Fire Safety Idea, thoughts please.

[redcall safety]

It is my current feeling that there is a lot of pressure on responsible people to undertake fire risk assessments on their premises without the underpinning knowledge and skills or resources.

What are your thoughts? What do you need?

I am selling down-loadable templates but is this enough? I have thought about selling a complete fire safety solution by way of a folder and electronic resource disk with the following:

Fire Risk Assessment Template
Fire Testing and Maintenance Records
A Fire Safety Training Presentation for staff and responsible persons.

What sort of price would you pay?

I already sell these on the website but how accessible are they and would I be better cold calling selling the whole concept as a tangible product?

Consultants are available but cost, I am trying to help the small business at the cheapest possible solution. (I still have to make a small profit though) I am sure that fire safety is far from people's priority but it is essential for every premise to undertake one (at least think about it if you employ less than five people)

I would love to hear your feedback and see if I can cater for your needs.

Thanks,

Tim
Redcallsafety.co.uk

 

[telemax]

Hi Tim

I don't know much about fire risk assesments but I do know something about cold calling.

Maybe you need to select a number of likely prospects, say for example 100 companies and spend a few days cold calling them yourself, try selling it as if it is something you already do. From this exercise you will be able to gauge how much interest there really is and then make a decision from there.

If you need any help or advice on what to say, don't hesitate to ask.

All the best

Jonathan

 

[onthedottyping]

Hi Tim
Welcome to the forum - lovely to meet you

Samantha

 

[JonM]

Hi RS

First of all welcome!

I'm the Company Secretary on the Board of a set of leasehold flats (the management company is owned by the leaseholders but we farm out the day-to-day stuff to a property management firm). We recently spent several hundred ££ on a fire inspection.

Had we known about your service I think we would certainly have taken a look. It's in our interest to keep costs down so we leaseholders pay lower service charges. From that point of view your product would definitely have been of interest to us. I'm not sure about how much we would have been willing to pay - it all depends upon the product - but maybe £50 - £100?

The key things about the documents would be:
- absolute reassurance that we would be doing a good job
- simplicity and ease of use. Think KISS!
- step by step instructions for all eventualities.

Not quite the market you were originally thinking about, but I hope this helps. Maybe property management companies would also be interested (not sure about this as they are using other people's money!)

Hope this helps

Jon

 

[Paula Barrett]

Hi Tim, I will move this to General Business - as it's not really an introduction and you'll most likely get a much better response in there. Feel free to post up a thread introducing yourself in the Introduction forum also though.

And welcome to the forum!

Paula

 

[AdamJ]

There are a lot of free fire risk assessment templates out there, and this includes official ones from the government. There are a series of books on fire risk assessment covering specific industries which walk you though the basics of a fire risk assessment (in excellent detail and in plain English) and have a risk assessment template. These are free to download and cost something like £10 printed, and as they're the official guidance I would guess these are your main competition when selling templates.

http://www.communities.gov.uk/fire/firesafety/firesafetylaw/aboutguides/ (also linked on the RedcallSafety site, which is nice to see).

As someone who works in the industry, my counsel on this to most people is always never never ever do a fire risk assessment unless you know what you are on about and have some relevant experience and qualifications. For example, what is a fire door? Does it have to have an intumescent strip? How many mm gap can you have around it? Which way does it have to open (rules can change depending on the number of people expected to use it)? Do you even need an alternative escape route? Etc etc. Sure, I'm biased as I do fire risk assessment (some, but only a few as they take too much time and don't pay well enough!), but I've done jobs where someone has done them in house previously, then had a visit from the fire officer who has found them wanting. Often, it seems to come down to doing it cheaply or doing it right. If its got to be done cheaply, my question would have to be, do your paid-for templates offer something different or better than the free, high quality, official guides and their associated assessments? If its the training element, then really push that aspect of your package - as its something that adds value over and above the other stuff out there.

 

[redcall safety]

Thank you Adam for those comments. I want to help the small business who probably can't and maybe don't really need the services of a fire risk assessor.

You are absolutely right that someone without the correct underpinning knowledge and skills should not be undertaking a complex subject like fire risk assessment however it is probably achievable, with the right level of information, to assess a small B&B, shop, pub or office.

I do believe that my templates offer the depth without being over complicated where other 'free' fire risk assessment don't - even those offered via the CLG website however I will look at concentrating on the training side, maybe a template can be a free download to get a foot in the door or at least visiting my site.

 

[An Oasis]

Hi Tim

Have a look at what Safety Scene does and see if it fits in with what you do. Send me a PM if you think that your information would be useful to our clients and their target market... I am sure that I could sort out some form of promotion for you if this the case.

 

[AdamJ]

I do believe that my templates offer the depth without being over complicated where other 'free' fire risk assessment don't - even those offered via the CLG website however I will look at concentrating on the training side, maybe a template can be a free download to get a foot in the door or at least visiting my site.

Good luck - I think with combining a training package with the assessment template you could be onto a good thing. Rather than simply "here is a template" it could be more like "here is a template, and here is how to go about it". A good approach.

 

[Sparky331]

Firstly you have to look at the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005. The 'Responsible Person', who should be listed in every risk assessment, has to carry out a suitable and sufficient fire risk assessment. This should be undertaken by a competent person. Incidentally there is a definition of competency in the guidance.

What you are selling is a do it yourself package for very simple premises which is great but people also need to be aware when they get out of their depth. The significant findings don't even have to be recorded in writing if you employ fewer than 5 persons. These are the types of businesses you should be aiming for.

Anything else leave it up to qualified and competent consultants who don't always charge the earth. I've just done 3 simple landlord's common areas in buildings for £75 each. They each had written documents which enabled them to comply with the new Order. Admittedly I could only do this at that price as they were all done on the same day in the same area.

You mentioned simple risk assessments on pubs. Ooops!! Be careful as the persons who buy your product will not know how to calculate the numbers of person that can safely be accommodated in the building, units of exit width, floor space calculations etc.

Believe me it can be a difficult job for even us professionals who have carried out hundreds of assesments never mind the lay person. As I said, only very simple premises with few staff could be done this way. There may well be mileage in training though to larger firms who you could sell the package to.

Bob

 

[redcall safety]

Thanks Bob, great advice and you are right. I am a fire safety officer for a local authority fire service. I have audited many bad and very bad do it yourself risk assessment and I have also visited premises where a responsible persons has not undertaken an assessment or carried out training even though their premise is small.

Of course having said the above I have to be careful of any conflict of interest - I have been very careful not to get involved in the actual risk assessing part but feel I can help by offering guidance.

When we were working with the Fire Precautions Act I as a Fire Officer could give specific advice however under the RRO we have to be as non-prescriptive as possible, this is frustrating as I would love to be able to offer an amount of time and save potential future problems. We are also not allowed to recommend where a responsible person obtains advice other than fire.gov.uk.

I completely agree that a competent risk assessor should be the one undertaking fire risk assessment but I think there is a place for DIY assessment kits, the trick is getting one that is relatively easy to complete (with background reading)

I have looked around and this is an area that seems to be lacking in suitable products however I have read with interest the posts here and thought that maybe I should concentrate on the training aspect for many reasons.

I would like to look at my training package and provide an interactive electronic product (maybe in other languages too.) What I really need is someone conversant with Flash or something similar to help produce it...

Thank you all for your comments.

Tim

 

[Sparky331]

Hiya Tim,

Yes, unfortunately gone are the days of the old FSO with the pencil behind the ear telling people they need a fire exit sign over that door or "you need to get that self closing device fixed mate". Oh dear, some of us is still of the old school!!

Nowadays it's a case of: It's your building, you risk assess it then tell us (the Fire Authority) what you've found wrong and what you intend to do about it. If we agree then we'll give you the thumbs up and see you again in a few years. If we don't agree we'll give you time to put it right. But please sir - put what right - you haven't told me how to put it right!! Not my problem matey, if you're not competent then get someone in who is.

Seriously, you are right about the training aspect and kits for small business. I wish I could help with the 'flash' aspect but the only 'flash' I knew was a guy called Gordon. (Or something I may have done in my younger day after a few beers)