Help on Monetizing what I do already.

[SuperNova89]

Hi guys very new here so go easy on me.

So for the past 13 years (Since I was 18) I've been working in the gambling industry. When I come out of college at 18 I was making enough money playing online poker to live off. I did this for around 10 years or so, It got a lot harder and I really didn't enjoy doing it anymore. So I moved over to the sports betting industry and have been doing it the past 3-4 years.

I want to start monetizing what I'm already doing, I won't go into to much detail right now as it's not really needed but may do later, But in short. I want to create a subscription based service where I post certain bets probably to a place like Discord or Telegram, You may think that I'm sort of "Tipster" but I'm far from that, They mostly rely on affiliate money and I'm in no way going to use any type of affiliate.

I mentioned my past just because I've never learned how to start a business and also never had to deal with tax. Obviously if I'm charging for a service I'm going to need to learn how to do these.

I'm not sure what I'm actually asking here but I think I need advice on the following...

- How to register/start a business
- How to make sure I'm paying the correct Taxes
- How to setup a recurring billing service as I will be charging a monthly fee.... (I only really know Paypal, but even then I'm not sure how to do it on their site)

Any advice is much appreciated, If I missed something out please feel free to ask and I will answer the best I can.

 

[Interestedobserver]

This will be an interesting thread. I'm glad you said it's harder to make money online from poker now as you are being honest to start with.

I will come back with some ideas to help you in due course.

However, you will need to explain more about why what you do isn't just another tipster service

As people can get all kinds of gambling tips on all kinds of sports from all kinds of experts etc simply from buying a Racing Post

And there are countless tipster services already

What's going to be your USP to make people want to give you their hard earned gambling money?

 

[SuperNova89]

Thanks for the quick response. Poker just got generally tough everybody started getting better as training sites were getting released and the American market disappeared. Then my work ethic wasn't great, I never really enjoyed playing it was just something I kind of feel into and worked out for a while.

Ok the way I see Tipsters and I maybe wrong about this,

Tipsters get you to sign up with some sort affiliate system. They'll post bets to their followers on their platforms (Some say they do research on the bet) they use and basically they are in a win win situation. If the bet wins, The punters are happy! ... If they lose they get paid from the losing bets. That's what I think the basic concept is of a tipster. You may see them on Facebook or Twitter now and again, When they just won a 10 fold accumulator.

I think their are others that do it without a affiliate system and are probably more educated in the gambling industry.

Nearly always when your betting betting with a bookie your getting pretty bad odds/shortened odds, Making it very very unlikely your going to make a profit long term with betting on sports. Many punters don't know this or they do and they don't actually care when they really should.

Many tipsters claim to do deep research on their selections they make when in fact it doesn't actually matter how much research they do, If the price/odds are shortened then your not going to make profit long term. My model is solely based up upon the price.

I have over 5000 bets recorded right now and will be able to show detailed view and you could cross reference them with past results on sports to double check them. I have a certain market place I want to attack but I won't mention it (You might be able to guess), but when I get them to sign up with me I I want to move them off the site and then set up a recurring payment method, essentially taking that site that I got them from out of the equation.

Again if I missed something please feel free to ask.

 

[Ozzy]

- How to register/start a business
- How to make sure I'm paying the correct Taxes
- How to setup a recurring billing service as I will be charging a monthly fee.... (I only really know Paypal, but even then I'm not sure how to do it on their site)

I'm going to just answer these questions and avoid discussing gambling, because I personally campaign against it and dislike the industry. Personal family reasons...

You're asking the questions in the wrong order, you should look at it this way round;

- How to make sure I'm paying the correct Taxes
For this one you need an accountant. There are several on these forums you could speak to, and a good place to start would be to ask in the I'm looking for a... forum.

- How to register/start a business
Based on what your earning potential is and personal circumstances are, the accountant will recommend you either setup a Limited company or become a Sole Trader. The accountant will either offer to do that for you either way, or you can do so yourself on the Government website here

- How to setup a recurring billing service as I will be charging a monthly fee
I would not recommend PayPal, it's used on these forums for the membership subscriptions and it's a nightmare to administer. Something I'm looking at changing at some point.
You could look at services such as Stripe or similar, but ultimately what you use will depend on what software application you use to manage the subscriptions itself. For example, maybe you will have a website designed for your business and the subscription management is built into your website.

 

[IanSuth]

You probably want to take some specialist advice on the impact of the new Gambling Law & Regs 2021 to ensure that you do not find yourself needing to be licenced under those or subject to certain of their regs (i only know of it existence not it's details)

 

[Interestedobserver]

So you appear to be a professional gambler of some sort?

And if so to be successful you obviously need to win a decent margin ongoing?

So can you not just increase your stakes and profit margin accordingly?

 

[SuperNova89]

So you appear to be a professional gambler of some sort?

And if so to be successful you obviously need to win a decent margin ongoing?

So can you not just increase your stakes and profit margin accordingly?

I'd called myself more of a advantage player, but yes in the bigger world I'd be called a professional gambler.

In short no you cannot keep on increasing your stakes, Without going into too much detail if your taking value away from a sportsbook these are the exact type of customers a sportsbook doesn't want, So they'll either end up restricting you or outright banning you, (Very rare but it does happen).

 

[SuperNova89]

You probably want to take some specialist advice on the impact of the new Gambling Law & Regs 2021 to ensure that you do not find yourself needing to be licenced under those or subject to certain of their regs (i only know of it existence not it's details)

Thanks and good point I'll look into that,

 

[SuperNova89]

I'm going to just answer these questions and avoid discussing gambling, because I personally campaign against it and dislike the industry. Personal family reasons...

You're asking the questions in the wrong order, you should look at it this way round;

- How to make sure I'm paying the correct Taxes
For this one you need an accountant. There are several on these forums you could speak to, and a good place to start would be to ask in the

- How to register/start a business
Based on what your earning potential is and personal circumstances are, the accountant will recommend you either setup a Limited company or become a Sole Trader. The accountant will either offer to do that for you either way, or you can do so yourself on the Government

- How to setup a recurring billing service as I will be charging a monthly fee
I would not recommend PayPal, it's used on these forums for the membership subscriptions and it's a nightmare to administer. Something I'm looking at changing at some point.
You could look at services such as Stripe or similar, but ultimately what you use will depend on what software application you use to manage the subscriptions itself. For example, maybe you will have a website designed for your business and the subscription management is built into your website.

Thanks for this information pretty useful for a new head like me!

 

[BusterBloodvessel]

The question I'll always ask when I see these tipsters (I know you're saying you're different) is the age old - "if money can be made from this, why are you selling the info? Why not just go and make all the money yourself?"

That's a genuine question and not me making a wisecrack or being derogatory. Is there actually a reason?

If you could convince me, I might be your first paying customer, I'm certainly partial to a well researched flutter - not that my research is ever quite good enough!

 

[AllUpHere]

The question I'll always ask when I see these tipsters (I know you're saying you're different) is the age old - "if money can be made from this, why are you selling the info? Why not just go and make all the money yourself?"

That's a genuine question and not me making a wisecrack or being derogatory. Is there actually a reason?

If you could convince me, I might be your first paying customer, I'm certainly partial to a well researched flutter - not that my research is ever quite good enough!

This is the long and the short of any scepticism around such an idea, and you need to find a really strong position from which to defend your 'worth'.

I've got a bit of a formula that I stumbled upon years ago and it proves to be very accurate ( to the point that I can pick a winner about 70 to 80 percent of the time). I'm not a gambler and have no interest in making money from gambling, so have never 'monetised' it. If I were to want to make money from it, I certainly wouldn't sell the idea though, I'd just take a fortune from the various gambling sites.

 

[Interestedobserver]

And I would add that even if you have an edge and can make a worthwhile profit over time etc for you and your potential "clients" - the hard bit will be convincing those clients to believe you and subscribe etc

As you say somehwere above - when other tipsters sell tips etc there will be some clients that win and others that lose depending on timing of when they pay for the tips. Some very happy clients. Some unhappy ones etc.

Those guys don't even need long term profit to sell the tips they just need a queue of new punters ready to pay for those tips. And just good marketing to get people to use them.

But sounds like you need people to stay with you long term so they will need to be winning or making money consistently etc for them to stick with you?

Is it a way of playing betting markets that can guarantee ongoing small profit margins regardless of results or can the potential clients lose as well if the timing is wrong?

What kind of figures are you expecting clients to gamble with and also pay you to subscribe?

Looks like they too will be limited what they can do like you yourself are limited?

 

[mattk]

Have you looked at Patreon? Their service is exactly what you're looking for, a tiered membership/subscription model where you can post exclusive content to your subscribers.

 

[SuperNova89]

The question I'll always ask when I see these tipsters (I know you're saying you're different) is the age old - "if money can be made from this, why are you selling the info? Why not just go and make all the money yourself?"

That's a genuine question and not me making a wisecrack or being derogatory. Is there actually a reason?

If you could convince me, I might be your first paying customer, I'm certainly partial to a well researched flutter - not that my research is ever quite good enough!

That's where people are going wrong imo. You can research something all you want but if the price isn't right then its a no go. If Man City are 100% going to win a watch based on your research, Then you go to put your bet on them but your seeing the bookie is paying for every £100 you bet you get £5 you wouldn't take that bet would you? Price before Research imo.

That's a extreme example, but this is what bookies do all the time. They shortened the prices. If you want to bet go bet on a exchange where your betting vs other people at much better odds. You'll probably break even in the very long term unless you find some sort of edge.

Why would I sell them? Because before I post the bet I will betting on before them anyway at my stake, Once I'm done, Whoever gets on it next has nothing to do with me. I do this daily anyway so why not make more worth of my time.

 

[Interestedobserver]

But once you have your bets on - the odds will not be as good for your clients?

Will they?

And the more your clients follow your bet the worse those odds will become?

Won't they?

 

[SuperNova89]

And I would add that even if you have an edge and can make a worthwhile profit over time etc for you and your potential "clients" - the hard bit will be convincing those clients to believe you and subscribe etc

As you say somehwere above - when other tipsters sell tips etc there will be some clients that win and others that lose depending on timing of when they pay for the tips. Some very happy clients. Some unhappy ones etc.

Those guys don't even need long term profit to sell the tips they just need a queue of new punters ready to pay for those tips. And just good marketing to get people to use them.

But sounds like you need people to stay with you long term so they will need to be winning or making money consistently etc for them to stick with you?

Is it a way of playing betting markets that can guarantee ongoing small profit margins regardless of results or can the potential clients lose as well if the timing is wrong?

What kind of figures are you expecting clients to gamble with and also pay you to subscribe?

Looks like they too will be limited what they can do like you yourself are limited?

There is a way of guarantee of making profits, but it takes up a bit more time a effort, When really long term it should work out all the same. The clients can gamble as much or as little as they want. I started small they don't have to follow me religiously, They won't even know the stakes I put on. I haven't decided on a price yet probably between £35-£50 a month.

I have 31 months recorded in my spreadsheet and 6 of them have been losing ones and the most I've had is 2 losing months in a row once.

In a ideal world everybody that joins me would stay with me for a long time. That's not reality though, They will end up getting restricted long term, it happens, but that is so so much better than betting with a sportsbook for the rest of your life that's just ripping you off. I'd hope and continue to get new customers in, Maybe based off reviews somehow?

 

[SuperNova89]

But once you have your bets on - the odds will not be as good for your clients?

Will they?

And the more your clients follow your bet the worse those odds will become?

Won't they?

Correct, They will shorten the price but not instantly. It honestly depends on the bookie on how fast. Some bookie leave them up at the same price for ages and some instantly shorten them.

I mostly bet on myself sites that don't shorten super quickly I use to but these tend to be the ones that limited your account.

I would want to use some sort of notification program like Telegram or something similar.

 

[SuperNova89]

Have you looked at Patreon? Their service is exactly what you're looking for, a tiered membership/subscription model where you can post exclusive content to your subscribers.

Thanks, I totally forgot about that site will take a look.

 

[intheTRADE]

Check out Betting God's although I think they require 6 months of tips before they verify you as a creditable service and add you their list of tipsters

I've done matched betting for around 5 years now and still making a decent profit each month. I've always been sceptical of tipsters services because of many of the reasons stated above.

If you have the holy grail of a tipping predictions then there is no way you would sell because it would reduce the liquidity in the market that you could find the odds worthwhile.

I am open to being proved wrong though. Past results mean nothing as well, people will want trials of your service from the day they find you before parting with any money for your tips

 

[MBE2017]

You might find monthly payment providers potentially awkward to secure, many avoid gambling type businesses from memory.

I used to have the odd flutter, matched betting as well but stopped approx a year ago due to boredom and other reasons. I am fortunate that I can stop anytime and have never gambled money I cannot afford to lose. Having looked at tipsters in the past, all of whom claim their system works, all of whom can say so many years successful personal gambling etc. Never seen a true claim yet.

 

[SuperNova89]

Both of you coming from matchbetting should know where I am coming from imo, In short and in match betting terms your basically arbing without actually arbing if that makes sense, Or you can choose to Arb if you want to but takes a bit more time and effort and sometimes it's not even possible to do so.

I really wish I didn't use the word "Tipster" cause generally people all think the same thing.

I find boosted prices and work out the true value of it, If it's +EV then it's good to go. If not I will monitor it and see if anything changes. Most people don't have the time nore the patients to do this, So essentially I'm spoon feeding people +EV bet's.

 

[Interestedobserver]

There is a way of guarantee of making profits, but it takes up a bit more time a effort, When really long term it should work out all the same. The clients can gamble as much or as little as they want. I started small they don't have to follow me religiously, They won't even know the stakes I put on. I haven't decided on a price yet probably between £35-£50 a month.

I have 31 months recorded in my spreadsheet and 6 of them have been losing ones and the most I've had is 2 losing months in a row once.

In a ideal world everybody that joins me would stay with me for a long time. That's not reality though, They will end up getting restricted long term, it happens, but that is so so much better than betting with a sportsbook for the rest of your life that's just ripping you off. I'd hope and continue to get new customers in, Maybe based off reviews somehow?

Yep don't think your clients will put the time or effort in as you describe

As another poster says above clients will take a lot of convincing to subscribe etc

If you are confident you will always be winning more than you are losing then can you not just get friends and family to set accounts up for you and bet more of your money on your behalf?

And/or get them set up and ask for a commission each month from their winnings?

If you can't get friends and family to trust you and gamble with your money let alone theirs then will be harder still getting general public to trust you, pay you and gamble their own money?

Having said that that I do understand why you think you can sell a service as well. But that's going to be very competitive. And clearly a few obstacles above to overcome.

I wish you luck though

But I would approach friends and family first. Will be easier and you could also test how it all works and see how happy they are with the results. They can then give reviews and testimonials etc

 

[revs]

I've been trading/arbing for 20 years, ever since flutter/betfair came to market. The hours of work, the stress, bookmaker closures and the rise of the trading robots has made the game unviable in my eyes. Its true you can still make a living but there are easier ways to make money. I'm looking for alternative opportunities outside of the gambling sector and I would encourage you to do the same. Just out of interest, which sports to you focus on?

 

[SuperNova89]

I mean this isn't hard work, it just a bit of a pain to do.

I normally bet on any sport if the bet has value it, I tend to stay away from Horses though as I don't like the swings to much on that sport. To the point though, Football mostly but will bet on Tennis, Basketball, Golf etc etc

 

[The Byre]

there are easier ways to make money.

I have a couple of friends that are professional gamblers. Both are on the gee-gees. One goes to the races and closely checks out the gee-gees, the other uses satellite coverage. The going-there guy is nose above water. The satellite guy is nose below water.

The going-there guy says that it is bloody hard work. He stands around for hours waiting for a good and eager horse that suits the going and that the punters have overlooked. Easy, it am not!

I'll stick to my gig. The hours and the pay-outs are better!

 

[revs]

True, I've had 100 hour weeks with £1m turnover for tiny profit, its far from easy money! Maybe best to take the low hanging fruit if you can access it. You can have this one for free (10 or 11 places each way in the golf US PGA - you can hedge the bet and guarantee the win!)

 

[Interestedobserver]

I honestly don't think there's guaranteed money to be made betting on English football

Football is one of those games where the best teams don't always win

And there's so much scrutiny on it that it's hard for the wrong odds to be laid on teams

Plus the people setting the odds are experts themselves

 

[BeyondTheIllusion]

go out and see if there are people wanting your service; do that before anything else