Guard dog for premises?

[gmoto]

Not sure this is 'general business', but didn't see anywhere more appropriate.

Been offered a guard dog for my premises. The place across the road has one, as do other places around. Not a massive issue right now, but it can't hurt security wise. The previous owner of the business had this dog in there. It doesn't seen amazingly well trained generally and is a 10 month old (or so) Akita mix.

I've got a reasoanble (GSM) alarm system and just setting up CCTV, but that's probably not going to be nearly as good a deterrant as an aggressive sounding dog.

Has anyone got experiences keeping a guard dog? Likely general costs (food, etc), general less obvious worries (ie, well aware that I'd haev to make sure it didn't get at people and the like.)1
Always liked the idea of getting a dog, but not as an animal kept just for 'work' - while it doesn't feel fair, this dog at least would be getting a better life with me than where ever else it would end up, probably.
Would I still have a good chance of training the dog to obey basic commands at this age? How much effort is that likely to be?

 

[UCaN]

A ten month old dog can still be retrained.

However, training a dog of any age is likely to be considerable efort unless you have a good idea what you are doing.

Top tips would be consistency, consistencty and consistency. Whatever verbal commands or hand gestures you use keep them consistent - dont say lie down one day and down the next. Reward every time at first and then reduce rewards slowly.

Dogs do well when the training is started food reward, then a mix of food reward and praise reward. Keep it moving slowly until majority reward is by praise with occasional food treat.

As you are looking for a guard dog then make sure you reward barking - this is hit or miss unless the dog already has a tendancy to bark. Don't confuse the dog by teaching it not to bark because a customer is there (if you send mixed messages you can destroy all training very quickly)

Training any dog takes a good deal of time and energy, so make sure you are ready to take this on first - it can be difficult to retrain and rehome a guard dog. It would probably be a good idea to talk to any friends who have dogs.

 

[S-Marketing]

My advice would be to forget getting and training a guard dog, or a dog of a guarding breed unless you are a very experienced dog owner and handler.

 

[Consistency]

We have security dogs and love them very much. The bonding is very important and I cannot emphasise enough, if a dog has had any kind of security training, this needs to be handled with care.

There are a few questions here -

Has he dog had any professional training?
How well do you know the dog?
Have you had any training in keeping a dog of this nature?
Where do you intend to keep the dog?
Have you seen where you may be getting the dog from?
If he is to be kept in the building, will he be left unattended?

This is a lot of questions and it is for a reason, German Shepherds are absolutely beautiful animals and are loyal and they get very abused in the Security industry by people who know nothing about the breed or about bondnig, just that they look good for the part.

There is so much more to them than this.

 

[Consistency]

Not sure this is 'general business', but didn't see anywhere more appropriate.

Been offered a guard dog for my premises. The place across the road has one, as do other places around. Not a massive issue right now, but it can't hurt security wise. The previous owner of the business had this dog in there. It doesn't seen amazingly well trained generally and is a 10 month old (or so) Akita mix.

I've got a reasoanble (GSM) alarm system and just setting up CCTV, but that's probably not going to be nearly as good a deterrant as an aggressive sounding dog.

Has anyone got experiences keeping a guard dog? Likely general costs (food, etc), general less obvious worries (ie, well aware that I'd haev to make sure it didn't get at people and the like.)1
Always liked the idea of getting a dog, but not as an animal kept just for 'work' - while it doesn't feel fair, this dog at least would be getting a better life with me than where ever else it would end up, probably.
Would I still have a good chance of training the dog to obey basic commands at this age? How much effort is that likely to be?

I wrote the last post quickly to get something down but I have now read your post more thoroughly,

An Akita cross is not necessarily going to make a good guard dog. It will need t be trained properly for this and there are training shools that specialise in security do training. We can train but we first find out why someone wants this kind of dog and what the long term aim is.

An agressive sounding dog is not necessarily the best thing. A professional dog may be a lot quieter than people imagine. There are right times to bark and times not to.

Because we have our dogs with us all the time and they live with us, in the house, they are not left anywhere and so you may need licences if you are intending to leave them. I really hope you are not.

In regards to cost it all depends on different things, there are vets fees sometimes, if a dog is a working dog it is near impossible to get decent insurance as they are high risk, there is training costs, there is food costs and food storage costs (Ours are all raw fed), there is damage costs (even our well trained dogs do do bits and pieces! and it is better to factor that in), there is transport, if you are taking them anywhere I would say it is a must that they are caged and comfortable.

Dogs are beautiful animals and it is good that you are looking for advice. Pet training is very different to security training. I really do not think you are experienced at all to have a dog yet. That is brutal but there are many dog bites and many deaths through dog bites through bad handling and over-confidence.

I think you need more time to think.

 

[gmoto]

Cheers for the thoughts.

The woman I'm renting a room from has an Akita in the house (who I get on well with, though possibly because I'll give it meat occasionally while the owner is vegetarian ), so have discussed with her a bit.

Rehoming shouldn't be a big issue because it's spent most of it's life here anyway.
Some people that have come in have asked "the dog's not loose is he?" and similar - which while it may put a few people off, would also presumably put a decent few intruders off too!

The time does worry me because I've got a fair bit on as it is.

Stretchy: care to expand on that?


Has he dog had any professional training? - No.
How well do you know the dog? - met it a few times when first looking at the buisness.
Have you had any training in keeping a dog of this nature? - no.
Where do you intend to keep the dog? At the premises.
Have you seen where you may be getting the dog from? Yes - from the previous business owner, who kept it at the premises previously.
If he is to be kept in the building, will he be left unattended? Yes.

Note the dog is mostly Akita.
[Edit, cheers for the updated post - showing some 'over confidence', I myself a not the smallest of people and generally have been fine with big dogs, however I would worry more about times when I was away and was getting someone after to look after it.]

Looking the general answer is 'no', but happy to hear more opinions.

Do guard dogs normally get walked? Certainly most I've seen guarding premises, units etc usually aren't the sort you'd want to take down the park.
Even the Akita in our house, who seems pretty friendly and very well behaved around anyone she knows, isn't walked in the local park due to the way it reacts to other dogs.

 

[Consistency]

I read when I re-read your post that it was mostly Akita but the problem would still apply.

When you say premises, is this a place where you will be living or a shop or something, what kind of premises is this in regards to?

 

[gmoto]

It's a mostly indoor automotive business. Fairly large building as we'll be doing storage amongst other things (about 45m front to back). Smallish fenced/gated outside area.

I won't be living there (unless stuff gets really desperate... I do have a motorhome parked up in front which I used when I first moved to the area!)
For some time I will be there daily.

 

[Consistency]

Onto the subject of someone to look after it, you as the handler have the job to look after the dog all the time. Our dogs for example would not be left in trust with anyone other than me. They are in tune with my body and thinking and judgements and I know how to read them. That is what training is for.

As nice as they are and sometimes, rarely! but sometimes, people want to stroke them but they cannot and it is not long before they know they cannot. There are special measures to take when taking a dog to the vets and they cannot play like other dogs play. We cannot have the bouncy ball walks in the park as that is something we give up. They cannot switch, they will not be fed by anyone else. We would never play pass the buck with them. It is wrong for the dogs and wrong for the potential victims. Each dog is an individual and they are quick.

I think to keep a dog in there would be very very wrong and the dog would more than likely have no connection with you. I think what is better for you is a very good alarm system and drop in from time to time to see if your premises is ok.

We as a company do alarm activation, no this is not an advert you are probably miles from us anyway, we do random routine checks on properties as well and I think this may be better for you. I really do not think the dog or you is suitable for this.

Dogs are strong animals and they are killers. I fully support much of the regulaion that is brought in but unfortunately when handlers take on dogs and do not know what they are doing until it goes wrong, after giving one a try, there are ever more calls for further regulation.

There needs to be responsible ownership and in security absolutely responsible ownership and handling. From what I can gather it is not ideal at all and I mean no disrespect to you but I do not think you would be safe even yourself as the dog would be confused.

I really think get a good alarm.

 

[papverpoppies]

Went to a builders yard several months ago, one large GSD shut in an enclosure, living in its own mess, what a sad sight it was.

All the poor dog did was bark, heaven knows what the neighbours thought, as it was a residential area.

If the dog is going to be left alone then I would not recommend you getting one, any dog that spends hours on its own is a recipe for disaster.
Dogs need company, and they become pretty unstable very quickly if left alone.

Working dogs are a very intelligent, and they need to be using their brain, that is why so many have behavioural problems because they are left alone with no stimulation at all.

Also, what will you do, if you change your mind about keeping/wanting the dog after a time, you will not be able to re-home it, so it will mean taking and having the poor dog put to sleep (which is expensive).

A dog left to guard is NO deterrent on its own, if people want to break in they will simply throw the dog some meat with a sedative or poison in it.
The dog/s come into its own when with their handler/s and obeying their instructions; and that is not for the layman.

Get a good burglar alarm, security lighting, much more effective and a lot less hassle.

Also, it is cruel to keep a dog on its own, they are social pack animals, and love company.

Poppy xx

 

[gmoto]

I've got a good alarm setup now, it texts and calls me if it goes off (a bit over 20 sensors of various types at the moment) and should soon have CCTV setup, so hopefully can then check up to see if the Alarm has gone off for a good reason or not.
Live just under a mile away and at the moment, am there 7 days a week in the day time (hopefully not quite so frequently as I get settled and everything going well).

However, plenty of cases where I may not get that call for one reason or another - or be somewhere that I can't do much about watching a load of pikeys carrying all my stuff out.
But then, have also heard of dogs being poisened in extreme cases - however my thought was that it'd at least keep the rif-raf out - the most determined WILL have some stratergy that works for 'most all contingencies - just got to make sure mine are less appealing than other places!
Just from people that have come in, I've got the impression it definitely WOULD be a good deterrant having a dog there, probably a fair bit better than a good electronic security setup.

If it wasn't a dog that was already acustomed to life there and probably not going to get any better life in reality, I wouldn't have really considered it at all. I'm not sure where it will end up now, but I very much doubt it will be a great life for it and can be pretty sure it'll end up being worse than anything I would offer.

 

[papverpoppies]

I've got a good alarm setup now, it texts and calls me if it goes off (a bit over 20 sensors of various types at the moment) and should soon have CCTV setup, so hopefully can then check up to see if the Alarm has gone off for a good reason or not.
Live just under a mile away and at the moment, am there 7 days a week in the day time (hopefully not quite so frequently as I get settled and everything going well).

However, plenty of cases where I may not get that call for one reason or another - or be somewhere that I can't do much about watching a load of pikeys carrying all my stuff out.
But then, have also heard of dogs being poisened in extreme cases - however my thought was that it'd at least keep the rif-raf out - the most determined WILL have some stratergy that works for 'most all contingencies - just got to make sure mine are less appealing than other places!

If it wasn't a dog that was already acustomed to life there and probably not going to get any better life in reality, I wouldn't have really considered it at all.

So how will you stop the dog setting of the sensors/alarm?

Being a dog lover, I find it very sad (no reflection on you) that this is the best life this dog has/can expect.

Poppy xx

 

[Consistency]

Also, what will you do, if you change your mind about keeping/wanting the dog after a time, you will not be able to re-home it, so it will mean taking and having the poor dog put to sleep (which is expensive).

A dog left to guard is NO deterrent on its own, if people want to break in they will simply throw the dog some meat with a sedative or poison in it.
The dog come into its own when it is with its handler and obeying their instructions; and that is not for the layman.

Get a good burglar alarm, security lighting, much more effective and a lot less hassle.

Also, it is cruel to keep a dog on its own, they are social pack animals, and love company.

Poppy xx

Unfortunately Poppy as you quite rightly say it is very difficult to re-home a dog once it has been trained and there are many sad stories of when people have a go at handling and then change their minds. They go through a lot of trauma.

It is a good point you make as well about an untrained dog who is left on builders yards etc are not as brilliant a deterrent as people think because they can be tempted with food. Dogs such as ours will not give into that temptation as they are trained even in how they eat their food and how they accept it. They are trained not to accept food off a stranger and will not eat anything unless we have given it to them.

There was one dog we have and he is good now but it has took a long long time, patience and care, he was trained a bit as a security dog as a puppy, owner changed his mind, went to be a pet and then security and this went on apparantly through 9 different owners. The dog is beautiful and has had many behavioural problems that are mostly overcome.

Of course his history is only something the former "owner" told us, we have no real idea but he has certainly been round the block and his home his with us now. This is one of the side effects of people who have a go at this. It is not like an exercise bike where you can start with good intentions and get the shorts and whatever and then give up after and put it upstairs, these are dogs with minds and with teeth.

It is good that the OP has asked questions and hopefully will think more, I will answer any questions I can but not on trainning methods unless it is pet training. I think the OP is being quite responsible and not jumping in feet first.

 

[papverpoppies]

Yes, it is refreshing to find someone asking all the right questions.

I cannot comment on 'training' only on the aspect of owning dogs, and the cost - which can be horrendous

Sadly, just too many dogs being bred - and not enough good homes.

Saw a beautiful Akita being walked around a supermarket car park; every time anyone went passed the dog to get to their car, the owner freaked out and shouted for them to keep their distance.

Could not understand why she walking the dog there, and if the dog had, of suddenly lunged, she was of NO stature to hold it back. It was half term as well, so lots of kids about!

Poppy xx

 

[Consistency]

Yes, it is refreshing to find someone asking all the right questions.

I cannot comment on 'training' only on the aspect of owning dogs, and the cost - which can be horrendous

Sadly, just too many dogs being bred - and not enough good homes.

Saw a beautiful Akita being walked around a supermarket car park; every time anyone went passed the dog to get to their car, the owner freaked out and shouted for them to keep their distance.

Could not understand why she walking the dog there, and if the dog had, of suddenly lunged, she was of NO stature to hold it back. It was half term as well, so lots of kids about!

Poppy xx

Sounds to me like the owner was using the dog to show off.

 

[gmoto]

I'm definitely one to do my research and try and do 'right' by living things I may form an attachment for (the amount of meat I eat means I'd be hypocritical to suggest it's more than that.) Thus one of the reasons I haven't had kids and probably won't - I WOULD expect to dedicate a good proportion of my life to raising them properly.

And yes, definitely sad regarding the dog in question - I felt sorry for it being left alone before I moved in (they weren't that active with the business and the main person there had gone away, so it was alone a hell of a lot of the time.
But not much different to the dogs in the unit across the way I suspect.

Oh and while I haven't got them at the moment, for the alarm system I have got you can also get "pet friendly" sensors which won't activate for cats or dogs. Did wonder if that'd actually work for a decently big sized dog, but that's what is claimed -obviously only going to be an issue for the pir ones on the main floor area - door, vibration and similar sensors as well as ones in other areas would be fine.

 

[Senington]

I've never heard of a company having a guard dog anywhere near where I live! I would have thought it is a bit unethical?

 

[gmoto]

Current business is a bit of a change from previous job being employed as a software quality assurance manager .
Pretty common for 'yards' in various trades to have dogs left in over night for security.

As I say, impression I've got is it actually is a pretty good deterrent for a decent proportion of people that might be considering it.

Not massively 'ethecial', but then doubt most running such places would have even considered that - never mind if we look at many parts of our lives, plenty of things we support are pretty unethical!

 

[Consistency]

And yes, definitely sad regarding the dog in question - I felt sorry for it being left alone before I moved in (they weren't that active with the business and the main person there had gone away, so it was alone a hell of a lot of the time.
But not much different to the dogs in the unit across the way I suspect.

I eat meat, but am very devoted to the dogs. They would give their life in a heartbeat to save mine. Such loyalty deserves nothing less than devotion.

I would never look at bad owners and think that if you do it a bit better, at least it is not as bad as that.

This attitude is the same as saying "Well I know I leave my child on his own all night, every night but it is better than what they did to baby Peter". A bad example but a good one at the same time. I trust you will look after it better than a lot of other people would but I also think in my blunt honesty that you would not look after it better than a lot of other people would.

A dog deserves better than this. They are more than a living alarm system. If you care about the dog, would you consider loving him at home and taking him to work with you?

 

[Consistency]

Totally unrelated to this thread, but I scrolled down could have sworn I saw a PINK MR MESSY very quickly went back down and he has gone, what is all that about? Did I see a MR MESSY? Have you seen MR MESSY?

 

[eventdomain]

Doberman - these are so smart! They are problem-solvers and work out how to do stuff!. I know someone who own one and they say you need to be dominant over the dog or it becomes 'master'. But they are very much 'people dogs' and do need training, but easily trainable.

A friend once took his Doberman 'walkies' - the dog fell into an freezing lake, so owner jumps in to save it, but gets in trouble himself. So the doberman jumps back in and saves them both. The dogs name was Zooly, and it made the local press many years ago. These dogs are super smart...

Their super smart and have incredible stamina for a medium sized dog.

They are fearless and will not back down from a fight situation - with anyone or thing!

Cost £400 or upwards (they are a pedigree dog) and price depends on breeding.

 

[Consistency]

Doberman - these are so smart! They are problem-solvers and work out how to do stuff!. I know someone who own one and they say you need to be dominant over the dog or it becomes 'master'. But they are very much 'people dogs' and do need training, but easily trainable.

A friend once took his Doberman 'walkies' - the dog fell into an freezing lake, so owner jumps in to save it, but gets in trouble himself. So the doberman jumps back in and saves them both. The dogs name was Zooly, and it made the local press many years ago. These dogs are super smart...

Their super smart and have incredible stamina for a medium sized dog.

They are fearless and will not back down from a fight situation - with anyone or thing!

Cost £400 or upwards (they are a pedigree dog) and price depends on breeding.

A friend of ours has got Doberman puppies that were docked as puppies. Come from a very loving breeder. PM me if you want one. All potential owners are vetted.

 

[eventdomain]

A friend of ours has got Doberman puppies that were docked as puppies. Come from a very loving breeder. PM me if you want one. All potential owners are vetted.

Their great, I'd love one, but house owner wouldnt stand for it unfortunately.

Cute doggie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuqxeIkUGHQ&feature=channel

 

[Consistency]

From what I can gather about the law in regards to Guard Dog Act -

The dog if left alone, i.e. not under the control of the handler, must be secured by a length of chain staked to the ground or affixed to something that will not move.

A dog is not permitted to roam a business premise untethered. To allow it to do so would be in contravention of the Guard Dog Act 1975.

Signage to say that Guard Dogs are in use are also required at all access and egress points to where the Guard dog is used.

I do not think the law goes far enough, Gypsies get away with it but then they get away with everything and that is a different argument. Rogue scrapyard merchants get away with it or seem to for a long time, you and the Dogs are better then this.

 

[papverpoppies]

From what I can gather about the law in regards to Guard Dog Act -

The dog if left alone, i.e. not under the control of the handler, must be secured by a length of chain staked to the ground or affixed to something that will not move.

A dog is not permitted to roam a business premise untethered. To allow it to do so would be in contravention of the Guard Dog Act 1975.

Signage to say that Guard Dogs are in use are also required at all access and egress points to where the Guard dog is used.

I do not think the law goes far enough, Gypsies get away with it but then they get away with everything and that is a different argument. Rogue scrapyard merchants get away with it or seem to for a long time, you and the Dogs are better then this.

Which defeats the object of having the dog - and tethering is so cruel.

I bet if someone broke into a yard/business, and the guard dog attacked, the owner would be sued to the hilt. Never mind, they were doing wrong and out to pinch your stuff.......

Poppy xx

 

[Mattlock]

I suggest going on closeprotectionworld.co.uk ,there are some experts there on this subject

 

Their great, I'd love one, but house owner wouldnt stand for it unfortunately.

Cute doggie:

Cute doggie one of the most dangerous dogs around ,part of the yob culture.

quote:

"Although recent studies do not rank Doberman Pinschers as the most aggressive breed, their size, strength and aggression towards strangers makes them potentially dangerous. Studies of dog bites and dog bite fatalities have shown that the danger of attack by Dobermans is relatively high, and that children are five times as likely to be bitten by a Doberman as a Labrador Retriever."

If you keep a dog for security ,you will condem it to a pretty miserable life.

If it should happen to injure anyone including would be thieves you will be in big trouble.

http://www.info4security.com/story.asp?storycode=1014539

Earl

 

[gmoto]

This attitude is the same as saying "Well I know I leave my child on his own all night, every night but it is better than what they did to baby Peter". A bad example but a good one at the same time. I trust you will look after it better than a lot of other people would but I also think in my blunt honesty that you would not look after it better than a lot of other people would.

Not quite, so yes a bad example. I'd say it's like adopting a child you know will have absolutely no future otherwise (ie like the celebrity fashion is these days with kids from third world countries), even though you're not going to be able to spend the time with the kid you should.

The dog does 'deserve' better no doubt. But unfortunately I can't justify offering it a home anywhere else myself - the business premises is the only thing I can be sure will be pretty stable in the future. It would also get rid of a lot of the justification for having the dog in the first place.

It would offer some small benefit in that people would see the dog around, if they were visiting in the day time, so may not return. My landlady actually mentioned she'd be happy for me to take her Akita down there in the day time some times, which could serve that function (and be a bit of fun/extra exercice for the dog).

I should point out I have been convinced enough that it's not going to be worth my hassle (ironically, as I say, this is quite likely to leave the dog to a much worse life.) HOWEVER, on discussing with my landlady and saying I wasn't going to do it, she felt sorry enough for the dog to suggest that she would at least have a look at it and consider taking it in. So maybe a happy ending after all!

Finally, yes I do think a lot of people/society/the world is hypocritical - for British people anthropomorphising and caring for dogs considerably more than other animals - but I'm not saying I stand seperate from this hypocracy. Nature and life is a cruel thing, however we tell ourselves otherwise by closing our eyes.

 

[gmoto]

Oh and yes, I could swear I've seen that 'Mr Messy' too!
Think it's maybe used as a 'place holder' while avatars load or something?

Just spent a couple of minutes opening threads trying to provoke it, then another couple looking through some of my browser cache.
Sure I've seen it around, but not 100% when/where.

 

[Consistency]

Cute doggie one of the most dangerous dogs around ,part of the yob culture.

quote:

"Although recent studies do not rank Doberman Pinschers as the most aggressive breed, their size, strength and aggression towards strangers makes them potentially dangerous. Studies of dog bites and dog bite fatalities have shown that the danger of attack by Dobermans is relatively high, and that children are five times as likely to be bitten by a Doberman as a Labrador Retriever."

If you keep a dog for security ,you will condem it to a pretty miserable life.

If it should happen to injure anyone including would be thieves you will be in big trouble.

http://www.info4security.com/story.asp?storycode=1014539

Earl

I really think you are not knowing your onions there Sirearl, get those sandals off that are still rubbing you after Christmas bless ya!

In honesty, there are a lot of abuse cases with security dogs, they are seen by many as a commodity, a work thing, a part of the throw away society where if it goes wrong and it is too expensive to repair replace it. I have seen a fair amount of this and heard a lot of attitude. We have had people come to us and want to be dog handlers but for all the wrong reasons.

I do believe that our dogs are very happy. They are loved, they are all bonded, do much of what they want to and their tellings off are when necessary and rare when they are at home. When they are in work mode they switch on and they go to work and when they come home they switch off. They are always on alert but they relax.

It is very easy to think of dogs in security as being not looked after and I can fully understand that, many of them are not.

There are SIA licences and there are changes that are going on there, but I do believe that licensing is needed for dog handlers in security. It needs to be done properly and fairly because there are some marvellous dog handlers out there who love their dogs and are responsible.

Regulation in any industry often penalises the good ones and drives decent ones to dispair. We then see trade associations etc given power and tell businesses what to do when they have no idea of the business they are supposedly trying to regulate. This is my fear with the Dog Handling. While I agree with licencing, there are those who due to dog bites, avoidable deaths and those "cash in hand, use their mates dog to look hard types", there are those who want to see no security dogs used on private land. This is so wrong on those that look after them.

I can only stress that there are some wonderful dog handlers, there are some who really should not have a dog near them let alone work with them.

Perhaps my voice is quite rare, there are many who would think ours as a bit spoilt as they are kept indoors, I could not have them left outside in harsh winters and rain. I want them in, always to know they are warm and safe. They do not belong in Kennels or cages outside. I like to know where they are.

They are my friends.

 

I really think you are not knowing your onions there Sirearl, get those sandals off that are still rubbing you after Christmas bless ya!

Owe me knows me onions alright.

Fact is you may be the best dog person in the world but the facts would suggest you are in the minority as far as dangerous dogs are concerned.


Over 100 people are hospitalised every week because of dog attacks, new figures have revealed.
The Conservatives established that the total number of cases of people being sent to hospital because of dog attacks rose from 5,221 in 2009, a significant increase from the 3,079 cases reported in 1997/98.
Convictions have increased apace, with the total number of convictions for allowing out-of-control dogs to injure other people rising from 239 in 1998 to 481 in 2009.


Earl

 

[papverpoppies]

I really think you are not knowing your onions there Sirearl, get those sandals off that are still rubbing you after Christmas bless ya!

In honesty, there are a lot of abuse cases with security dogs, they are seen by many as a commodity, a work thing, a part of the throw away society where if it goes wrong and it is too expensive to repair replace it. I have seen a fair amount of this and heard a lot of attitude. We have had people come to us and want to be dog handlers but for all the wrong reasons.

I do believe that our dogs are very happy. They are loved, they are all bonded, do much of what they want to and their tellings off are when necessary and rare when they are at home. When they are in work mode they switch on and they go to work and when they come home they switch off. They are always on alert but they relax.

It is very easy to think of dogs in security as being not looked after and I can fully understand that, many of them are not.

There are SIA licences and there are changes that are going on there, but I do believe that licensing is needed for dog handlers in security. It needs to be done properly and fairly because there are some marvellous dog handlers out there who love their dogs and are responsible.

Regulation in any industry often penalises the good ones and drives decent ones to dispair. We then see trade associations etc given power and tell businesses what to do when they have no idea of the business they are supposedly trying to regulate. This is my fear with the Dog Handling. While I agree with licencing, there are those who due to dog bites, avoidable deaths and those "cash in hand, use their mates dog to look hard types", there are those who want to see no security dogs used on private land. This is so wrong on those that look after them.

I can only stress that there are some wonderful dog handlers, there are some who really should not have a dog near them let alone work with them.

Perhaps my voice is quite rare, there are many who would think ours as a bit spoilt as they are kept indoors, I could not have them left outside in harsh winters and rain. I want them in, always to know they are warm and safe. They do not belong in Kennels or cages outside. I like to know where they are.

They are my friends.

My dogs are not guard dogs, they could lick you to death.

I remember a vet telling me once, that he had received far worse bites of small nippy little breeds, then ever he had from your big macho breeds.

He said he always asked the larger breed owners 'if the dog was likely to bite' and if yes, or unsure he muzzled them.

When he asked the owners of the smaller toy breeds (more so the older ladies), does Fifi bite, they all reply NO..she is a darling. To which the Fifi's then stick their teeth in for dear life.

The truth is, that no dog is 100% safe, wrong home, wrong treatment, any dog could turn if provoked/hurt and trying to defend itself.

I will never understand people who let small children and dogs play together 99% of the time all could be bliss - but that 1% is enough to kill a child if it all goes wrong.

Poppy xx

 

[Consistency]

SirEarl, I will agree with you entirely where you say that you could get into a lot of trouble if a dog bites. They can always attempt to bring a claim. No case is cut and dry. The police have been sued and the compensation level depends on how well their dogs are trained.

We have been in situations where it seems absolutely cut and dry that the dog should bite and one instance where the junkie out of his face in whatever and was very violent, well deserved it but we will do anything not to let the dog bite. Many warnings etc. The last thing we want is to have the dog have to be put down.

We may well have escaped the suing but it is not worth the risk. Us not letting him bite disappointed a few onlookers but our dogs are worth more than that. He was detained lawfully and later arrested and we all lived another day. Handlers need to be responsible.

If the OP is going to get into this or anyone else then please PM me and I can direct you to training schools that specialise in accordance to where you are.

These dogs are teeth on a leash. Be careful.

 

I will never understand people who let small children and dogs play together 99% of the time all could be bliss - but that 1% is enough to kill a child if it all goes wrong.

Poppy xx

Its not just little children tha\t are at risk.

My sisters little pouch,14st with teeth on the front.

 

[Consistency]

What a nice dog.

You are right in that it is not just little children at risk, it is cats and dogs, elderly, adults, anyone can be at risk including their owners.

There should be a lot more care with any dog. The little dogs do a fair amount of damage but because the bites are small, they just get bandaged up or cleaned up and people get on with it. It is the level and strength of the bite that kills.

People have no aftercare when they get a pet dog. There are many who have no idea how to stop children from coming too close without sounding nasty as they themselves are nervous and this in turn makes the dog up for it. They are not bonded properly with the dog and it is so so sad. When we look at how dogs are treated in China and such for dog meat it is heartbreaking but people here treat them just as much as a commodity sometimes. This sounds a far fetched statement but I think it is true. It may not be as physically cruel but it is mentally as cruel and it does reate victims.

If a dog has had periods of "playing guard dog" and whether not officially trained or not, it is not ideal for someone who "thinks they know dogs" to have a go at getting what has gone in back out. The results are tragic. A dog can revert back at any time.

There are people with ours when we are out and ours are barking will insist when they are in their cages, "can we have a look, he will be alright with me, I know dogs, had them all my life" etc. We hear this all the time and they never like it when we have to say "You don't know ours, they are not pets". They get very offended and then act as if we are arrogant. When the dogs bark, they then imply we should control our dogs!!!

They are individuals and anyone elses dog is individual. There needs to be more education about dogs, they can turn in an instant, heat, illness, tiredness etc.

Many children get bit because what a child deems as play as they reach and pat, a dog can deem that as a threat. If a parent is holding a toddler who then pats the mother or father, the dog may lunge and this can be a killer.

This does not apply to all dogs, particularly if they are the in the same environment since being a puppy at 8 weeks old. With rights to have a dog in the first place, comes responsibilities. It is the owners who need to be so much more responsible.

 

[deniser]

Cute doggie one of the most dangerous dogs around ,part of the yob culture.

quote:

"Although recent studies do not rank Doberman Pinschers as the most aggressive breed, their size, strength and aggression towards strangers makes them potentially dangerous. Studies of dog bites and dog bite fatalities have shown that the danger of attack by Dobermans is relatively high, and that children are five times as likely to be bitten by a Doberman as a Labrador Retriever."

If you keep a dog for security ,you will condem it to a pretty miserable life.

If it should happen to injure anyone including would be thieves you will be in big trouble.

http://www.info4security.com/story.asp?storycode=1014539

Earl

We had a Doberman guard dog at our school! He did live in the caretaker's house though.

 

We had a Doberman guard dog at our school! He did live in the caretaker's house though.

But was the caretaker still alive.?

Earl

 

[wevet]

In the stupid days in which we live, if a burglar breaks in and is attacked and injured by your dog chances are you will find yourself getting sued.

 

[deniser]

But was the caretaker still alive.?

Earl

As he was young and good looking, I think the girls were more dangerous to him than the dog!

 

[vvaannmmaann]

The Law.
http://www.inbrief.co.uk/animal-law/guard-dogs-and-the-law.htm