Health and safety advice needed

[Pet Nanny]

As a small business we are constantly targeted by companies stating that we need this that and the other protection. This morning I received a call from a company who said that failure to provide health and safety onsite is breaking the law!

Well that may be true, but since we do not actually employ anyone, and our sitters work in clients properties, how can we be responsible for health and safety onsite?

Would appreciate help on this one please.

 

[Antonia @limeone.com]

As per previous advice given on this site and others, you still have a duty to care for those you place as sitters. As such you need to carry out risk assessments on each place of work for the sitter.

It is possible to get them to complete the form for each house but normally businesses have policies in place to ensure compliance, it need not be a big problem and you certainly should shop around for the necessary items rather than responding to a telesales call trying to scare you into signing up for a package.

Your insurance company normally also require you to have such processes and policies in place so ensure that any you do use are compliant with their requirements also.

For a good starting point have a look at this http://www.hse.gov.uk/business/index.htm and particularly how wide the legal interpretation is regarding workers.

 

[Pet Nanny]

Thanks Antonia. I have previously worried about Employers Liability, but was assured that since we were not the employer, that we would not require this level of insurance.

I just cannot understand why we would need this health and safety cover, since we act as an agency only, and introduce our sitters to the client. Surely the workplace in this instance is the clients house, and therefore not our responsibility.

It seems that there are so many restrictions placed on small business, and in some cases you question if it is worth having one!

 

[Ashley]

It seems that there are so many restrictions placed on small business, and in some cases you question if it is worth having one!

I ask myself that daily

 

[ken_uk]

I would not be suprised if many of the rules and regs were put in place by people who are on the boards of multinationals, or have lots of shares in them, or get some sort of funding from them.

The more restrictions they can place on small business, the less competition from startups, that may one day rival them, there will be - they are protecting their wallets....

 

[Sparky331]

If your sitters live in, as part of the risk assesment process please make sure the clients' houses are fitted with working smoke alarms. Part of your duty of care to the sitters you place.

Bob

 

[Ashley]

yes and they should visit 10 days in advance and form a formal fire plan, with diagrams submit to home owners and explain pets will need to complete a fire awareness course and should be trained on evacuation plan. Then the day before they go on holiday they should spring a surprise fire drill on the pets, any that fail, well it is the long good night.

Then on day of arrival they should inspect the household with a new eye, it is now a work place. Some emergency alterations may be needed, installing of emergency lighting and warning signs come to mind, and are those Pine doors 1/2 hour fire rated?

 

[Pet Nanny]

Well, if I didn't laugh I would cry. Seriously though, the cost to small business really does question if it is worth it. I cannot see how we can be expected to provide health and safety on site working, when they are staying in properties outside of our control.

Surely the onus is on the client to insure that the home is free of any hazards!

 

[Ashley]

I don't imagine that it is that much of a issue really, if it where we would never be able to have Sky installed.

If you put your mind to it one bit of A4 paper should do the trick. I have something in mind, but it depends really how you employ people.

 

[Fuzzy]

Pet Nanny, - Hi! I used to own an employment agency (even though I never employed anyone and only introduced them) and I had to have Employers and Public Liability Insurance.
Sorry!

 

[INDIZINE]

Going into peoples homes to feed pets, open curtain's move post, etc cant be any different to cleaners going into homes. What do they need with regards a risk assessment on the place of 'work'?

 

[Fuzzy]

Thanks Antonia. I have previously worried about Employers Liability, but was assured that since we were not the employer, that we would not require this level of insurance.

I just cannot understand why we would need this health and safety cover, since we act as an agency only, and introduce our sitters to the client. Surely the workplace in this instance is the clients house, and therefore not our responsibility.

It seems that there are so many restrictions placed on small business, and in some cases you question if it is worth having one!

I think aslong as you have stated in your Terms and Conditions for your clients that you are not responsible and they are responsible for this, and the client signs then you are ok. This is how we did it anyway.

 

[Pet Nanny]

This is so infuriating, since I spoke with a solicitor who assured me that as I was NOT an employer, I was not responsible for employers liability! Now I am told that I need health and safety insurance as well as.

As a small business, working with animals if we are forced to take up employers liability, and health and safety insurance, we could well go out of business. This is a really worrying situation!:|

 

[Ashley]

Don't worry the call was a trick, I personally feel that you need hardly anything and what you do need is very easy to implement. I have a PDF file I can let you read on when you are an employer or not PM me email if you would like it.

 

[Ashley]

BTW the way I would do it you would even make money from this

 

[LukeB]

I am told that I need health and safety insurance as well as.

My expertise in H&S only falls into the development/construction area.. so maybe a few variations in the information i provide...

hate to depress you further Pet nanny, but be warned .. the iceberg effect... for every £1 your insurance covers you can be sure that there are £10 that it doesn't cover... due to health and safety falling under civil and criminal law and you cant insure agaisnt criminal... also -you cant specifically get health and safety insurance...

You need to look at what is 'reasonalby practicable'.

If you want some free advice, PM me, one of my companies is a Consultancy that specialises in CDM and H&S... not in your industry but i have lots of contacts that will know for free.

 

[AlexisB]

Hi Pet Nanny

Sorry I've not posted for several months and have come to this thread late. As Health and Safety is my area of expertise I shall endeavour to calm and shed light on the situation.

First you status is very important. None of the consultancies I worked for in the past grasped the difference (nor indeed the HSE!!) though I am concerned that you are not certain of this. An employment agency introduces workers to hirers for whom they work for a fixed/permanent/short term contract. The contract is with the hirer and not the agency. An employment business, though commonly known as a 'temp agency' is another matter. It places employees with hirers and the contractual relationship is with the EB covered by H&S at work Act.

If an employment agency not employing anyone but self employed you have a duty of care to others affected by your activities ie those you place with hirers and the hirers themselves (if their dogs were ripped apart by a dog hating psycopath) and could be sued for compensation so I advise public liability insurances. Also agencies involved in placing workers should only supply workers to carry out tasks for which they are suitable and make reasonable efforts and enquiries (as opposed to the more onerous 'reasonably practicable') Failure to do this could leave the agency open to prosecution under legislation enforced by DTI in the event of a serious incident.

As a business you ought to be making reasonable enquiries about no, type and size of pets, habits, fleas, etc special requirements for muzzling ... and providing info on identity, experience, training of workers. This is what it would be considered reasonable for you to do. This 'risk assessment' can be verbal or written and I'd advise the latter for professionalism and to save time if something goes wrong.

Sorry for the ramble. I'm off to bed. Hope this helps. If not, ask.

Alexis

PS Fuzzy be careful you cannot pass on h&s responsibilities through contract. Many years ago I found employment businesses wrongly passing these across to their clients. The clients in turn had expected the employment businesses to have vetted workers for them. Both parties have responsibilities.

 

[Pet Nanny]

Yes, totally agree with above points.

I think any reputable company will get as much information as possible and place their sitters accordingly.

I am actually speaking with Business Link this morning. Apparently, they have a list of solicitors who can help in this matter, and give you 30 mins free of charge.

 

[mcjoyes]

In the event you still have some questions after speaking with Business Link, try the HSE web site and in particular use their search facility to download (for free) a booket called INDG259, Introduction to Health and Safety at Work. It's a brief summary and guidance booklet aimed at SMEs.

 

[Pet Nanny]

Thanks Mathew.

I think I have that problem solved now, but still working on the employers liability. It seems that each person I speak to has a different opinion!

 

[AlexisB]

Thanks Mathew.

I think I have that problem solved now, but still working on the employers liability. It seems that each person I speak to has a different opinion!

Hi Pet Nanny

With respect it's not people's 'opinions' you need to be listening to! You need the facts as they are applicable to your business. If you are an agency rather than an employment business and you do not employ anyone then you do not need employers liability insurance. It is there so that employees who are injured can be recompensed for any loss sustained. However, although it's not a legal requirement, I would suggest that you do need public liability in case damage or harm is sustained through your business activities to either the people you 'introduce' or the client/hirer and they turn to you for compensation. Speak to 2/3 insurance providers or a broker.

Alexis

 

[mcjoyes]

Have a go at this:

hse.gov.uk/pubns/hse40.pdf

Its the regulations surrounding Employers Liability. Sorry not more practical - I'm working out of a hotel at the moment. If your still struggling let me know.

 

[mcjoyes]

Hello Pet Nanny

I posted without reading Alexis' comments. See below for my "professional" advice (not opinion):

The below is taken from the above referenced HSE guidance (HSE40).

Whether or not you need employers' liability insurance for someone who works for you depends on the terms of your contract with them. This contract can be spoken, written or implied. It does not matter whether you usually call someone an employee or self-employed or what their tax status is.

Whether you choose to call your contract a contract of employment or a contract for services is largely irrelevant. What matters is the real nature of your relationship with the people who work for you and the degree of control you have over the work they do.

There are no hard and fast rules about who counts as your employee for the purposes of employers' liability insurance. The following may help give you some indication.

In general, you may need employers' liability insurance for someone who works for you if:

You deduct national insurance and income tax from the money you pay them
You have the right to control where and when they work and how they do it
You supply most materials and equipment
You have a right to any profit your workers make although you may choose to share this with them through commission, performance pay or shares in the company. Similarly, you will be responsible for any losses
You require that person to deliver the service and they cannot employ a substitute if they are unable to do the work
They are treated in the same way as other employees, for example, if they do the same work under the same conditions as someone you employ.

In general, you may not need employers' liability insurance for people who work with you if:

They do not work exclusively for you (for example, if they operate as an independent contractor)
They supply most of the equipment and materials they need to do the job
They are clearly in business for personal benefit
They can employ a substitute when they are unable to do the work themselves
You do not deduct income tax or national insurance. However, even if someone is self-employed for tax purposes they may be classed as an employee for other reasons and you may still need employers' liability insurance to cover them