunk £200 to get accommodation for a week are you helping them or harming them?
Local charity gets the local homeless drunk into a shelter for a week with some meals, showers and changes of clothes are they helping them or harming them?

Many charities don't use paid staff. The people taking the money are the utility companies, landlords, council, bin company, supermarkets etc.

 

[Inva]

I always say, if you want to profit then start a nonprofit! Of course nonprofits are going to portray themselves as some sort of saints or whatever, but the cold truth is that it's nothing more than a business model, based on the desire of the general public to know that someone is taking care of the poor and feel good about themselves for donating.

Charity nonprofits, all they do is patch up and never solve anything. The reason is simple, if the problem was solved then there would be no need for them, then they'd have to find another form of employment.

I'd rather buy the homeless person a chocolate personally.

That said, be careful because some homeless/beggars are in that position by their own laziness. I don't see the point in helping those. If you can, try to offer them some form of employment, or maybe you can organise a social business. I think that's the best way to help.

 

[Mr D]

I always say, if you want to profit then start a nonprofit! Of course nonprofits are going to portray themselves as some sort of saints or whatever, but the cold truth is that it's nothing more than a business model, based on the desire of the general public to know that someone is taking care of the poor and feel good about themselves for donating.

Charity nonprofits, all they do is patch up and never solve anything. The reason is simple, if the problem was solved then there would be no need for them, then they'd have to find another form of employment.

I'd rather buy the homeless person a chocolate personally.

That said, be careful because some homeless/beggars are in that position by their own laziness. I don't see the point in helping those. If you can, try to offer them some form of employment, or maybe you can organise a social business. I think that's the best way to help.

Never solve anything?
You've been looking at the wrong charities. There's Stepchange - it won't stop debt. For the individuals it does help then its making a difference.
And is a free (to public) service that some companies charge thousands for.

And your help for the homeless by giving them chocolate makes no difference overall. They are still homeless afterwards and just as cold, wet, in danger etc as they were before.

 

[estwig]

That said, be careful because some homeless/beggars are in that position by their own laziness. I don't see the point in helping those. If you can, try to offer them some form of employment, or maybe you can organise a social business. I think that's the best way to help.

Maybe we could arrange for the lazy ones to wear a badge, or just shot them and save the hassle.

 

[ethical PR]

I have just read this, and could have got on my soap box, but am so glad that common sense has been published.

While I have breath in me, I would never donate to charity as it is nothing but lining the pockets of a professional scam. Yes, it is legal, as they have a charity number, charitable objects, and tick every box in the charity commissions pack. Yet it is nothing more than glory hunting self referencing twats getting a good screw out of selling guilt to the masses.

If my next door neighbours kid had a disease that needed big money to send him/her to the states for surgery, I would bend over backwards to help them, and donate whatever I could, as I want to help, but established charities take the piss, and employ people who are memebers of a fundraising body qualification, and it is merely guilt trips to get money in.

I will give money to those in need, but will never ever give money to those who say a section is in need. Cut out the middle man, who is only there for their over average salary.

And considering the Haiti fiasco where global donations paid for prostitutes to satisfy junkets, for me , it will be never again. Just google it, and hope you find it as reprehensible

Your soap box rant makes no sense.

The vast majority of charities are run properly, are open and transparent and clearly can't line the pockets of individuals as their accounts are open to the public and salaries are fixed.

If you donate through a charity you know there are safeguards in place about how money is used. If you donate directly to your neighbour the money could be spent on anything.

Charities are able to work on their own and with other partners to make a massive impact. Look at what has been achieved in terms of cancer research, supporting those with mental health issues, the amazing hospice care that is provided for those at the end of their lives including children who are terminally ill, tackling homelessness, providing water and sanitation in developing countries. That can't be achieved by an individual.

If you don't want to support charities who are making an incredible difference, then don't. But nor should you put others down who volunteer and work in the sector or support their chosen charity.

 

[HazelC]

I think what you are doing is a great thing - however, and speaking from experience as a volunteer of a homeless charity; check what they need.

Everyone thinks they need toothbrushes and toothpaste, but actually this is just one more thing to carry around and often (from experience) they don't have teeth.

Everyone donates toiletries. I had to give a toiletry gift pack a kind-hearted person has made up for a homeless person. It was full of smellies, and the homeless person (male) cried because he felt everyone thought he smelt and that was why that was the donation.

Shoes and coats are very well received, along with a hot drink, a smile and a chat.

I know this may not be the answer you were hoping for... if you'd like more details on what I do then just ask. This is a link to one blog post about it; http://www.creativecontent.company/LightProjectPeterborough.html

 

[Inva]

Maybe we could arrange for the lazy ones to wear a badge, or just shot them and save the hassle.

If they're drunk or smoke or parade children - i don't help

 

[Mr D]

If they're drunk or smoke or parade children - i don't help

I can visualise the first two, the last is more questionable.
Do you wait and see if their children take part in the local church parade of scouts / guides etc first before deciding?
As an arbitrary method of choosing who to help I daresay your methods work for you.
Others can choose different methods.

I'll use accuracy. Some charities use sensational claims that are not backed up by evidence. Or cannot fit into the reality we are in.

 

[estwig]

If they're drunk or smoke or parade children - i don't help

That's ok, I don't help people who feel entitled enough to pass judgment on others, based on nothing more than a bias.

 

[Newchodge]

he vast majority of charities are run properly, are open and transparent and clearly can't line the pockets of individuals as their accounts are open to the public and salaries are fixed.

While I would love to agree with you, and I do believe there are a number of charities that do excellent and valuable work, would you care to comment on the charities commission complaint yesterday about the RSPCA paying an excessive severance payment to their temporary CEO?

Or the numerous charities that pay their CEO's more than the Prime Minister is paid to run the country? There are abuses, some of them serious, and I would suggest that the whole sector needs a thorough overhaul.

Why, for example, is Eton school a charity and able to benefit from enormous tax breaks because of its status?