getting paid on time

wheeler-dealer

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Aug 12, 2010
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is it too much to ask to get paid on time as per your terms an conditions ie 30 days?
the trouble is you dont want to seem like a pest by keeping phoning to chase up. do you think it would put off customers for repeated work if you insist on invoices being paid on time.
just wondered what other peoples views are?
 

JEREMY HAWKE

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    EXETER DEVON
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    is it too much to ask to get paid on time as per your terms an conditions ie 30 days?
    the trouble is you dont want to seem like a pest by keeping phoning to chase up. do you think it would put off customers for repeated work if you insist on invoices being paid on time.
    just wondered what other peoples views are?

    Its a really good post

    If you are dealing with the accounts department of a large company and you phoned them quite often it would in most cases not even matter.
    Your main contact that you deal with and books out most of the orders/work to you would not even know you were chasing so it would not really matter.

    Smaller companies may not like it but if the money does not come in quick enough it could spell ruination.What would happen if every invoice due this month does not come in until May 15th ? !!!.How many of us could wear it ?
    Having been on the recieving end of non payment and various other payment issues I think the best businesses to be in are where you take payment at the order point
     
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    And if you are having problems meeting YOUR obligtions be straight with your suppliers, do not try fobbing them off with every old trick under the sun, one after another or it will probably come back to bite you at some stage.

    An honest reason for slow payment probably with an accountant's letter thrown into the bargain and a commitment which you are prepared to stick to may well prevent you ending up in front of a judge. ;)
     
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    LicensedToTrade

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    There are only three reasons why customers don't pay invoices on time. 1. They don't have the money, 2. They aren't sufficiently organised to pay on time, 3. They don't want to pay you yet.

    International companies that employ hundreds of thousands of employees and have sufficient funds in the account to pay invoices on time still hold off payment as long as they can. Cash is king and it is a lot more valuable in your pocket than someone elses.

    In credit control there are carrots and sticks. A good carrot for on time payment is an EPD agreement (Early Payment Discount) whereby the invoice amount has a couple of % knocked off for early or on time completion. There is an endless list of sticks such as placing their credit account on stop or reducing or even cancelling it. You can petition for a CCJ, you can seize goods that are unpaid for etc. But by the time you are getting to some of these sticks your credit control process has failed.
     
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    LicensedToTrade

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    So you would suggest issuing a CCJ against a company who I invoice for several thousand pounds per month??

    Where did I say that? I believe I said that petitioning for a CCJ was one of the many options available. I quickly followed up by stating that if it ever got to that stage then your credit control has failed, thus implying that CCJs should only ever be a last resort. Not the kind of stick you should be using on customers that you intend on retaining.
     
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    HFE Signs

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    Many people pay 30 days following the month end, this is quite normal, so it really depends on the invoice date, i.e. if you send in a jan invoice dated 25th jan it will be paid the last week in feb... also if you send in an invoice 1st jan it will also be paid end of feb, so try to send your invoices towards the end of the months so it only goes over the 30-day by no more than a week or two.
     
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    LicensedToTrade

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    I sometimes get paid 1,2,3 even sometimes 4 and 5 months later.
    The two scenarios above happen with my two major clients whom if they stopped giving me work would probably almost kill me off. So how would you go about dealing with this, apart from doing what I do. Which is chasing it up very nicely and politely :)

    Firstly I would try to best determine which category this customer falls into for reasons of non-payment. Are they paying late because they don't have the money in the bank to cover it, are they simply disorganised or are they just choosing to pay you late because they can get away with it?

    You can not know this for sure but you can make an educated guess based on what you do know. What other suppliers do they use? (nobody uses one supplier) Get in touch with these suppliers to see if you can find out if anyone else has problems getting payment from them, but be careful what you say, it is easy to put your foot in it with DPA these days.

    If you determine that it is the first scenario where they simply do not have the funds to pay you, due to poor cashflow or they just don't have the money then you cannot get blood from a stone. You can set up a regular payment plan to clear the backlog of outstanding invoices, help them set this up so that you are the easiest supplier to pay off, you can rest assured it isn't just you that is owed money by them. Once the outstanding invoices are cleared you need to think about reducing their credit limit. Yes they spend a lot with you but clearly they cannot keep on top of payments and as such you are providing them with an interest free credit account that no bank would ever give them. You are exposing yourself to potential debt write-offs if this company goes under. A sale isn't a sale until it is paid for.

    If you determine that they aren't paying on time due to lack of organisation on their part, then offer to assist them by setting up an invoice payment process whereby you will speak to an appointed person within their office on a regular basis to help them track upcoming invoices on a calendar before they are issued, to give them sufficient time to prepare anticipated BACS/CHAPS payments.

    If you determine that they are holding off payment because they just don't want to pay you yet then as I mentioned in an earlier post you can offer some incentives such as a % discount for Early Payment. It is better to get 95% of the value of an invoice into your bank early than have 0% of the value for the next four months. What you have done now is offer them a reason to get their payments in on time, they would be silly not to.

    Your other option is to sacrifice a % of all your invoice values by outsourcing to a third party credit controller who will manage all of this for you.
     
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    LicensedToTrade

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    As for outsourcing it, I may as well close the company.

    Basically sometimes you just have to wait, when dealing with big companies that is sometimes the way things go. Do I turn down 40k plus of work a month or do I just put up with it??? I just put up with it :)


    Let me tell you something, no business is safe from going under, regardless of their industry or whether they go public on the stock exchange.

    Sometimes its because I am lost in the system, other times its because they are balancing the books unitl the next month. One of the companies above is listed on the stock market and although they have had a rough time they always have money.

    Suppliers never get lost in the system, they sit in a queue and your position in the queue is determined by how you have handled their outstanding invoices in the past. If you keep on top of them and provide them with a reasonable payment solution you will sit at the top of this queue, if you let them slide by for four months relying on a phone call as each unpaid week goes by then you will sit on the bottom as someone who is a pushover.

    All the other contractors are in the same position, bricklayers, plasterers etc... I actually remember a cleaner who could not pay her mortgage as she cleaned two sites for them but they did not pay her for three months. Me and the owner of the painting company lent her the invoice value until it was paid.


    These people fall under the poor cashflow/ not enough money classification. If they aren't capable of managing their cashflow due to their own customers extending their payment terms then that doesn't automatically mean you should have that burden passed to you. In 2009 we had customers that went under with credit limits ranging from £15k to £1mn, and these were just the ones that we failed to manage properly, there would have been a lot more like them if we didn't have proper credit control procedures in place. A lot of the smaller amounts (<100k) were as a result of housebuilders changing their payment terms to subbies from 30 days to 90 days, with typical payments made at 120 days. It soon became clear which companies were going to go under, payment patterns to us would change overnight, customers who had always paid pretty much on time weren't paying any more. We had the funds to take the hit, most SMEs don't.

    There is no point in setting something like this up because they will do want they want, and how they want.


    Let's remember that this is YOUR money that we are talking about, no theirs. They have YOUR money and they aren't giving it to you. It is less a case of offering them assistance and more a case of implementing a payment plan for them.

    I supply security guards. I do not think they will go under as there assets are numerous, land, office blocks etc... As for reducing their credit I may as well tell them to stick their work where the shine dont shine

    I'd say that there isn't a company out there, security industry or otherwise that is ever more than 6 months away from going under if something were to go horribly wrong. Your job from a credit control point of view is to make sure that if a company does go under that as small an amount of money is owed to you when they do. Balancing risk with reward is very difficult in credit control and it is impossible to get it right every time. Turning large orders away is not something that sales people feel comfortable with but if the credit analysis indicates that your chances of getting that money back are nex to nothing then turning the order down is the right thing to do.

    Once again I may as well tell them where to stick their work


    You could phrase it that way or you could implement better credit control measures to aim to avoiding that situation ever arising, but always maintaining telling them to 'stick it' as an option.

    Credit control can be described as a science but when all is said and done it comes down to gambling, even with all the research and analysis in the world, you take a risk.
     
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    KernowQueen

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    Oct 21, 2010
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    this and that, the secenario you've described is very familiar to me, fortunately our late payers have only delayed for up to a month, up to now anyway. i do know that the contractors that we subbie to often have to wait 3 months for payment from some of the big boys at the top of the chain.

    i did try to do something different this month, our invoices fall due on the last day of the month & i always make sure that statements are with them on this day or the day after. we've only got about 10 main clients who we do work for on a regular basis, a couple will pay upon receipt of statement, but most won't. but, because i hate phoning asking for our money, i usually put off phoning until the week after the statement.

    this time, i rang on the 1st/2nd, not chasing as such, but confirming balance due & when are you paying.
    A - yes, will pay by bacs Friday, they did.
    B - yes, chq in the post Tues/Weds. i rang on weds to check this had been done & was told sorry can't release chq as we're waiting payment coming in (i do love being lied to!). i'll call again tomorrow.
    C - yes, usually pay us 2 weeks later than due. high value regular account so little we can do about it. but, as i'd rang earlier than usual, they did actually pay us friday.
    D - waiting payment coming in, will let you know monday.

    so, not great, but better than if i'd left it until this coming week. i'm also trying to get across to hubbie that cashflow is getting tight across the board & we've got to be so careful about how much total risk we're open to - the account that's due now, Feb invoices just billed plus any work during March. just because a company has always paid, even if late, in the past, it means nothing at the moment, no matter how good your relationship is with them. if anyone goes pop up the food chain from them, we'll all be stuffed.
     
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    KernowQueen

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    well, after a promising start, i'm getting nowhere fast with my lot!

    my 2 customers with balances owing -
    B i'm phoning every day, they're saying that they can't release a cheque as they are still waiting payment coming in, i've said this is having a severe impact on our cashflow now as i've had to pay all of our suppliers as we'll be on stop. the reply, "oh, we're already on stop with everyone any way"! :rolleyes:

    D is paying us 1 invoice from January (the larger one fortunately) but is now saying the other is in dispute. first we know about it & they've had the invoice over a month...:|

    the joys of running a business :( *sigh*
     
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    A.McVitty

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    Companies would definitely rather have money in their account than in yours and so getting invoices paid can prove difficult sometimes.

    I would recommend being as fair as you can, but don't be a mug for anyone. It all comes down to the type of person you are. I know people who demand payment of an invoice and will chase it without remorse until it is paid. I also know people who will continue to supply goods or staff even when an invoice is being chased. These people manage to keep cool and carry on knowing that they will be paid. But they are not soft.

    One person I know supplied staff to a company and invoiced for these services on a monthly basis. The invoices started to fall behind and one night a phonecall was made to the managing director of the company telling him that there was a problem. The problem was that forty two members of staff wouldn't be able to make it into work in the morning. It was gently suggested that this might have something to do with outstanding invoices.

    To cut a long story short, all staff made it to work (they would have anyway as they knew nothing about it) but the invoices were paid the very next day. The managing director realised that the only thing worse than money going out of his company bank account was no money coming in.
     
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    Companies going bust owing me for outstanding invoices has happened to me twice in my self-employed years. Both times, it was about £4000. And both times I'd wished that I'd listened to my instincts sooner.

    The third time, I intervened. The company I was working for (company A) resold articles I'd written to a publisher (company B). After three months of arrears, I called B and said that I hadn't been paid by A, so I'd have to resell that work (which had a short sell-by-date) to another publisher.

    I explained that it probably wasn't a good idea for B to proceed with publishing my work (because B only buys exclusive rights). B must've hassled A the same day, and I got paid by A (through gritted teeth). But I never worked for A again. Which was fine by me.
     
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