Furlough conditions

[JDX_John]

Aside from all the technical details on when someone was employed, etc, what are the rules on deciding if someone can be furloughed? The gov.uk pages really seem to give no detail beyond "due to covid-19", does this mean anyone who is in a position they are struggling to retain staff for any reasons can furlough them under a blanket "covid, innit?" without having to get specific?

e.g. if if business is down 40% can I just assume that's covid-related and furlough people to try and get through until things pick up, or do I need to demonstrate how this is directly, rather than indirectly due to Covid?

I know the scheme is starting to taper off with employers making contributions but if one finds themself in a summer lull, retaining staff is preferable if there is aid available.

 

[Gavin Bates]

Hi

As far as I am aware you are correct, you don't need to have a reason for the furlough, which I assume is why they are keen to bring it to an end.

Regards

Gavin

 

[Newchodge]

You need to believe the problem is caused by Covid, but you don't have to give your reasons when making the claim. If you were investigated, you may have to.

 

[JDX_John]

You need to believe the problem is caused by Covid, but you don't have to give your reasons when making the claim. If you were investigated, you may have to.

I imagine like many things we don't have any idea how that will turn out (investigations, attempts to reclaim money), but it sounds like if you can make a reasonable case you should be OK? For instance any customer-facing business which relies on people physically coming to your business-place and interacting, could reasonably ascribe low numbers to the public staying away for Covid reasons?

We run a nursery school and with cases rising and schools in the news a lot, it seems likely that lower uptake for next term might be due to parents deciding to keep kids at home while things develop... but it's hard to prove this.

 

[Newchodge]

I imagine like many things we don't have any idea how that will turn out (investigations, attempts to reclaim money), but it sounds like if you can make a reasonable case you should be OK? For instance any customer-facing business which relies on people physically coming to your business-place and interacting, could reasonably ascribe low numbers to the public staying away for Covid reasons?

We run a nursery school and with cases rising and schools in the news a lot, it seems likely that lower uptake for next term might be due to parents deciding to keep kids at home while things develop... but it's hard to prove this.

I would have thought that was very likely. I am also aware that last March a lot of nurseries/childminders, who could not provide a service, refused to refund pre-paid fees. I don't know if that situation continued? If so that may be an added reason.

 

[JDX_John]

@Newchodge I remember that, I am fairly sure it was shown to be illegal for them to take fees though I'm not sure what happened about it.
They clarified that you cannot claim furlough for staff working with government-funded children on the basis that income was still coming from local authorities - although some authorities then tried to claw-back funding for children who didn't attend.

So a bit more complex - fun fun

 

[Newchodge]

@Newchodge I remember that, I am fairly sure it was shown to be illegal for them to take fees though I'm not sure what happened about it.
They clarified that you cannot claim furlough for staff working with government-funded children on the basis that income was still coming from local authorities - although some authorities then tried to claw-back funding for children who didn't attend.

So a bit more complex - fun fun

I remember that part of the furlough nightmare as well. You had to work out the proportion of gvernment-funded children and claim the inverse proportion of furlough. AAARRRRGGHHH

 

[IanSuth]

I think you may longer term find that WFH / Hybrid working affects your business, as even if parents are doing the same hours of paid work not having to pay for childminding/nursery whilst they travel will be a benefit to them but reduce hours they book at people like yourself.

I know my wife worked 5 hrs a day when we had 3 young children purely so she wasnt paying a childminder for 3 lunch hours when she wasnt earning and 5 hrs was the max she could do without an unpaid break. We were still paying for 6 hours childcare due to the 30 mins travel at beginning and end of day which would have been reduced to zero if she could have worked from home as childminder was nearly a neighbour and the primary school/nursery (and adjacent little ducklings) are only 1/4 mile away

 

[JDX_John]

You could be right @IanSuth though it seems to come from all different angles. At one point everyone was keeping their kids home, at another point we had more because playgroups weren't running and parents were desperate for their kids to have contact with other kids.

 

[IanSuth]

You could be right @IanSuth though it seems to come from all different angles. At one point everyone was keeping their kids home, at another point we had more because playgroups weren't running and parents were desperate for their kids to have contact with other kids.

Family friends eldest is a nursery room leader, she is about fatigued out after 15 mths of having to work whilst others were furloughed around her (something to do with who had which qualifications), it is only that she is a very shy and isnt self confident that she hasn't walked away and found another job. Don't under estimate the effect on the non furloughed staff if they see their colleagues getting paid to sit at home whilst they feel they are doing all the work, sometimes saving money in one place costs more in another