Giftware Retailers and Sales agents

[scologic]

Hello everyone, thanks for clicking. Im looking to find some decent giftware sales agents up and down the country to market our handmade business.

Having been to yet another trade show and come back without even handing out pricelists cos the show was full of "visitors" and no buyers i honestly have come to the end of the road with trade shows and i'd rather invest in decent honest agents to market our products.

What im after is sales agent referrals from shopkeepers in the giftware sector. In asking shops to refer agents as we're hoping to get people who will give the product good referral yet keep to our rules on number of stockists within towns etc.

(we're not selling epos here - we also have another handcraft business designing and making candles and room fragrance).

Whilst this isnt an ad - if you have a shop and fancy a look at some of the product pm me.(no flames folks they go on top of the produce not in the forum )

 

[emmylou74]

I honestly hate dealing with sales agents -sorry - I just do. I so much more prefer to look on a website and order that way.

That being said - if you have a gift item that has a cat or dog theme to it - that is not tacky - and is fresh and modern. Then feel free to pm me

 

[Vrs_Ltd]

Same as the above post - I hate dealing with sales agents and much prefer to view & order through websites. We also use trade shows to find suppliers and view the product so we know quality before ordering.

 

[scologic]

Thanks for the feedback sofar, it's interesting that you also dislike agents.

How would you normally buy stock, what trade fairs do you go to?

Personally i know it's not the product or the way we dress our trade stands and our pricing is amongst the lowest in the country - it just seems buyers are not attending trade events these days.

 

[Jeff FV]

Is that the BCTF at Harrogate you've just been too? (I only ask out of curiosity - always interested to see how the trade fairs are doing. The organisers always give you the spin:" numbers up on last year etc.", but the reality for exhibitors is often very different.)

Over the last year or so we have been actively scaling down our use of sales agents - I don't think that they work very well now (as a system - individual agents still do work hard.) However, were good for expanding our market and getting us known when we started.

I do wonder how some of them are still making a living, shops are buying less, our business is swinging back towards a bigger emphasis on selling direct to the customer through our website and NOTHS. The trade orders are always welcome but the market has significantly changed over the last couple of years.

We're not alone in this, you might find this facebook post of interest http://www.facebook.com/snapdragonjane

sorry if that's not much help, but perhaps food for thought.

J

 

[mhall]

Another one that hates Sales Agents- they don't have the knowledge we need and seem to want to sell a myriad of things that we don't want. They also don't seem to understand that if there are customers around, we will deal with customers rather than them.

Trade Fairs are the way we get new suppliers but it seems like our competition use us !

I suppose I should add that we will always look at someone who makes the stuff themselves, but we have started to give those people a "want we want from you" checklist before we see them as it is amazing how many people get upset when we tell them we don't want to buy the product they made, usually because it is just ...tat.

 

[scologic]

BCTF and others it's not just a 1 show problem.

Going back to straight retail is an option but as a 2 year old venture in a market thats led by essentially 1 brand doesnt really expand the business unless we have a larger number of resellers and is the reason we do trade fairs.

We're also in a market that generally works on a 2 - 3 year switch - not because of poor product but more due to the change in what a retailer will sell.

Personally im a realist when it come to trade events - i dont look for huge numbers of orders, covering stand cost plus accom. and material costs is all we aim for and the reorders are the cherry on top. Most of our stockists love the brand and the quality, and sell really well it's just trying to understand if shops are not visiting shows how else do they get their suppliers.

We all know retail is tough and shops are ordering less but survival is retail needs diversity and shops need to find replacement products for the items they sell. So if they are not visiting trade events how else do they avoid stagnation who shows them new suppliers and products?

Whilst some may blame poor tradeshow organisers and false footfall tricking exibitors to attend i think the trade event guys honestly have just as difficult a task as the suppliers do in getting the shop owners out of the shop.

 

[daveymck]

Is that the BCTF at Harrogate you've just been too? (I only ask out of curiosity - always interested to see how the trade fairs are doing. The organisers always give you the spin:" numbers up on last year etc.", but the reality for exhibitors is often very different.)

If its anything like spring fair then the amount of candle makers there was ridiculous seems to be a saturated market imho. We did buy candles and soaps from a small manufacturer at Autumn Fair and do look for new suppliers at the fairs as well as online although we very small purchases.

mhall we get the same, but a new range of Celtic Jewellry out and had one of the other stallholders straight over looking for branding and asking me if I bought them individually or in a package, but keeping one step ahead of the competition always a good thing. We have spread our suppliers so its very hard for someone to copy us completely although some try with parts of our range.

 

[scologic]

Davey

I understand the opinion, there are a lot of candle companies but it's a bit like the jewellery market or fused glass makers.

We have a lot of white candle in a box makers that tend to be very regional. But they all have different takes and target markets. at the BCTF we had 4 candle companies each one targeting a different kind of retail. Even when we have done other shows there is always a difference between makers.

 

[scologic]

Jeff,

Yes we know Jane..

She and yourself are not alone in the move to do more direct retail just watch you dont loose your remaining stockists as a stockist will buy hundreds in value where Joe public may only spend a tenner.

Mark

 

[daveymck]

Davey

I understand the opinion, there are a lot of candle companies but it's a bit like the jewellery market or fused glass makers.

We have a lot of white candle in a box makers that tend to be very regional. But they all have different takes and target markets. at the BCTF we had 4 candle companies each one targeting a different kind of retail. Even when we have done other shows there is always a difference between makers.

Yeah we found the Jewellery section a bit overwhelming as well and ended up rushing through and maybe missing the ideal products for us.

I appreciate that different companies are aiming at different markets and price points, always funny to see the faces of the sales people on the stalls when I say £7-£10 an item way above my target markets willingness to pay and that

I'm just bitter we bought really nice hand made candles much better quality in the smells of the standard Yankee ones and retailed for decent price have ended up using more round the house than we sold. Might manage to get shot of them over the summer when we do a bunch of multiday shows instead of our usual market, same with the nice soaps and diffusers we bought.

FWIW and maybe you dont find this but we tend to do a lot of browsing at the show looking for ideas and suppliers and may in some cases just make note of the company name on our phone and check their website and order away from the show after we have seen and had time to digest everything.

 

[scologic]

Davey,

Who's candles did you opt for?

Personally we'd never do spring fair, the problem is the stand cost v's the return on investment as we need a minimum of 3M in length for the range and at £385 per M2 and stands that are 3 x 2 , costs are around £3.5k to do the show.

We also open our design etc up for copying etc and we loose our usp.

What trade shows are people attending other than spring and autumn fair?

 

[mhall]

in a market thats led by essentially 1 brand

.

I assume you mean Yankee Candle. They seem to have the brand awareness but are fast losing Retail accounts from what I see. Every Retailer that sells them moans about how hard they are to deal with, they have had major supply problems and they now sell to Tesco, Asda and B&Q. They also made the mistake of selling a cheaper derivative into those big people - my local Asda tell me they get loads of returns, helping to destroy the brand. If anyone pays full price for a Yankee Candle nowadays they are a fool. It seems they are on a destructive path. I also note that they seem to follow the Starbucks model when it comes to paying tax in the UK, so we have a mini time bomb ticking there.

Because of that many people are moving brands, and there are plenty out there.

Village Candles (distributed by Straits) is a good brand that is picking up lots of accounts. Staffed in the US by ex Yankee people. Good price points and very good quality accessories.

Kringle Candle comes from the chap who originally created Yankee and is trading on the quality of the past. Very good quality but poor accessories.

CandleLite have appeared but seem to just copy everyone else, it would be nice if they had an original thought as they have potential.

Xystos who sell Woodwick now sell quite good accessories that are better quality than Yankee.

Colony is a good product but sells to anyone and everyone. Nice range of new accessories.

Bolsios seem to be growing their range - good quality candles with a decent margin, accessories are very poor in my opinion.

Then you have a host of other smaller companies (a brilliant Canadian Candle that is well worth a look at) both UK based and outside.

I think Yankee are vunerable as they have moved to box shifting. The question is, are the others moving fast enough to take advantage ?

 

[daveymck]

Davey,

Who's candles did you opt for?

Celtic Herbal, branding kinda fitted with what we also sell and quality is really good, we got their soaps as well, as say for us it never sold even though was at a reasonable price point for some of our customers.

 

[daveymck]

I assume you mean Yankee Candle. They seem to have the brand awareness but are fast losing Retail accounts from what I see. Every Retailer that sells them moans about how hard they are to deal with, they have had major supply problems and they now sell to Tesco, Asda and B&Q. They also made the mistake of selling a cheaper derivative into those big people - my local Asda tell me they get loads of returns, helping to destroy the brand. If anyone pays full price for a Yankee Candle nowadays they are a fool. It seems they are on a destructive path. I also note that they seem to follow the Starbucks model when it comes to paying tax in the UK, so we have a mini time bomb ticking there.

Yankee and Colony in Dobbies now as well, Collectables in the North east got a load of them as well and had some plans to open cancle only stores, but seem to be pumping a lot out in their discount store at one of the outlet places.

 

[lww]

Our products are a cross between gift and toy, we have done Spring Fair and Toy Fair and this year was just abysmal - we had more people coming to our stands trying to sell us things (marketing, logistics, design, lawyers, toy safety, export, just having a chat) than actual buyers. Whilst a couple of decent new customers can pay for the show it's a lot of outlay with a lot of risk for sure, I don't think we'll be doing either next year.

We do use sales agents and have had mixed results - a couple are a bit old-fashioned and not ideal as they tend to just have their old established accounts, whereas some others are much more dynamic and have large numbers of well-suited existing accounts but also look for new ones... but both types bring us in new customers, including ones we've approached directly before who either wouldn't see us or wouldn't order. So there is clearly an advantage with retailers knowing the agent in that respect, although the biggest obstacle often seems to be a reluctance to take on new suppliers due to paperwork and system admin!

We give agents exclusivity in their areas, but only for accounts they source and open themselves - if retailers come to us direct they are house accounts. This motivates the agents to be proactive and not just expect to land accounts for nothing. And of course they tend to visit their retailers regularly and this generally speeds up the re-orders.

I can see why many retailers wouldn't like sales agents but for smaller companies like us there is no other way to access outlets throughout the UK (and world!).

 

[scologic]

mhall

I agree, being a candle maker is a little like being a jeweller by way that i appreciate others work.

The large companys have yet to show me good quality - poor wicking, bad pouring, wetspot disgusting fragrance. I have alot of time for small independant people like ourselves and urge people to invest in UK small producers.

We also do a fair amount of contract candle work, but having designed fragrances and taken great pain to design a fantastic visual range of produce we just want to expand the sales of our own brand. We'll never be the next Colony or Yankee it's not the idea.

We've an organically grown business, we want to sell value and perfect quality to essentially show that candles dont need to be expensive to enjoy.

 

[scologic]

Davey

celtic candles look well designed, all in tins ad a little on the high price by looking at their website but good choice to select an independant.

If you are interested in seeing our stuff i can send a pdf to anyone who pm's me.

Small tins like celtic candles are under £2 a tin and we'd suggest a £4.50 retail price.

On the subject of agents I really want to get some that shop owners like to work with as it makes the whole process alot easier.

But again what trade shows do you visit and accept as successful?

 

[HawthornCraft]

Hi Scologic,

We don't stock candles anymore but when we did we sold Melt and found them originally at Top Drawer. This is one of the best trade shows for us. It has a much higher ratio of good products vs tatt and from what I can see attracts good buyers. That said, I very rarely buy on the day at a trade show. I much prefer taking some time to process what I've seen and make a decision then. I also hate agents and have never bought from one. Ideally, I like to see the products first hand at a show then order online. I also search online for brands and ask if they do wholesale; I find a lot of companies through magazines such as Mollie Makes, Country Living etc. and trade magazines such as Gift Focus, and then a number simply contact me directly, sending out well branded buyers packs either by email or post, and I'd say post is more likely to catch my attention simply because I get so many emails. Also, there's no point sending out wholesale info without prices, which happens quite a lot!

Hope that helps a little,

Stephanie

 

[Esk247]

We're looking to do the Spring Fair in Feb next year, we've been invited and we're looking at a stand that's about 6k to rent for the weekend.

We mainly deal in own brand though and exclusive lines. We make half the toys we sell ourselves in Whitby and the other products are generally exclusive to us or include a twist.

We've tried online wholesale selling but we're hit by the eBayers in their droves. For every 1 real shop we get applying for a brochure, we get about 20 odd eBayers.

One even emailed across this the other day:

"Hey,

Just signed up. Can you send me a price list and i'll get them up on eBay asap.

Cheers"

Why would we do that? :| The guy even had lots of negative feedback with people saying 'Scammer' and 'Product never arrived ,no refund, beware'.

Sod that.

I don't know what the answer is. I think it's a case of mix it up and see what retailers respond to best. Cold calling telesales kind of works but is hit and miss depending on who picks up the phone, face to face works 99% of the time for us but we struggle to get the meetings as retailers are on the back foot straight away.

I still think trade shows work, as long as you have a unique product or items that are imported/made by yourself. I hope so anyway..its costing us £300 just for the marketing pack from the Spring Fair

 

[lww]

We've tried online wholesale selling but we're hit by the eBayers in their droves. For every 1 real shop we get applying for a brochure, we get about 20 odd eBayers.

What do you mean by online wholesale selling? Do you list your stuff somewhere? It's easy to say no to the eBayers but any route to new retailers is worth it.

I still think trade shows work, as long as you have a unique product or items that are imported/made by yourself. I hope so anyway..its costing us £300 just for the marketing pack from the Spring Fair

Possibly the most unjustified £300 invoice in the entire world - a listing on their website and a 1 line entry on the stand lists! And if you book after the print deadline you don't even get that... grrr!

PS.

that's about 6k to rent for the weekend.

You do know it's Sunday to Thursday right?

 

[scologic]

Thanks for the FB Hawthorne and esk - 6K is a lot to recoup. I onyl spend that money on trade with Sco Logic and thats because we've been around for 15 years in the industry and IT stuff does cost significantly more.

Watch your budget with spring fair as other I have spoken too spent 2.5 but their neighbour would get a last minute for £900 and with more space.

There are alot of empty stands appearing at shows.

Hawthorne - it'd be a nice bit feedback if you saw the pdf. Melt is a quality brand and they do have very nice packaging. Can I PM you the link to our brochure?

 

[Esk247]

What do you mean by online wholesale selling? Do you list your stuff somewhere? It's easy to say no to the eBayers but any route to new retailers is worth it.

Yes as in allowing people to view our product range online in their leisure. We don't allow eBayers to sell our products, we've tried it before and it leads to more grief than it's worth. Not many retailers seem to browse online though, only the tech savvy, and around these parts that's not many, we're mainly rural and very few shops here have websites or even internet access, they seem to visit trade shows and fairs. One person we supply visits all the big shows as a type of holiday/buying trip and leaves someone in the shop while they're at it.

Possibly the most unjustified £300 invoice in the entire world - a listing on their website and a 1 line entry on the stand lists! And if you book after the print deadline you don't even get that... grrr!

Probably but we're going to see if its of any help. The website listing might be useful as we've used it in the past to check suppliers out, not every supplier has a website can you believe

PS. You do know it's Sunday to Thursday right?

It's Friday, I got my week and weekend muddled up. This is what happens when one works until 3am doing paperwork.

 

[Esk247]

Thanks for the FB Hawthorne and esk - 6K is a lot to recoup. I onyl spend that money on trade with Sco Logic and thats because we've been around for 15 years in the industry and IT stuff does cost significantly more.

We're trialling it as a new marketing technique. We could have gone for the 2.5k stand but it's not going to be big enough for us.

We also want to do the Harrogate show but need to work some things out for that.

We attended a trade show in Scarborough but it was pretty poor. A few good wholesalers just stood around looking bored, members of the public wandering round as well not really grasping the concept. So small trade shows don't seem to work either.

 

[lww]

Yes as in allowing people to view our product range online in their leisure.

Ah I see, yes that's what we do too.

We don't allow eBayers to sell our products, we've tried it before and it leads to more grief than it's worth.

Same here and more and more bricks and mortar retailers are actively commenting on how pleased they are at that... you have to protect your brands.

I was thinking about how we found our existing customers, I'd say it's about like this:

Trade Shows: 20%
Agents: 50%
We Found Them: 10%
They Found Us: 15%
Word Of Mouth: 5% (ie. one business owner tells another)

Probably but we're going to see if its of any help. The website listing might be useful as we've used it in the past to check suppliers out, not every supplier has a website can you believe

Yes actually it's worth ensuring you do your listing properly with images - loads of companies don't - you do get people who use that, especially those who can't make the show at the last minute.

It's Friday, I got my week and weekend muddled up. This is what happens when one works until 3am doing paperwork.

Didn't want you driving home on Sunday night wondering why nobody else was rushing to break down their stands

 

[scologic]

Very interesting that agents do 50% for you. are you able to share your agents to see if they would market our products? Do they behave themselves and do your customers like the fact agents do the work for you?

 

[HawthornCraft]

Hawthorne - it'd be a nice bit feedback if you saw the pdf. Melt is a quality brand and they do have very nice packaging. Can I PM you the link to our brochure?

Yup, feel free

Stephanie

 

[daveymck]

Out of interest how does Autumn vs Spring fair cost in difference? I know for us we found the smaller Autumn fair much better for our smaller trading requirements less intimidating and I think we got to see more even though there was less there. I realise that with toys you may well be on and year in advance for larger retailers (as evident by the huge Christmas section at spring fair) but are a lot of the retailers you may be aiming at on a shorter buying schedule.

 

[lww]

Very interesting that agents do 50% for you. are you able to share your agents to see if they would market our products? Do they behave themselves and do your customers like the fact agents do the work for you?

I think it's more a case of retailers being comfortable dealing with established agents they might have known for years. Our better agents already represent quality brands and have established relationships with say one or two hundred retailers - that's what we wanted as our products then become a relatively easy sell for them... they can present a new and unique range, the retailer doesn't mind having a proper look at them, and the end result is that we cover a significantly larger proportion of the UK market than we could possibly achieve by ourselves (especially as we are not great salesmen ourselves!).

By way of example, we had a retailer who refused to see us when we contacted them about our products. We tried a few more times as (a) they were fairly local to us and (b) we knew our products would sell really
well there, and finally they relented - we got to pitch to a disinterested buyer who could barely wait until we were finished before a terse "no thanks" and out the door. A few months later and we took on an agent who happened to already supply that retailer with other lines - we warned him of their disinterest, but 1 week later he fed back to us that "she loves your stuff" and they stocked our products straight away!

It depends on how much time, effort and ability you have to sell your products to retailers I guess.

As for sharing our agents, I'm afraid not - unless your products are in the same sort of area as ours they wouldn't be relevant, and if they were in the same area as ours we wouldn't want to introduce a rival product for the retailers' budgets!

 

[Esk247]

By way of example, we had a retailer who refused to see us when we contacted them about our products. We tried a few more times as (a) they were fairly local to us and (b) we knew our products would sell really
well there, and finally they relented - we got to pitch to a disinterested buyer who could barely wait until we were finished before a terse "no thanks" and out the door. A few months later and we took on an agent who happened to already supply that retailer with other lines - we warned him of their disinterest, but 1 week later he fed back to us that "she loves your stuff" and they stocked our products straight away!

It depends on how much time, effort and ability you have to sell your products to retailers I guess.

Same for us. I spent 3 weeks calling round by phone and in person..nadda..zilch..zippo. They looked at me as if I was on drugs.

"No, we don't buy anything like gifts I'm afraid"....you're a GIFT SHOP...gifts everywhere!!

Agent goes in and boom, trial order in the bag.

There must be some psychological thing about sales agents being very forward and determined to sell end of. Can't explain it.