GOODBYE EBAY, now how do I ditch PAYPAL?

[beasty]

Ebay are done, never going to use them again
Now PAYPAL is part of EBAY and I want to go find a viable alternative

So what options do we have?

 

[faradaykeynes]

Let me guess an unfair charge back case? Ebay and paypal are sister companies. If in trouble with one its automatically with other too.

Have your own website, get your own merchant account to process payments, card save is good, they use streamline for payment gateway. If you own the stock then you can feed products data to Google product, free to use in UK and really beings nice business. I use to feed about 30k products at one stage

 

[beasty]

Ebay are hopeless there is no protection for sellers, I agreed to send 160 to someone today we had 380 in paypal so sent it, the REFUND was held pending review, the ebay buyers email is bouncing and has been since the transaction, he never makes contact via ebay so I was left getting emails saying refund me, I replied, found bounced emails, replied through ebay and in the meantime he said charge back with card company

I went to refund from our existing cleared balance and the final straw is that PAYPAL are now holding this refund payment, I called to find out wtf they are playing at and it is just a process basically, i.e. the SERVICE does not actually exist they are not there to actually help!

so the guy is still saying where is my money, sick of it and the crappy service, btw ebays online customer service is in the Philippines and they are robots, I asked and they told me, just not good enough, I would never use a bank with an offshore call centre and I am delighted to have binned ebay, next I want to leave PAYPAL behind and never look back.

Spent 1 hour chatting to ebay and at the stroke of midnight was cut off (This is their closing time) so next day had to do it again, I will not deal with this company ever again, the people who are supposed to assist do not appreciate that WE THE SELLERS PAY for this service, the buyer does not

They are one and the same company to me and I cannot wait to escape.


Thanks for suggestion, I will have a look

 

[faradaykeynes]

I can feel what you are going through, been there heart breaking. Its not end of world. you can sell on other platforms like Amazon, Shopmania etc Have you own website. What sort of products do you sell?

 

[beasty]

Ebay sales are not really worth much and so its not really a big deal, I am just looking to fully extract us from them which means Paypal can do one also

Sell various things, Sports nutrition stuff, but these deals are bank transfer and 5 figure transactions and not in the UK.

Golf stuff, we have a new site at www.golfstore24.co.uk which will not be having Paypal on it and sell a fair few sticks via www.krankgolfuk.com which will be having Paypal removed.

I am not in the least worried about exiting Ebay, the time spent v the return does not make economic sense and tbh I have resented more and more how much we pay them for such a half assed service, if buyers are leaving wrong feedback (We had 3 cases where the item was not as described) which is odd as the listings are always taken from the manufacturers sites (Who supply us directly)

 

[faradaykeynes]

Nice websites, good idea to show mode of payments on site itself.
Google checkout was great, much secure then paypal, they pulled out of market unfortunately and now only operate from buyers point of view.

Dont use other providers e.g nochex , they are same as paypal, equally bad, i herd they are extension of paypal not sure about it but really bad.

Get yourself a decent payment gateway system and try kick paypal/ebay out of your mind for good, sooner the better

 

[japancool]

Do you only use Paypal on your existing site(s)?

Given the value of the items you sell, a merchant account + gateway would seem to be a lot more beneficial to you. You have plenty of choices but it pays to shop around for merchant rates, and you don't have to get your merchant account from the same place as the gateway.

You should check if your e-commerce software is compatible with whichever gateway you choose though, or that it has a plugin for it..

 

[faradaykeynes]

Lots of plug-ins for all major payment processors for Wordpress and Magento

 

[japancool]

Lots of plug-ins for all major payment processors for Wordpress and Magento

Are they what his sites are built on? If so, great, but he should still check that the plugin exists for his chosen solution, otherwise it could be a costly mistake.

 

[beasty]

One site is Magneto, www.golfstore24.co.uk I have in total around 15 other sites all using paypal
I am upgrading across the board with the golf store being first, I guess it will take a good year to get everything to my liking

Lots of handy info, thanks

 

[faradaykeynes]

15 other sites? are they all selling similar products and serving different countries? I hope, not competing with each other in same market place?

 

[japancool]

If all the stores are selling different things and are different businesses, you might need a different merchant account for each one, because the risk profile (and therefore the rates on offer) will be different depending on the market.

I got mine through cardswitcher.co.uk, used them to get a quote from various different providers. Things to watch out for are setup fees, termination fees, contract lengths and settlement periods (the time it takes the MA provider to pay the money into your bank account).

Remember though that a buyer can still dispute a transaction through their card provider, but usually the standards of proof required are much higher than Paypal's.

 

[faradaykeynes]

Service wise paypal is no way near these professional card processing systems. If you are selling similar products on different site under one company then you would use one gateway with multi sites, that wont be an issue , just need prior consent from gateway provider

 

[beasty]

If all the stores are selling different things and are different businesses, you might need a different merchant account for each one, because the risk profile (and therefore the rates on offer) will be different depending on the market.

I got mine through cardswitcher.co.uk, used them to get a quote from various different providers. Things to watch out for are setup fees, termination fees, contract lengths and settlement periods (the time it takes the MA provider to pay the money into your bank account).

Remember though that a buyer can still dispute a transaction through their card provider, but usually the standards of proof required are much higher than Paypal's.

Yup I get the rates might vary, there a few companies

It is not the disputes, really I am always happy to say, here is your money, have something free and move on, it is the TIME taken with their processes that drives me round the bend. Time is important I have a call with a guy on Monday and I am acutely aware of the value of his time as he is a ceo of public company in the USA and so his salary is public info 4 million a year, so I am not wanting to take 1 hour of his time as that is 2000dollars worth.. so I will be to the point efficient and so on, I consider this.

EBAY and PAYPAL do not give a monkeys about MY time, no problem we wil lfix this, yes but fixing a 50 quid transaction in 1 hour is hardly helping me it is costing me..

ARGH getting annoyed with these twats just thinking about this again!

I know someone in the USA who has started an ebay style site, I wish someone could come and kick Ebay and therefore paypal too, I am sure it will happen at some stage, you can only piss of so many customers before it bites you in the ass and the next person to set up has a bunch of willing people just because they are not the original.

Anyway. thanks a bunch for the info.. I look forward to removing paypal across the board.

 

[faradaykeynes]

There are alternative site which people use
http://uk.ebid.net/
http://www.cqout.com/
more listed here http://www.ebay-alternatives.co.uk/

 

[leon.lee.cardstream]

There are many options to obtain a merchant account, not just from your high street banks. There are many merchant account services that help set one up for you. Then you would need a payment gateway to process the payments on your e-Commerce website. Again, plenty of choices and you don't need to get a payment gateway with your merchant account provider.

Cardstream are able to provide a payment gateway at very competitive prices and can also help you obtain the best rate for you on your merchant account.

Best regards,
Leon

Cardstream Ltd
0800 0099 575

 

[antropy]

OpenCart supports these and many others:
http://www.opencart.com/index.php?route=feature/feature&path=8

CardSave are good too.

What about selling on Amazon?

 

[beasty]

Thanks for posting more options, I have a nice list building up

Amazon
Alternatives to ebay

Not really the way I will go, it may generate sales but I prefer the control and do not want to even look at another huge organisation getting involved in my day if I can avoid it

We will see in the future, I am aware these things exist just not in the mood to do it right now, probably this may change in 6 months

 

[antropy]

I know it must be incredibly frustrating, but probably the best thing to do is selling your own website, and Amazon, and (yes) eBay. Even though they are pretty unfair on sellers, there's still money to be made and you may need to view these sorts of problems as just part of the cost.

You'll probably find that by having all 3 channels you'll sell more on each than if you only had one. Plus you don't have a single point of failure that way.

I'm aware this may be hard advice to swallow at the moment, apologies for that.

 

[beasty]

INCOME V TIME does not stack up .. that is the most important calculation

Also i do not want certain products being listed alongside discounted stuff and or compared side by side with rivals, appreciate the input but for now there is little incentive to go the way you suggest really it is very complex the set up and i have no need to rely on outside agencies to make sales so i boils down to INCOME V TIME and if that does not stack up then it does not get done.

 

[antropy]

INCOME V TIME does not stack up .. that is the most important calculation.

Yep indeed, I agree it is. And it may not stack up for your particular product niche.

However, many big eBay sellers including some of our clients, do make a lot of money for their efforts on eBay.

 

[OptimaPaymentsUK]

Hi Beasty

Plenty of providers in the market what you will need to progress to a professional solution is the following. Although as mentioned in the thread there are solutions designed to benefit lower volumes, Stripe , Adyen ect

Payment Gateway (£15-20 PER MONTH)
(SagePay, Ogone, Realex ect)

Merchant Account (RATES NEGOTIABLE ON VOLUME)
(Worldpay, First Data, Elavon,Cardnet,Globalpayments ect)

We have a deal in place with a reputable merchant bank for merchants if your interested to compare quotes

Good Luck
Dan

 

[a4labels]

I'm all for ditching ebay. Look at your fees and invest that promoting your own website.

However, Paypal is going places. Our percentage of sales (sadly) has increased markedly over the past year through Paypal. Punters simply like it and to take it away will be like removing your nose.

I say 'sadly' as Paypal sales cost us nearly 1% more than taking cards direct.

Sometimes it just makes sense to make friends with the playground bullies.......

 

[japancool]

I'm glad to say that Paypal payments now only account for about a third of our transactions - not for any other reason than the fees involved. I've never had any other problems with Paypal.

I don't sell on ebay, at least not with japancool. I sell privately, and it's useful to do some market research but the fees are ruinous if you want to compete with the cheapo Asian shippers.

 

[Nochexman]

Dont use other providers e.g nochex , they are same as paypal, equally bad, i herd they are extension of paypal not sure about it but really bad.

Hello faradaykeynes. You have never explained what we at Nochex did to upset you so much! I think we must have turned you down for an account and that probably upset you I am guessing?

Anyway, for the avoidance of doubt Nochex is not an extension of PayPal; we provide merchant accounts + payment processing + payment gateway in one handy package to honest retailers, but not disreputable accountants (just pulling your leg!).

Have a great weekend, Peter

 

[faradaykeynes]

I did open an account with Nochex as honest retailer well before I started accountancy firm, did few transactions as well but then without any notice and reason Nochex decided to terminate service.

I was very hard to get hold of account manager in first place for integration, thanks to my IT skills and help on few forums manage to find ways around but that was one big waste of time.

We had debate on this before in another thread. Nochex is still in my bad books unfortunately

Have a great weekend

 

[Nochexman]

I did open an account with Nochex as honest retailer well before I started accountancy firm, did few transactions as well but then without any notice and reason Nochex decided to terminate service.

But this is the bit I don't understand. We don't usually terminate service unless we think you are doing something untoward! Send me your log in email privately, so I can see what happened!

 

[faradaykeynes]

it was long time ago and there were funds in account which were frozen for 6 months without any charge back case. Anyhow its history now, I have moved on and not interested in discussing it any further on any forum or thread.
Good Bye

 

[Nochexman]

Anyhow its history now, I have moved on and not interested in discussing it any further on any forum or thread.

But you have not moved on have you, you brought it up here last Saturday, and you seem incredibly willing to discuss it here until I ask you to explain yourself, so it clearly rankles deeply.

I am giving you the opportunity to move on, so come on, fess up, and you can move on with your life!

 

[10032012]

But you have not moved on have you, you brought it up here last Saturday, and you seem incredibly willing to discuss it here until I ask you to explain yourself, so it clearly rankles deeply.

I am giving you the opportunity to move on, so come on, fess up, and you can move on with your life!

Leave it. Move on!

You are coming over desperate for custom, not reflecting well on the company...

 

[japancool]

Leave it. Move on!

You are coming over desperate for custom, not reflecting well on the company...

I'd like to hear both sides of the story though, mainly because I'm nosey.

 

[ClickWebStudio]

I recommend Stripe as an alternative to PayPal. More to the point, I recommend Stripe before Paypal.

They have the same rates and fees, and operate in the same way (no need for any merchant account) except Stripe offers you so much more flexibility, such as 'true' on-site payments (better than PayPal's icky integration, and it's free to use unlike paypal too), recurring payments direct to a credit / debit card without the user having to sign up for anything, a beautiful development API, and a lovely control panel ("Dashboard") where you can do just about anything - including manually editing subscriptions, updating CC information, etc.

This also means that you can accept CC information over the phone, and as long as you enter it directly into the dashboard and dont enter it anywhere else or save it, the only obligations you have as far as PCI compliance goes, is a secure private internet connection (wired ethernet is preferred but high level encrypted wifi is ok - WPA/PSK is considered secure enough I believe). Oh and if you're using a voip phone instead of a true landline phone, you'll need that voip connection to be strongly encrypted too.

Needless to say, I have been very impressed by Stripe!

 

[HankMcSpank]

+1 for stripe.

Re Ebay ...yes normally dreadful, but as much as it's fashionable to diss them...they've provided me with a business. In short if it wasn't for Ebay, I'd be up the creek. I lost my job of 20yrs,....nobody else would employ me (wrong age for the industry I was in!) so I started up on Ebay, sold a few things, sourced further/different products...sold more things....this proved the products I was sourcing were viable, so started selling on Amazon...slow at first but gaining traction (to the point where it has taken over Ebay is performance)....still have some way to go, but Ebay have at least stopped the train coming off the track in my personal life.

Yes, their fees are horrific, their seller support is poor ...but my oh my, they deliver the customers to your door....not sure what level of seller you were, but once you move onto a certain level you really start getting some exposure via google & etc.

So yes, it's easy to hate them, but the flip side is ...if you've got the right product....ignore the Ebay marketplace at your peril.

 

[faradaykeynes]

I recommend Stripe as an alternative to PayPal. More to the point, I recommend Stripe before Paypal.

They have the same rates and fees, and operate in the same way (no need for any merchant account) except Stripe offers you so much more flexibility, such as 'true' on-site payments (better than PayPal's icky integration, and it's free to use unlike paypal too), recurring payments direct to a credit / debit card without the user having to sign up for anything, a beautiful development API, and a lovely control panel ("Dashboard") where you can do just about anything - including manually editing subscriptions, updating CC information, etc.

This also means that you can accept CC information over the phone, and as long as you enter it directly into the dashboard and dont enter it anywhere else or save it, the only obligations you have as far as PCI compliance goes, is a secure private internet connection (wired ethernet is preferred but high level encrypted wifi is ok - WPA/PSK is considered secure enough I believe). Oh and if you're using a voip phone instead of a true landline phone, you'll need that voip connection to be strongly encrypted too.

Needless to say, I have been very impressed by Stripe!

Thank you very much for recommendation, I am really impressed with their website, process and people behind it. Really great and noticed they have very easy and functional integration with all open source platforms like Zencart, Opencart, Prestashop, Joomla and Quickfile accounts software too.

 

[10032012]

I am surprised about the uptake of paypal actually. It was an easy way for people to receive money online and probably the direct mainstream competitor to western union. Many webhosting and ecommerce start-ups used paypal as they didn't know about merchant accounts and/or they were willing to use the method as if they had their own processing facilities no one in their right mind would trust them with their card details.

I am not sure why much well established and trusted brands have jumped on the bandwagon... whether eBay Inc knocked on their door and bullied the underdogs (in terms of turnover) into accepting payment just to avoid that annoying rep from popping his ugly head up at the office every other day or that these brands did it for an association recommendations to be featured in their adverts.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if paypal wasn't undercutting the brands merchant account rates to survive. (paypal is mandatory on ebay and used widely, but competition from Amazon, Google, many small players in the field processing card payments and innovations from banks such as the phone apps is cutting into their dominance)

 

[CAEDAN]

You can use the likes of Worldpay to process transactions, they do a combined merchant accountant and services package at a very good price. As regards to e-com site integration, the integrate with most. If you have't got any e-com software set up - then avoid free and buy it .....i say this as you bought up income v time scenario. It doesn't work out with free sites as you spend far too much time waiting for support, when a paid site can have you ready to go in no time, and with little or no hassle.

 

[JDL9000]

out of interest, do you sell many of those 12 grand golf clubs?