Film Poster Design - Copyright Query

Bob_Truslove

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Jan 15, 2011
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Hello Reader,

Firstly, thank you for any assistance you can offer.

I want to start a business designing and selling original movie posters. These posters will be based on existing movies. I would like to know:

1) To do this, would I require permission from the film's owner/distributer?
2) If yes, how is this negotiated and what are the typical terms?
3) How can I find out who owns the rights to a movie?
4) Would I need permission to do this if a movie is in the public domain?
5) If a poster is given away for free - do I still need permission?

Thanks for your time.

Bob Truslove
 

paulears

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Jan 7, 2015
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Suffolk - UK
I want to start a business designing and selling original movie posters. These posters will be based on existing movies. I would like to know:

1) To do this, would I require permission from the film's owner/distributer?
2) If yes, how is this negotiated and what are the typical terms?
3) How can I find out who owns the rights to a movie?
4) Would I need permission to do this if a movie is in the public domain?
5) If a poster is given away for free - do I still need permission?
Confused - you can buy originals and re-sell them, but if you design them - they're not originals.

The snag will be that copyright will rear it's head in almost every area.
1 - if the product you are designing/re-designing uses original fonts and logos and even the title in many cases, permission is required. The original posters were often quite complex in their own copyright - and the size of the actors names precisely proportioned according to status. Very often you'll also have copyright within copyright - so "Filmed in Technicolor" is a use of a Tradename, so that might be a problem too.

It's likely that no single agency would be able to just give you clearance - the design of the actual poster may actually be copyright belonging to a designer who licensed the poster.

Amateurs putting on popular shows sometimes cannot use original typefaces, or the opposite - they MUST use the known one, and frequently now the owner insists on certain features.

Look at a typical film poster from the 50s-90s - the individual elements are probably all 'difficult'.

From my own dealings with copyright clearances I'd imagine that getting permission to reproduce any of the big studio's posters will be complex and/or very expensive.

If you could explain what you have in mind, maybe we can suggest something?
 
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Bob_Truslove

Free Member
Jan 15, 2011
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Hi Paul,

Many thanks for you help here.

Yep, sounds confusing. I want to start this business - but, if I'm not careful, the Copyright Police will finish it. I wouldn't be using logos or original fonts. I think at most I would use a film's title, actor's and director's names, and perhaps a quote from the film.

It would be simplest to show you an example, but I cannot post URLs. If you search for "redesigned film posters" in Google - then several examples will come up in the images section.

To begin, I would be aiming to produce posters for older films - like Bicycle Thieves (1948) or King Kong (1933). But I am unsure if using older films would make it easier or harder to get the film owner's/distributer's permission? What do you think?

Thanks Paul.

Bob
 
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It is rare for copyright to vest in quotes or titles as they're generally too short to qualify for copyright protection. Having said that, quotes may be sufficiently long if they capture the essence of the full work.

As to the copyright of the entire poster, presumably your redesign would change the poster to a sufficient extent so as not to infringe the original work. The whole point appears to be that you are representing a different idea to the original poster as in the examples that appear when you search for the term you mentioned.

As to usage of trade marks, you could put a disclaimer stating the trade marks are the property of the owner and you have no intention to confuse or mislead etc. This would reduce the risk of any trade mark owner wanting to take action. I would have thought the risk would be quite low considering you are simply replicating the trade mark in the same way as the original poster, in terms of acknowledging the technology used for example or the film studio. You are paying homage rather than aiming to mislead I believe.

I imagine the risk would be low that the copyright owner or the film owner would take action, assuming that you weren't creating posters that were defamatory.

A letter to the film studio that created the movie wouldn't go amiss potentially, explaining what you were doing and asking permission. Although as pointed out, they may either refuse permission (regardless of whether they had reasonable grounds to do so) and also may want a royalty/fee.
 
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paulears

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Jan 7, 2015
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I'm not too sure of the attraction of a poster so different to the original that copyright doesn't become and issue? Over here, 70 years is the limit from the date the first one was published. The situation in America is slightly different, but follows similar lines. The thing to watch is that if it has been re-released, maybe as a Directors Cut - as many Hitchock movies were, then the poster was re-designed for the re-issue, and the 70 years starts from that point - it's a new design. So you'd need to make sure that you avoid the trademarks, and any obviously identifiable fonts or graphics. For example, the Bat symbol - the ellipse with a bat in it. Making the background a different colour, or changing the bat shape slightly would still be identifiable or mistaken for the original. Like the Red Cross symbol. It's protected under the Geneva Convention, so any red cross with identical arm lengths cannot be used - period! Make it pink, or blue or have it white on a coloured background, and you are fine.
 
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paulears

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I still work from time to time with the Baron Knights - they gave up on parody in the 80s because they obviously were profiting from it and they just couldn't afford it (and, of course - many artistes just refused permission).

Crazily - the reason TV adverts always feature new recordings of famous tunes is because to use the original is just too expensive too.

If you want to make money - expect the owners of the original to be interested.
 
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If you search hard on Google you might find some film posters which were produced for film shows at the Royal College of Art in the 1960s. I know for a fact that none of them asked permission despite many becoming classics. I especially remember Ken Sequin's "An American in Paris" which was a line of bottles in sillhouette, 3 champagne bottles and a single coca cola bottle.
 
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Bob_Truslove

Free Member
Jan 15, 2011
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Thanks everybody.

From all the comments, it seems that this is a huge grey and permission is needed. However, with so many different companies and individuals involved with a movie - this could be very difficult to get...

Original work would definitely be easier - and well worth a look. Thanks for the prompt, Eagle.

I wouldn't redesign Hitchcock posters - as I don't think I can do much better than the original designer (Saul Bass). But films like 12 Angry Men - I think a new poster based on the film's content could potentially work?

I'm still trying to figure out three things:

1) How can I find out who owns the rights to a movie?
2) Would I need permission to do this if a movie is in the public domain?
3) If a poster is given away for free - do I still need permission?

If any body can help, I'd appreciate your help.

Thanks again for everybody's input.

Bob
 
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Newcott

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Jul 9, 2010
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Search on IMDB - normally the main studio or distributors will be the ones who are able to give permission.

free poster - possible. I've seen quite a few graphic designers around the net re-doing movie posters to gain exposure, one I even think got a job at one of the trailer promotion companies.
 
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paulears

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Jan 7, 2015
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The copyright holder is always on the poster and DVD.
If the movie IS in the public domain - and very few are except those sold in the bargain shops for a couple of quid, things should be better - the original poster copyright will have expired - but you need to check that you really are using the original and not a later re-design.
Giving it away for free makes no difference - if you infringe copyright, what you do with it is immaterial.
 
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obscure

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IANAL but I have spent 20+ years working with IP lawyers and doing movie licensing deals for video games companies.

Creating a poster which is based on an existing copyright work would almost certainly be considered a "derivative work" and as such a breach of copyright. The only way to avoid this would be to make the poster so unrecognisably different from existing posters and/or the film that it would defeat the purpose.

Use of the film name anywhere on the poster would most likely constitute Trademark infringement.

As to usage of trade marks, you could put a disclaimer stating the trade marks are the property of the owner and you have no intention to confuse or mislead etc. This would reduce the risk of any trade mark owner wanting to take action. I would have thought the risk would be quite low considering you are simply replicating the trade mark in the same way as the original poster, in terms of acknowledging the technology used for example or the film studio. You are paying homage rather than aiming to mislead I believe.
Actually it would be worse. If the IP owner takes the OP to court the only defence would be to claim that you didn't know it was copyright/a trademark. The court would still rule in favour of the film company but the penalties would be less extreme than if the OP were to wilfully infringe the film companies copyright/trademark. By putting a notice on the poster the OP would acknowledge that they were aware the work was protected and went ahead anyway. That would result in a judgement of wilful infringement and higher penalties.

The film companies spend a lot of money making and promoting their movies. The OP is intending to make something that people will want primarily because of the time, effort and expense that the movie company invested into the film. If the business is successful the film companies would start to notice and may well take legal action for infringement.

Entering into a license agreement would solve this but you would need to work out a viable offer that makes it worth the film company's while doing the deal. Unfortunately the legal costs for doing IP licensing deals is quite high which would likely make the idea a non-starter.

You would also have to overcome the problem of image approvals. The films marketing company spent time and money creating the original posters and images associated with the film. They (hopefully) like the images/style they created and may not want your alternative vision for their movie. Most licensing agreements give the IP owner final approval and it would be a pain to waste time and money making something that they don't approve.

Public domain - the above problems go away if the movie is in the public domain but if the movie is so old and no longer being sold then would there really be much demand for posters?

Free - It makes no difference if the posters are given away free or paid for. You infringe copyright when you copy something, create a derivative work or distribute it.

If you search hard on Google you might find some film posters which were produced for film shows at the Royal College of Art in the 1960s. I know for a fact that none of them asked permission despite many becoming classics. I especially remember Ken Sequin's "An American in Paris" which was a line of bottles in sillhouette, 3 champagne bottles and a single coca cola bottle.
The use of IP as part of an educational course such as a college course would constitute "Fair Use" The same doesn't apply in the OP's case.

I think parody posters might work? You'd probably still need a fair degree of permission though.

Using copyrighted material is fine for parody - but only if you're not profiting from it.
Parody (like educational use) is another way in which the use of IP may be deemed to be "Fair Use". However there are problems here:
1. The work has to be a parody (see point 2)
2. Only a court can decide if the work is indeed a parody. The IP owner is free to take legal action for infringement and the matter would have to be settled in court. IP lawyers are very expensive!
3. A claim of "Fair Use" is defined by the supreme court as an affirmative defence. This means that the defendant bears the burden of raising and proving that his use was "fair" and not an infringement (even more costly defence if the onus is on you).
4. Not all countries have the concept of "Fair Use" so sales in that territory would be more troublesome as there wouldn't be any form of defence.

Conclusion
The use of IP is a complex legal field and the lawyers that specialise in it charge a lot of money. Doing licensing deals can be expensive but still less expensive than going to court to defend an infringement case. Put simply it is seldom viable to do a business based on using someone else's IP unless you are going to do big numbers and make a packet (and thus can afford the costs involved)... or you are based in China where they will have a hard time getting hold of you.

The best outcome for such a venture would be failure. If your idea was a failure the film company would likely not notice and nothing would happen. If it was successful the companies would notice and be far more likely to take action. Initially this might just be a Cease and Desist letter but if they thought there was money involved they may be more willing to take actual legal action.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atmosbob
If you search hard on Google you might find some film posters which were produced for film shows at the Royal College of Art in the 1960s. I know for a fact that none of them asked permission despite many becoming classics. I especially remember Ken Sequin's "An American in Paris" which was a line of bottles in sillhouette, 3 champagne bottles and a single coca cola bottle.

The use of IP as part of an educational course such as a college course would constitute "Fair Use" The same doesn't apply in the OP's case.

The RCA Film Society was run by the Common Rooms and was NOT part of the college course.

Try

http://bfi.mediastorehouse.com/pict...ason-at-bfi-southbank-30-oct-29-nov-2009.html

For another example.
 
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Actually it would be worse. If the IP owner takes the OP to court the only defence would be to claim that you didn't know it was copyright/a trademark. The court would still rule in favour of the film company but the penalties would be less extreme than if the OP were to wilfully infringe the film companies copyright/trademark. By putting a notice on the poster the OP would acknowledge that they were aware the work was protected and went ahead anyway. That would result in a judgement of wilful infringement and higher penalties.

The film companies spend a lot of money making and promoting their movies. The OP is intending to make something that people will want primarily because of the time, effort and expense that the movie company invested into the film. If the business is successful the film companies would start to notice and may well take legal action for infringement.

Entering into a license agreement would solve this but you would need to work out a viable offer that makes it worth the film company's while doing the deal. Unfortunately the legal costs for doing IP licensing deals is quite high which would likely make the idea a non-starter.

You would also have to overcome the problem of image approvals. The films marketing company spent time and money creating the original posters and images associated with the film. They (hopefully) like the images/style they created and may not want your alternative vision for their movie. Most licensing agreements give the IP owner final approval and it would be a pain to waste time and money making something that they don't approve.

I take your points and you obviously know what you're talking about, however, I was talking about the clear example of trade marks as opposed to copyright. I don't actually see any need to acknowledge the copyright, however, in terms of the trade marks, you should make it clear that the TMs belong to the film company in question and they are not being used in this case as an indicator of origin.

Using the example below of Robocop, the term is actually a registered trade mark, however it is only registered for videos, suggesting that the intention is to prevent counterfeiting. Another mark is registered for toys. The trade mark is not registered for printed materials like posters, and consequently the rights would be limited against someone using the mark in relation to posters.

They could potentially argue that the usage is taking unfair advantage of the other mark and that they have unregistered rights in the mark, which they may seek to enforce in relation to posters, but the risk is low that they would take notice of someone creating alternative posters. Having said that, the risk is there, and depending on the film company's stance, they may feel a disclaimer is irrelevant.

You could claim innocence, however, this is no defence to trade mark infringement, and neither in copyright, but as you acknowledge with the issue of knowledge only contributing to the extent of any damages award.

In terms of a derivative work, I don't feel that it would be considered to be so provided that the work was completely different in nature to the extent that the only item copied was the name of the film and details such as the names of the actors etc.

For instance the Robocop poster shown at the following link is so completely different from the original poster (http://www.impawards.com/1987/robocop.html as one example) that I do not believe it would be classed as a derivative work: http://www.screenjunkies.com/movies/movie-news/9-classic-movie-posters-reinvented/.

As a result, you would have to seek copyright in smaller elements of the original such as the name of the film. However, as mentioned, copyright would not vest in the name of the movie due to it being too short.

There is a possibility that there could be copyright in the typographical arrangement of the names of the actors/directors etc however, if this was completely changed in the revised poster this would not be a problem.

Of course it depends on the posters that the OP has in mind to create. My input was predicated on the OP creating posters entirely different from the originals, rather than derivative works. You may have of course have had similar works in mind which is where the difference of opinion may lie!

In some ways, I would have thought that releasing a set of original posters based on old movies may even renew interest in old movies benefiting the film companies to an extent. I don't necessarily see the film company having reasonable grounds for pursuing the creator on the basis of copyright.

In terms of the studio not liking an original take on a movie, then provided it wasn't defamatory, and simply paying homage, again, the risk would be low that the film company would have any grounds to take action against the creator. I acknowledge that that defamation is very much in the eye of the beholder in terms of alleging defamation though!

There may be issues surrounding trade mark infringement however as outlined above. Of course, in both circumstances, the film company could still take action even if unreasonable. I think I might contact the film company behind Robocop to see what their views would be. Not entirely sure I'd receive a response, but would be interesting to see their views.

In terms of your views on parody, I believe you're referring to US case law, whereas I believe a copyright claim would be more likely to be brought under UK law as I believe the OP is based in the UK.
 
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obscure

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I take your points and you obviously know what you're talking about, however, I was talking about the clear example of trade marks as opposed to copyright. I don't actually see any need to acknowledge the copyright, however, in terms of the trade marks, you should make it clear that the TMs belong to the film company in question and they are not being used in this case as an indicator of origin.
I don't think the Trademark owners would agree. Any lawyer worth his retainer would make the case that the Trademark clearly is being used to indicate origin or at least imply it, thus causing confusion in the mind of potential customers.

Using the example below of Robocop, the term is actually a registered trade mark, however it is only registered for videos, suggesting that the intention is to prevent counterfeiting. Another mark is registered for toys. The trade mark is not registered for printed materials like posters, and consequently the rights would be limited against someone using the mark in relation to posters.
While marks are technically limited to the business/industry they are registered for, well known marks enjoy protection beyond those limits.

According to the UK IPO (http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/tm/t-other/t-infringe.htm)
Where the registered mark has a significant reputation, infringement may also arise from the use of the same or a similar mark which, although not causing confusion, damages or takes unfair advantage of the reputation of the registered mark. This can occasionally arise from the use of the same or similar mark for goods or services which are dissimilar to those covered by the registration of the registered mark.
The only reason for the OP to use the mark is to clearly associate their poster with the film and the IP owners lawyers would probably feel they could make a case. If the posters are being done for an exhibition or some other reason that isn't directly commercial the risk is small but if the OP is planning to build a business doing this then the risk increases. If the business is successful the companies (many of whom sell the rights to make posters) could rightly claim that this was impacting them financially. In addition any licensor who has paid money for the rights would press the IP owners to take action to defend their rights under the license. A poster is no different from a duvet or pillow case when you are selling it using someone else's trademark to link your product back to the original product.

Ultimately it really boils down to risk. If the venture fails the risk is small but if it becomes successful the IP owners are more likely to notice (and several could club together) and initiate action. This will result in significant cost to the OP. Also, as you point out companies can and do initiate "unreasonable" action even if they think they couldn't win a case in court, on the basis that the other party won't be able to afford the very significant legal fees needed to defend an IP infringement case.

Out of interest, I have just emailed the UK agent for the 'Robocop' marks to ask politely whether they would be willing to give a view on their client's stance on the usage of the trade mark in the above poster.
I would be very interested to know their response. In the industry I work in (video games) the game publishers make substantial revenue from licensing out ancillary rights such as toys, posters, hints and tips books etc. They actively protect these rights and many actively seek out those who (they feel) are infringing on their IP.

Film companies also do the same. Many fans of movies want to take existing game engines and modify them to make a Star Wars/Alien/Blade Runner, or whatever else, fan game. Despite there being no financial gain involved the film companies routinely shut them down. This is "affectionately" referred to as "doing a Fox on them" as Fox do it so often.

I am happy to be proven wrong on this but sadly that can only be done at cost in a court by winning an infringement case.
 
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I don't think the Trademark owners would agree. Any lawyer worth his retainer would make the case that the Trademark clearly is being used to indicate origin or at least imply it, thus causing confusion in the mind of potential customers.

Of course a lawyer could frame it as trade mark infringement. However, the idea of the disclaimer is to disavow any intention to use the trade mark as an indicator of origin. But as I also mentioned, the disclaimer may not be taken into consideration by the film company.

obscure said:
While marks are technically limited to the business/industry they are registered for, well known marks enjoy protection beyond those limits.

Yes, of course. I mentioned that specifically in the subsequent paragraph to the one you quoted. The point is that although it is difficult to evince an intention from trade mark registration, it would be far easier to pursue a trade mark infringement action for identity/similarity than for unfair advantage/detriment. As the film company has chosen not to expand the ambit of the mark, it could be argued that they may not be interested in pursuing usage of the mark outside of the registered classes.

The film company would be foolish not to spend a little extra money on registering the mark in extra classes if they were interested in protecting the IP and licensing it for merchandise etc.

No response received from the trade mark agent unsurprisingly! Will chase him up.

Of course we agree that there is a risk of trade mark infringement and the OP would be at risk of a trade mark infringement action if they were to go ahead with creating the posters.
 
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Yes, I believe we are!
I've chased up the agent although I suspect that as it is simply a speculative enquiry he's unlikely to devote any time to it. Still, an interesting question (depending on your interests I suppose!).
Thanks for listing the firm - we do do a fair amount of work within the game industry, it must be said.
 
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