Holidays working FTE over 4 days

[JDX_John]

Our small business has 1 additional employee. She works 4 days on a .8 contract but this has grown to realistically being more like a full-time job so we were going to offer to make that official, increase salary to FTE level.

However, this seems like it could bite us on holiday law. If it's FTE we have to give her 28 days off, regardless if she works 3 12hr days or 6 6hr days, right? Or, does a "day of holiday" not have to mean a literal day? Because 28 days holiday on a 4 day week is quite a lot.

I had wondered, would it be reasonable to keep on at 0.8FTE and increase her salary 25%? Or is this all a none-issue?

 

[Newchodge]

Our small business has 1 additional employee. She works 4 days on a .8 contract but this has grown to realistically being more like a full-time job so we were going to offer to make that official, increase salary to FTE level.

However, this seems like it could bite us on holiday law. If it's FTE we have to give her 28 days off, regardless if she works 3 12hr days or 6 6hr days, right? Or, does a "day of holiday" not have to mean a literal day? Because 28 days holiday on a 4 day week is quite a lot.

I had wondered, would it be reasonable to keep on at 0.8FTE and increase her salary 25%? Or is this all a none-issue?

Wrong. She is, and always has been, entitled to 5.6 weeks' holiday. If her working week is 4 days she is, and always has been, entitled to 22.4 days. Her holiday pay will increase in line with her salary.

It is all a non-issue. The 0.8% exists only in your mind. 0.8% of what?

 

[JDX_John]

If I work a FTE role (say 37.5 hours) but I do it over 4 days, am I entitled to 28 days holiday, or 22.4?

Nobody mentioned 0.8%. Her contract says she is 0.8FTE (80%). Surely you know what that means? It's a 0.8 job (4 full days) which has ended up being 4 long days and as such the number of hours she is actually working is more like a full-time job.

 

[Newchodge]

If I work a FTE role (say 37.5 hours) but I do it over 4 days, am I entitled to 28 days holiday, or 22.4?

Nobody mentioned 0.8%. Her contract says she is 0.8FTE (80%). Surely you know what that means? It's a 0.8 job (4 full days) which has ended up being 4 long days and as such the number of hours she is actually working is more like a full-time job.

Sorry 0.8 or 80% both have meaning only in your workplace, not anywhere else. There is no definition, anywhere of full time working hours. In some places full time may mean 30 hours, in others it may be 48 hours.

Holiday entitlement is expressed in weeks. 5.6 weeks is the statutory minimum. 1 day/week means 5.6 days holiday. 5 days means 28 days. However the minimum amount is reduced if you work 6 days/week. The statutory amount is capped at 28 days.

 

[JDX_John]

So if I was employing someone who works 3 hours every morning Mon-Fri, you're saying they'd be due 28 days. And if I have someone working 12 hours a day Mon-Wed, they'd be due 16.8 days? In other words it doesn't matter how long the working days are, just how many days they work - so it basically works itself out?

 

[Newchodge]

So if I was employing someone who works 3 hours every morning Mon-Fri, you're saying they'd be due 28 days. And if I have someone working 12 hours a day Mon-Wed, they'd be due 16.8 days? In other words it doesn't matter how long the working days are, just how many days they work - so it basically works itself out?

Yes. The person working 3 hours takes the whole week off, uses 5 days' holiday and gets paid for 15 hours. The person working 12 hours takes the whole week off, uses 3 days' holday and gets paid for 36 hours. They all, effectively, get the same.

You need to be aware of bank holidays. 5.6 weeks can include all bank holidays. So if a bank holiday falls on a Monday all those who work on a Monday use 1 day's leave to get paid for that day. Those who do not work Mondays do not use any leave and do not get paid for it, as they never get paid for a Monday.

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

I think a few companies now calculate holidays on an hourly basis instead of a day basis - eg. employers have x number of hours per year. Not sure what the implications are though - perhaps @Newchodge can advise?

 

[Newchodge]

I think a few companies now calculate holidays on an hourly basis instead of a day basis - eg. employers have x number of hours per year. Not sure what the implications are though - perhaps @Newchodge can advise?

As long as it is based on (at least) 5.6 weeks, there is no issue. The real problem comes when there is an employee without contractual hours and who works different days and hours each week. I used to calculate it by applying 12.07% to the number of hours actually worked, but that has been outlawed by the Court of Appeal.

 

[JDX_John]

You need to be aware of bank holidays. 5.6 weeks can include all bank holidays. So if a bank holiday falls on a Monday all those who work on a Monday use 1 day's leave to get paid for that day. Those who do not work Mondays do not use any leave and do not get paid for it, as they never get paid for a Monday.

This was going to be my next question because the employee in question currently works Tue-Thur. We're closed on many bank holidays but there are 3 Mondays we are open for. They way you describe it makes sense.

I think a few companies now calculate holidays on an hourly basis instead of a day basis - eg. employers have x number of hours per year. Not sure what the implications are though - perhaps @Newchodge can advise?

I remember seeing working about "typical week". It does raise the question regarding irregular shift patterns e.g. what if she sometimes works Mondays but not others, or works 4 days a week except when covering for someone on holiday?

 

[Mr D]

I think a few companies now calculate holidays on an hourly basis instead of a day basis - eg. employers have x number of hours per year. Not sure what the implications are though - perhaps @Newchodge can advise?

Those of us on less than full time hours often have leave expressed in hours but can be expressed in weeks for comparison purposes. It is the same total time allowed off.

 

[Bushman]

I used to calculate it by applying 12.07% to the number of hours actually worked, but that has been outlawed by the Court of Appeal.

That's the way I work it out. If it's been outlawed what's the correct way now?

 

[Newchodge]

That's the way I work it out. If it's been outlawed what's the correct way now?

The current 'correct' way is to take the last 52 weeks that someone has been paid to work (but not flexi- furloughed (I think) to establish the average working week. Holday entitlment is 5.6 times that figure. If they have been employed that long you must go back up to 104 weeks in order to get 52 weeks that have been worked. It is a nightmare and the case that outlawed 12.07% is going to the Supreme Court, but not necessarily on that point.

 

[Bushman]

The current 'correct' way is to take the last 52 weeks that someone has been paid to work (but not flexi- furloughed (I think) to establish the average working week. Holday entitlment is 5.6 times that figure. If they have been employed that long you must go back up to 104 weeks in order to get 52 weeks that have been worked. It is a nightmare and the case that outlawed 12.07% is going to the Supreme Court, but not necessarily on that point.

Thanks Cyndy, like you say, a nightmare to work out and just when we've got used to it they will probably change the rules again.

 

[Newchodge]

This was going to be my next question because the employee in question currently works Tue-Thur. We're closed on many bank holidays but there are 3 Mondays we are open for. They way you describe it makes sense.


I remember seeing working about "typical week". It does raise the question regarding irregular shift patterns e.g. what if she sometimes works Mondays but not others, or works 4 days a week except when covering for someone on holiday?

Occasional additional hours don't accrue additional holiday entitlement but their rate of pay may increase. It works like this:

4 day week, 6 hour days as normal, so holiday is 22.4 days or 134.4 hours. All that holiday is paid at the normal rate and the amount of paid holiday will not change.

However if the employee works occasional overtime/holiday cover etc. they would normally be paid for those additional worked hours. Their normal weekly rate is £240. If they work an additional day their pay for that week is £300. To calculate their weekly pay for holiday pay you go back their 52 working weeks to get their average weekly pay and that is their weekly holiday pay. You recalculate for every time they take a holiday, going back 52 weeks from the day before they go on holiday. Another nightmare. If you pay staff monthly you are still expected to work out their weekly rate for every week. Most payroll software does not do this for you.

Sometimes I find part of my business quite annoying