High Court Enforcement Ltd

[essexboy]

Has any one heard of these guys? the callad at the rgistered office (my home) of a company I had to closed last year to enforce a CCJ that had been (escalated) to the high court.
Any help appreciated.
FYI we wrote to the few renaining minor creditors when we closed the company advising them of our intention to de register after three months. This is the first we have heard from this creditor..

 

[M-C Hoare]

If the company is dissolved then there is nothing they can do unless they restore the company to the register, which is unlikely if the company has no value.
Provided that the company was conducted and closed properly then the debt died with the company. However, if there was any misconduct, they may try to make the directors personally liable but this is always notoriously difficult. Or if there were any transactions at an undervalue or whatever, then they could seek to set these aside to get the assets back.
But as I say, if it was all done properly then you are free and clear.
Marie

 

[essexboy]

Due to me being overseas for the last two months of 2010 the company is not yet de registered..

 

[habanero]

High Court Enforcement is based on assets. If the company was the only liable party and it has no assets then enforcement is impossible. The fact that the company may be still active it is irrelevant. However, if you have assets of your company at your home address (or any address for that matter) they are entitled to seize these assets and seek payment.

 

[daniel.benson]

They would of shown you a fifa writ, was it in the company name or your own name?

Are you trading from the same address as the old company with new debts?

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

If the company is dissolved then there is nothing they can do unless they restore the company to the register, which is unlikely if the company has no value.
Provided that the company was conducted and closed properly then the debt died with the company. However, if there was any misconduct, they may try to make the directors personally liable but this is always notoriously difficult. Or if there were any transactions at an undervalue or whatever, then they could seek to set these aside to get the assets back.
But as I say, if it was all done properly then you are free and clear.
Marie

If I wanted to try to hold a former director personally liable for a unpaid debt that caused an untold amount of damage to things a couple of years ago . What would the costs be (roughly) if you could prove that company was trading illigally for a couple of years .?

 

[essexboy]

Hi Daniel,

They have never shown anything other than a page with their name on and what seems to me to be allot of sudo legalese telling me that we must pay or else.

What troubles me is that they have visited twice seem to be choosing times of the day that I would be at work and my wife is home alone..

We have been told that they have no right of access, is this correct?

I have to say that having run my company for 16 years and having in the last four put so much personal money into keeping it going, there seem little benefit so far to closing it "properly" rather than running up huge debits and getting out while the getting was good...

Thanks to all

Essexboy

 

[varkcold]

Is your Company a Limited Company?

if so this may offer you a degree of protection under the law as a director of a defunct business from incuring any outstanding depts that remained on company books upon ceaseing tradeing ... i.e limited liability of your personal assets

 

[daniel.benson]

Hi Daniel,

They have never shown anything other than a page with their name on and what seems to me to be allot of sudo legalese telling me that we must pay or else.

What troubles me is that they have visited twice seem to be choosing times of the day that I would be at work and my wife is home alone..

We have been told that they have no right of access, is this correct?

I have to say that having run my company for 16 years and having in the last four put so much personal money into keeping it going, there seem little benefit so far to closing it "properly" rather than running up huge debits and getting out while the getting was good...

Thanks to all

Essexboy

Ask to see a copy of the writ, then make sure it has been seeld by the court as writs are available online.

They will visit at between 6am or 9pm or they may call at any reasonable time to you.

If the premises they visit is a commercial premises they may force entry at any time without prior notice. They cannot force entry if its a dwelling or the building forms part of a dwelling, if it is part of a dwelling the normally entry rules apply such as open door or window etc. It is a criminal offence to obstruct a HECO officer.

Best option would be to either admit that you owe the money call them to set up a payment plan, this will also stop them from visiting you again and adding more charges per visit, or you need to seek some legal advice to set the judgement aside and sort this situation out.

Its the same of situation the honest business man suffering while there are hundreds of other business men jumping from one ltd company to another avoiding debts. Try not to worry to much give them a call and work something out.

 

[mcgovern]

High court enforcement ltd are a big company based out of croydon.

A bailiff/HCO have no right to force entry to your home unless its for a Magistrates fine.

Just make sure you do not allow access for whatever reason, they can however levy any goods outside the property belonging to the company.

 

[Alan R Price]

If I wanted to try to hold a former director personally liable for a unpaid debt that caused an untold amount of damage to things a couple of years ago . What would the costs be (roughly) if you could prove that company was trading illigally for a couple of years .?

This may seem obvious but check to see that your documentation is actually in the company's name, not in the director's or some trading name that he used before the company was incorporated. If it is not in the company's name you may be able to sue him personally.

Assuming your claim does lie against the company only, first you would have to put the company into liquidation. The liquidator would have to carry out an investigation into the company's affairs. He would have to establish misconduct by the director, such as wrongful (i.e. insolvent) trading or misfeasance (effectively, gross mismanagement). These are complicated and time-consuming to prove. He would then have to sue the director for the damage caused to the company and possibly then have to enforce any judgment by making him bankrupt or getting charging orders over property, etc.

The costs of the investigations and legal action would in the first instance be payable out of the company's assets but if it had none the liquidator would ask you to fund him. You are looking at a minimum of £5,000 for the investigation alone (and potentially a lot more, depending on how complicated the matter is) and probably £25,000 for any litigation. The problem is that these matters take literally hundreds of hours' work to bring to a conclusion.

And if the liquidator was successful, after repaying you any costs you had advanced, any money he got out of the directors would be distributed ratably amongst all the creditors - you would not acquire any priority in spite of the risk you had taken.

All-in-all, unless the company had substantial assets, you would have to have very deep pockets and the figures involved would have to be very significant to make it worthwhile. And you would have to be prepared for the long haul. I'm afraid it's not very attractive.

 

[daniel.benson]

High court enforcement ltd are a big company based out of croydon.

A bailiff/HCO have no right to force entry to your home unless its for a Magistrates fine.

Just make sure you do not allow access for whatever reason, they can however levy any goods outside the property belonging to the company.

A bailiff/HCEO may force entry if they have made peaceful entry to said premisses before and Bailiffs from HMRC can also force entry so long as they have a magistrates warrant to do so.

 

[Alan R Price]

A bailiff/HCEO may force entry if they have made peaceful entry to said premisses before and Bailiffs from HMRC can also force entry so long as they have a magistrates warrant to do so.

Isn't it the case though that they are only entitled onto premises owned/occupied by the debtor? They have no right of entry to a director's house in respect of a company debt. And if they trick their way in the first time they have no right of re-entry, forcible or otherwise.

 

[daniel.benson]

Isn't it the case though that they are only entitled onto premises owned/occupied by the debtor? They have no right of entry to a director's house in respect of a company debt. And if they trick their way in the first time they have no right of re-entry, forcible or otherwise.

Hi Alan,

They cannot force entry to a commercial property if its linked to or forms part of the residential property However HMRC Bailiffs and Bailiffs collecting magistrate fines can if they have a magistrates warrant to do so, Although I've never heard of them doing so.

If a HCEO officer visits the address of a debtor such as their home normal powers of entry apply.

 

[Alan R Price]

Hi Alan,

They cannot force entry to a commercial property if its linked to or forms part of the residential property However HMRC Bailiffs and Bailiffs collecting magistrate fines can if they have a magistrates warrant to do so, Although I've never heard of them doing so.

If a HCEO officer visits the address of a debtor such as their home normal powers of entry apply.

I agree but my point is that I don't believe the director's home address qualifies as the company's property even if it is the registered office.

 

[daniel.benson]

I agree but my point is that I don't believe the director's home address qualifies as the company's property even if it is the registered office.

There are many different rules, regulations and people saying yes he can no he cant but the HECO has a duty to levy upon the defendant's goods wherever they may be found within England and Wales. The HCEO may visit the home of a director or a ltd company if they believe that goods of the defendant may be located there such vehicles etc, as said before they have to use the normal powers of entry.

The address on the writ may be changed at anytime.

The only place a HCEO cannot make a levy is at a royal residence or diplomatic address.

(that's it in short)

 

[mcgovern]

A Bailiff or a HCEO cannot remove a vehicle if it is on private land, such as a neighbours driveway.

The writ or warrant would have to have the correct demised premises address , otherwise the bailiff or HCEO would be trespassing, regardless if they hold a warrant.

A bailiff or HCEO can levy if a vehicle is on a neighbours driveway but removel would not not be legal.

Most HCEO'S and bailiffs are not fully aware of what they can and cant do. This is down to lack of training and experience.

If you look closely at your levy sheet/ seizure ( form 7) most bailiffs do not even fill out a full seizure notice correctly i.e. walking around and being thorough . in order to make a full inventory it takes time and frankly being intrusive.

Most form 7's are very unclear i.e. 1 x widescreen tv, 1 x dvd player, it should be listed as 1x sanyo widesreen 37 inch tv serial number 12341231222.

If you have a parking fine and a bailiff has been in to your property, have a look at your levy sheet, if they have listed your sofa or washing machine, these are items they cannot take.

for example if a bailiff has entered your propery and has taken a walking possesion of your goods ( form 8) have a close look as to what they can actually take, because a bailiff can only take what he has previously levied, if some goods are exempt then he/ she is limited to perhaps hardly anything i.e 1x tv, 1x dvd player.

In order to remove these goods they would have to re-gain acess to you property, this would involve a locksmith, which would cost minimum £70, they would also have to have permission from the client( local authority) this is very rare.

so would a bailiff spend money and time over a case that would actually cost them money in the long run? I think not.

 

[daniel.benson]

A Bailiff or a HCEO cannot remove a vehicle if it is on private land, such as a neighbours driveway.

The writ or warrant would have to have the correct demised premises address , otherwise the bailiff or HCEO would be trespassing, regardless if they hold a warrant.

A bailiff or HCEO can levy if a vehicle is on a neighbours driveway but removel would not not be legal.

Most HCEO'S and bailiffs are not fully aware of what they can and cant do. This is down to lack of training and experience.

If you look closely at your levy sheet/ seizure ( form 7) most bailiffs do not even fill out a full seizure notice correctly i.e. walking around and being thorough . in order to make a full inventory it takes time and frankly being intrusive.

Most form 7's are very unclear i.e. 1 x widescreen tv, 1 x dvd player, it should be listed as 1x sanyo widesreen 37 inch tv serial number 12341231222.

If you have a parking fine and a bailiff has been in to your property, have a look at your levy sheet, if they have listed your sofa or washing machine, these are items they cannot take.

for example if a bailiff has entered your propery and has taken a walking possesion of your goods ( form 8) have a close look as to what they can actually take, because a bailiff can only take what he has previously levied, if some goods are exempt then he/ she is limited to perhaps hardly anything i.e 1x tv, 1x dvd player.

In order to remove these goods they would have to re-gain acess to you property, this would involve a locksmith, which would cost minimum £70, they would also have to have permission from the client( local authority) this is very rare.

so would a bailiff spend money and time over a case that would actually cost them money in the long run? I think not.

I would stick to Wheel clamping if I was you.

Leave JBW to enforce your judgements.

 

[mcgovern]

Most members of UKBF may have seen some of my post's over the last couple of years and will know that I work within the Enforcement Industry, I hope that I have been honest and impartial with my advice that I have posted.

Please feel free to PM for any advice regarding Bailiff matters or Parking management.

 

[mcgovern]

I would stick to Wheel clamping if I was you.

Leave JBW to enforce your judgements.

To close to the bone?

I do not have judgements to enforce, If I did it certainly wouldnt be JBW enforcing them.

Just trying to give honest advise, with my 8 years of experience of actually enforcing warrants, that is magistrates fines , RTA, commercial rent, council tax CSA, Clamping orders, confiscation orders,forefiture of leases, Traveller evictions, ECo warrior evictions. Process serving, repossesing assets ( cars, boats, forklifts ect.)

 

[daniel.benson]

To close to the bone?

I do not have judgements to enforce, If I did it certainly wouldnt be JBW enforcing them.

http://www.getoffmyprivateland.com/page12.htm

Why does it say they do on your website then?

 

[mcgovern]

http://www.getoffmyprivateland.com/page12.htm

Why does it say they do on your website then?

where does it mention judgements? and where does it mention JBW?

 

[unet]

you cant blame people for being defensive - lot of bailiffs use pretty scummy practices and tricks to do over a client - putting £500 on a £100 court fine etc etc. So you obviously expect the odd "pop"

 

[mcgovern]

you cant blame people for being defensive - lot of bailiffs use pretty scummy practices and tricks to do over a client - putting £500 on a £100 court fine etc etc. So you obviously expect the odd "pop"

The worst people for charging vast fees are HCEO'S

 

[essexboy]

Update:

Today I contacted the originating court.

The original county court claim was in the company name only. On the HCE paperwork it states the company name and my self (former director) seems to have been added.

Is it possible to add a defendant after a case has been decided? Is this an option when converted from a CCJ to a hig court writ?

Thanks to all for the great advise so far..

Essex Boy..

 

[lockie]

As long as the bailiff cant gain entry via an open door or window including climbing over a fence to gain access to the rear of the property they cant do a thing.

I had a visit before xmas, told the hceo the company is no longer trading and there is no cash and assets, not seen them since.They put a charge on my van but thats nothing to do with the company so just sent a copy of the log book to them and they didnt show up when they said they would.

Locksmiths wont gain entry unless they see the proper paperwork of a warrant allowing entry (unless they are dodgy).If they are asked to gain entry without a warrant then the hceo is obtaining services by deception and falling foul of the law.

As your particular case showed yourself as director when you arent it may be possible to have the judgement set aside,the court can advise in this respect.