Facing a disciplinary and worried sick!!

[poppyrosie]

Hi All,

I need some advice desperately.....

I have worked as a manager for 25 years for a large national supermarket chain. In that time I have been present at lots of disciplinary hearings but never been the subject of one. Yesterday I was suspended pending a hearing. Let me explain the situation...

About 4 weeks ago we changed all of our computer and till systems which meant that the way we worked completely changed. I had a stocktake the night before by an external company who stupidly opened 4 packs of multipack cigarettes thinking they were single units. This was reported to my head office who (after admitting not really knowing what to do with them) instructed me to waste them out as they would recover the money from said company. That was all I was told.

Because of the massive change for everybody and issues arising meant that for about 3 weeks I worked about 60 hours each week and will admit to being stressed. I forgot about them as I was so busy with everything else going on but I walked into the office one night about a fortnight later and thought, I'll waste them out now. On the spur of the moment I said to the member of staff with me, do you want one of these as they're only going to go in the bin? I then thought I might as well have 2 of the other ones.

I honestly didn't think I was doing anything wrong. With our previous system I would have simply reduced them and put them back on sale. With the new system I couldn't do this because as far as it was concerned they had been removed from stock.

I know in hindsight that it was a stupid decision to make but I never thought about the consequences especially this member of staff telling others in the store.

So yesterday I was interviewed by my security department and fully admitted everything that happened. They did admit that I wasn't stealing from them but that it was more about poor decision making. They suspended me for wrongful application of systems and procedures leading to personal gain. I have never in my life stolen anything or been fraudulent in any way. Many times I have not even claimed petrol expenses I'm entitled to! Yesterday made me feel like a criminal as I had to give them the store keys, take my personal belongings and was escorted out.It is worth noting that the above is under the gross misconduct heading which could lead to dismissal.

I know it looks dodgy but it honestly wasn't. I could have easily pocketed them all for myself and said I'd thrown them in the bin. There are no cameras around the skip area so they couldn't prove that I hadn't.

It is also worth mentioning that the investigation took place immediately after taking one of my members of staff to a disciplinary for performance related issues. He had obviously heard about the incident and reported it afterwards. There are a few questions here....

Could he be seen as complicit in any way as he obviously knew about it but didn't report it until after he'd had a disciplinary where he received a final written warning?

Would I have been in this position had his disciplinary not occurred?

This was 3 and a half weeks later, if it was so important why was I not questioned about their whereabouts before?

Obviously I'm worried about this and have been up most of the night trying to find some advice. I do intend to get in touch with my union today as I realise I need representation but I can't wait for a few days for advice or I'll go out of my mind with worry. I am a single parent with 2 children and a mortgage and don't know how I'd cope if I was dismissed.

Any advice would be gratefully received

 

[NextPoint]

I'm no legal expert, but I would say the first thing to do is to make sure you don't say, sign or do anything until you get advice from your union, as anything you do, say or sign could be used against you. I get the feeling that you could claim in your defense that not enough training was given in the new procedures.

On the other hand, I work for a law firm and could see if any of the solicitors would be able to help or if they have contacts. Send me a PM if you would like to discuss.

 

[NextPoint]

I'm no legal expert, but I would say the first thing to do is to make sure you don't say, sign or do anything until you get advice from your union, as anything you do, say or sign could be used against you. I get the feeling that you could claim in your defense that not enough training was given in the new procedures.

On the other hand, I work for a law firm and could see if any of the solicitors would be able to help or if they have contacts. Send me a PM if you would like to discuss.

 

[poppyrosie]

Many thanks!

Do you think I need a solicitor?

I have been a member of my union for 25 years and never had the need to use them before. Not really sure what the process with them is.

 

[zhuwh]

I think You should ask a lawyer first.then decide if this thing is worth be easily solved ,or solved by law

 

[cqueen]

Wow a disciplinary for that??? what a joke.

 

[patientlady]

Hi Poppy
I am so sorry to hear about this and can only imagine how upsetting this is. I cannot help in any way and can only wonder how on earth this could have reached this level for what seems an honest mistake. Wishing you all the best and I am sure that when someone with any sense gets involved in this they will see some sense too.

 

[Logistika]

It must be worrying, but on the basis of the facts I believe you will be ok, as you have done nothing wrong in law.

As someone who used to be involved in stocktaking in the implementation of POS systems, your description of them being stupid is accurate, as they should not have interfered with the products.

Generally multipack cigarettes are annotated as "not to be sold individually", so loss sustained by the company is recoverable from the stocktakers.

You were instructed by your superiors to "waste them", and in the absence of more specific terms , it was down to you to waste them whatever way you wished, unless of course there are written procedures in place for disposing of non toxic products.

You are a long standing employee with no blemishes, and obviously have the right of a hearing, and if the hearing goes against you, you have the right of appeal to the company. Even after that you have the right of tribuneral in the the event the company procedures are unfair.

At this point, it is an unnecessary expense to engage a solicitor, as your union will provide better advice to you than a solicitor could. A union has their own specialist solicitors, unlike most solicitors offices, where they are general practictioners.

At any hearing, you have a right to be accompanied by a colleague or a union rep, so at first hearing ask the union to send their representative. Realistically, it will be the union who contacts the employer HR department and will liaise with them about a convenient hearing date. In the interim your rights of employment should not be affected.

It will not take them a few days to respond. Unions understand the stress in such situations and will spring into action with alacrity. Thats one of the reasons you pay your annual membership to them, ie its insurance against draconian employment practices. I'd also suggest that your union may take exception to your interview by the security department.

The only grounds for dismissal would be "loss of trust", but no sensible hearing would consider this to be the case given your long standing relationship, and the minor nature of the misdemeanour.

 

[Bri]

Someone with expertise in Employment law will be along soon I'm sure. Until then, there are many ifs & buts e.g. what was stopping a member of staff retrieving them from the bin after you had put the cigarettes in waste.What if it was a a bag of mixed peppers, would the same apply.
It really does sound that the member of staff that reported you was looking for some leverage around their own hearing.

If its any consolation as a manager you have the right to manage and by your account are a model and dedicated employee, very rare these days, unfortunately unless you have the backing of the store manager who witnesses and can vouch for your efforts and commitment to the company that will go unnoticed.

Get that union rep to contact you today, dont wait for them ,put your case to them and go into the hearing and tell the truth.

 

[Atilla]

Would this chain of stores have a zero tolerance ethics policy by any chance?

 

[sjbeale]

If you are in a union you should get support from them and a rep should be your companion at the meeting. Both of you should be taking notes in the meeting to try and record what is said to you (management should be doing this as well anyway but you need your own evidence). Your union rep should be proactive and help you (and sometimes they are not!), if they are not you need to get better help - an HR consultant, lawyer or even a capable friend.

It depends what evidence they have on you. You need to put your own case forward in the meeting.

If you are dismissed you have the right to appeal. If your appeal fails and you feel you have a good case for a tribunal then you should take this further.

 

[Paul Norman]

You do need proper legal advice, but as I spent some time as HR Director of a biggish gig, I offer the following comments:

1. To dismiss someone over this incident, against a previous good record, would be foolish. However, supermarkets, relative to many businesses, have a poor track record of good HR practise. However, I cannot imagine, based on what you have said, that this would be seen in law as a balanced and proportionate reaction.

2. The first disciplinary meeting should not be used to actually terminate your employment. That would be bad practise. But after it, you should have some indication of their intentions, and if it is as extreme as that, then consult a lawyer. As mentioned, until you have, do not agree to anything or sign anything. Confine your comments to a statement of facts, and be ready to ask them for facts, too.

3. Your union membership may cover you for the cost of a lawyer. If so, use it. If not, I honestly can say union involved is as often a complication as a help in these circumstances.

I would expect the process to end in a warning of some kind, but not dismissal, based on your description of events.

 

[Abbey Business Centres]

I honestly didn't think I was doing anything wrong. With our previous system I would have simply reduced them and put them back on sale. With the new system I couldn't do this because as far as it was concerned they had been removed from stock.

From my experience in working in a supermarket, I believe you aren't allowed to reduce cigarettes and put them back on sale? I may be wrong here but I thought it has something to do with the tax?

I do agree with others though - you were instructed to waste them and taking them instead wasn't a great idea. This was one of the first things i was told when i started my training and supermarkets are known to be strict on this.

Tbh, for someone with 25 years experience, you should have known better

James

 

[Sharpy]

If it were me, I would go into the disciplinary and be honest about everything and hope that they are sensible and you get away with just a warning.

Unfortunately in environments like the one you're in, any slight breech of trust ,however unintentional it may be, and any bad decisions you make will be jumped on swiftly!

Just face the music and plead your case as you've communicated it here and I'm sure you'll come through the other side.

 

[yorkshirejames]

Waste can mean many different things. Surely you're saving the company money by not putting them in the skip?

Agree that this certainly isn't gross misconduct. Surely for something to be theft (and hence misconduct) the item has to have some value to the person it has been taken from?

On the flip side - if they do sack you for this, then imagine the compensation you'll get awarded at tribunal (and we're not talking a couple of thousand, we're talking about being able to pay the mortgage off and pay for childrens' weddings)

 

[Atilla]

Waste or not, it wasn't for the OP to take. There are procedures in place - and these would also protect staff.

One of the majors operates a very robust ethics policy, unfortunately for the OP, his actions come wiithin the remit of the policy.

 

[Doodle-Noodle]

Contact your union and get help from them immediately, its what you pay them for. You probably are in breach of your employer's rules, shouldn't have done what you did and likely risk more than a slapped wrist. But at the end of the day, what's the worst that could happen? Don't let it make you ill, they should take into account your years of good service and hard work, and if they don't you're probably better of without them than they will be without you. Good luck!

 

[Bri]

Nothing more from the OP yet then?

 

[David Griffiths]

Nothing more from the OP yet then?

Hasn't even logged on since the original two posts.

 

[ccp consultancy]

OP - not wishing to scare you - but this does not look favourable - I know this having worked in the major retail supermarkets / stores for many a years, and having taken notes as the HR rep, when managers were dismissed for similar offences. Also seen tribunal view on same thing

It would be captured under the grazing element of your disciplinary proceedings and could result in dismissal

I would suggest contacting your union ASAP - but make sure that you have a good union rep, or you might as well go in by yourself.

You need to know the policy which they are disciplining you inside out / are there any precedents where other people have done similar and not been disciplined / dismissed

Any mitigating circumstances

Length of service may not be in your favour - as they might say - well after 25 years you know what is to be expected, although good previous record may help

If you wish for help / support then PM me

Clare