Facebook should put a Bing search box on their site and kill Google!

[An Oasis]

I'm kidding.

psst does that make you feel any better?

No, in that case I've still no idea what people are talking about.

 

[crossdaz]

I mean people come on UKBF asking whats the best computer,hosting or other services.

And look at the responses they get

 

[saxondale]

O
Whereas today she has the chance to put this question to thousands of people s

Dotty

the average circle amongst my friends is 60 "facebook" friends .... hardly thousands

 

[bdw]

In all these threads all I have tried to say is that for SOME people Facebook is the first port of call for SOME queries.

You are 100% correct. The problem is that the "some" amounts to a grain of sand on a beach compared to those who use Google.

Let's face it, FB is not a search engine, a recommendation engine, a forum, a directory or anything other than social networking website. It will not replace the search engines because that is not what it is there for.

What 'cracks me up' is the hostility of these posts.

Perhaps it is your support for FB, which verges on the evangelical at times that makes people hostile?

ADDED:I should have added that I have nothing against the use of FB for promoting goods and services. I just don't see it as properly targeted promotion.

.

 

[ORDERED WEB]

Depends on the business sector

Example my in wife's business sector - Wedding planning - customers & vendors are all using facebook, forums etc..

When sourcing a suppler, Facebook networking is a dream, 1 you get a recommendation, 2 you get to see the supplier, thier work.. you also get a feel for their work attitude

Same applies to me with photography - If I need a MUA or model, facebook is my friend

There is a flip side.. one MUA will never get booked again, as she was basically announcing that the night before a wedding she was out on the lash "slagging it"

 

[DotNetWebs]

the average circle amongst my friends is 60 "facebook" friends .... hardly thousands

I said people not 'Friends'.

i.e In our case over 5000 local people who have formed a community.

Within this community members will 'recognise' many people who are not a formal Facebook friends.

e.g friends of friends, name of other people they know such as other parents from their child's school, or even just people who's opinions they have come to respect through their previous posts in the group.

Recommendations from these people (especially when they confirm each other) can be almost as powerful from their ''real friends'.

Regards

Dotty

 

[DotNetWebs]

...Let's face it, FB is not a search engine, a recommendation engine, a forum, a directory or anything other than social networking website. It will not replace the search engines because that is not what it is there for...

Despite the fact that you are calling me 'Evangelical' I totally agree with this statement.

I have never said that Facbook will replace Google. Both platforms have their place and always will.

All I have said, many times now, is that for SOME queries people will now turn to Facbook before they turn to Google.

It may be that these represent a 'grain of sand' for some sectors or types of queries.

But for others, like local, I have concrete evidence that people are increasingly turning to Facebook.

If you were sat here next to me know I would happily prove that to you.

I do DO 'traditional' SEO as well. I have the no1 position for most of my targeted phrases.

I also [obviously] have the full stats from web web server and can compare these too my Facebook insights.

I know what I am talking about.

Regards

Dotty

 

[DotNetWebs]

...here is a flip side.. one MUA will never get booked again, as she was basically announcing that the night before a wedding she was out on the lash "slagging it"

Had too look up 'MUA'

I think she has made the fatal mistake of mixing her 'personal' and 'business' .

Regards

Dotty

 

[ORDERED WEB]

Had too look up 'MUA'

I think she has made the fatal mistake of mixing her 'personal' and 'business' .

Regards

Dotty

sorry - Make up artist...

For me this is the big issue with facebook... You are very exposed to the people you are friends with, and many do mix business and pleasure

 

[DotNetWebs]

sorry - Make up artist...

For me this is the big issue with facebook... You are very exposed to the people you are friends with, and many do mix business and pleasure

If she had done it right she would have a personal profile and a business page.

And importantly, not mixed the two.

Regards

Dotty

 

[danielmeade]

Let's face it, FB is not a search engine, a recommendation engine, a forum, a directory or anything other than social networking website. It will not replace the search engines because that is not what it is there for.

You may just be wrong there. There is no concrete evidence out there that this is actually happening but there has been talk of a Facebook powered search engine, and to be honest it makes sense.

Why? Well, with Facebook Connect hundreds of thousands of websites now link up to the platform. This will only continue to grow. Facebook knows your web habits inside and out, and in many cases it knows you inside out. It can therefore deliver to you more relevant and personalised results based on your interests and web activity. The same goes with ads, I anticipate that very soon sites external to Facebook will be able to serve relevant ads to their readers powered by the data captured on them. (FB Connect).

With this in mind, Facebook certainly could outplay Google and other rivals.

 

[jamie1183]

I certainly think there will be alot more from facebook in the future....

 

[Chunkford]

IMHO The big advantage Facebook has over Google is they are nurturing the new generation of users. You only have to watch the 'youngsters' using the internet to see it.
E.g
The first place they go to when they wake up is Facebook.
They use Facebook to communicate instead of MSN Chat or emails.
When they want something they ask others on Facebook.

User habits are changing and Google are aware of this, which is why on another thread being discussed, they are messing around with the SERPs trying to add that next cool feature and retain their user base and gain new users.

 

[ukbizbuzz]

What would happen if they did that?

Would they become `the internet` as far a most folks are concerned?

Would they kill Google?

Would that be good?

Discuss

use both sides of the paper

First, why kill Google? Who offers a better search result between Bing and Google?

If facebook did that then do not expect quality results and they would not become the "internet" as far as most folks are concerned.

Google will not be killed by this! They do not depend on facebook search results!

'Would that be good?" - This is debatable only if it will provide a healthy competition to Google but not as a way of supressing Google

 

[Esk247]

Like i say. Why is anyone wanting to kill Google at all? it will ruin the businesses of many people on this forum if they were to switch to facebook and besides who says facebook would offer a totally free search engine platform?

The only problem with Google is spam and the focus on US based results. Get rid of that and you enhance the quality of the service. Google is spending too much time trying to build other platforms that 90% of its users don't care about.

It's trying to be like Apple. Innovative, creative, clever, techy but it hasn't got the core product right yet.

 

[Jeff FV]

I think Place of Design has summed it up pretty well.

FaceBook (& Twitter) have worked (& continue to work) really well for us - they have generated business, both trade & retail, that SEO has not, and would not (its just not how people search for our product.)

I can see the two (G & F) diverging: Google will become the equivalent of an industrial estate - still brilliant for all those B2B searches: when we needed several rolls of bubble wrap - well, no one we know on FB could tell us that, its just not what our friends are into!! - but Google put us in touch with a good supplier, but if we wanted to find somewhere good to eat in London, within, say, a certain price range, FB would be better for answering that.

So, to borrow from a half remembered old ad, FaceBook will be there for the nicer things in life, things where a personal recommendation goes a long way, even if that recommendation is only from the friend of a friend of a friend.

Like so many things, its horses for courses, but FaceBook - perhaps for the things that people want rather than need - is big and only going to get bigger. If someone were asking me today about setting up an ecommerce shop, I'd tell them not to bother, but set up a FaceBook shop instead - you can't compete on the SEO front with big boys, but FaceBook shops are in their infancy and now is the time to get in on the ground floor.

Jeff

 

[DotNetWebs]

...FaceBook will be there for the nicer things in life...

Excellent post Jeff

But just to prove it's not only for the 'nicer things in like' - here is one from today:

http://www.facebook.com/horsham.uk/posts/126671950731519

As I type that post has had 34 replies and well over 5000 impressions - the vast majority of which have been to local people.

Now a smart dentist might react to this by realising there is a niche for offering a service for nervous patients (a bit like airlines do for nervous flyers).

If they were REALLY smart they might create a Facebook campaign and offer some of these people a free checkup once they have liked their page etc.

Assuming the service was good and meet the needs of the nervous patient - who do you think they are going to recommend next time a question like this is asked.?

Regards

Dotty

 

[DotNetWebs]

...I just don't see it as properly targeted promotion..

Have a look at my post above.

If a new dental practice was launching here tomorrow.

Which do you think would have the most chance of getting a few patients through the door in those first vital weeks of trading:

1. A new website on a new domain with zero spend on additional SEO or PPC

2. Or a [free] Facebook campaign that targetted our local population.

???

Regards

Dotty

 

[omnivore]

IMHO The big advantage Facebook has over Google is they are nurturing the new generation of users. You only have to watch the 'youngsters' using the internet to see it.
E.g
The first place they go to when they wake up is Facebook.
They use Facebook to communicate instead of MSN Chat or emails.
When they want something they ask others on Facebook.

User habits are changing and Google are aware of this, which is why on another thread being discussed, they are messing around with the SERPs trying to add that next cool feature and retain their user base and gain new users.

i think this is the crux of it

facebook is massive and growing fast and has key attributes that google does not have

google is already massive and has attributes that are very hard to replicate and comepete with

however the big issue with google is if you search for a plumber you get masses of irrittating spammy rubbish and no obvious EFFECTIVE way of filtering the results. if you asked your friends on facebook for a plumber, you speedily get reccomendations that are real and trustworthy.

i have done this myself recently with great success (and tried it on google with much frustration) facebook makes the business of keeping in contact with friends very easy (and building contacts very easy too) and so getting advice or tips for things like plumbers is very efficient.

linkedin does the same on a business level.

if in the future you can search on facebook for bing style results AND do the same amongst your facebook contacts and `like` minded other facebook users then you have powerful additional search opportunities that will increase the relavence of facebook as an internet hub

of course google will not crash and burn at the first impact of competition but they will have a job on their hands to react to facebook's growing relevence and reach

competition in this instance ought to be `good`

 

[DotNetWebs]

It will be certainly interesting to see how this evolves.

My prediction is that Facebook will eventually implement a search algorithm that returns 'Like-Based' results 'supplemented' by Bing Queries.

The binary nature of a 'Like' used in conjunction with all the other 'social graph' data that Facebook has available means could eventually have available to them an exceptionally powerful faceted search system that will give searchers an almost infinite number of options to filter their results.

Of course the 'Like-based' results will not be suitable for all queries and for these there will likely be ONLY Bing results returned.

Where does Google fit in to all this? IMO it will remain by far the best option for searching for on-page content. Facebook will become the best option for 'recommendation-based' results, and there will be an overlap for all the queries in between.

As you say - competition is a good thing.

Regards

Dott

 

[bdw]

As I type that post has had 34 replies and well over 5000 impressions

Not surprising considering really that it specifically asked for recommendations and there are roughly thirteen different ones being made from the 34 posts.

I am not saying it is wrong and questions like this are suited to Facebook. The problems is that businesses cannot promote themselves in FB through other people's recommendations. They can do this on search engines.

If I need something and I ask for recommendations on Facebook I may have to wait several hours for a good response. I can get this in seconds on a search engine. There is no real comparison.

 

[Jeff FV]

Another (possible) Achille's heel for Google is their use of a site's length of being online being a measure of authority and helping it up the rankings.

In most cases this is a good thing - going back to my bubble wrap analogy, the fact that a company has had an online presence for a number of years probably means that its a stable, reliable company worth doing business with. But if I'm looking for that affordable restaurant in London, I'm not really interested in what the place was like 2 years ago, I want to know what its like now - social media is more able to meet that demand.

I first came across this problem about a year ago - it was a saturday morning and England were playing Wales in the six nations that weekend and I wanted to find out the kick off time. Google was able to present me with many great match reports between the 2 sides for the last few years (a 3 year old match report was top of the search results) but I couldn't find out the kick off time anywhere.

Goggle isn't going away, but there will be things that Facebook/Twitter et al search will do better.

Jeff

 

[Esk247]

But you still can't search on Facebook.

I can't search for a restaurant in scarborough can i?

If i ask for recommendations i'll get 'bobs cafe, does a mean burger like init bruv' or 'chippy on falcon terrace' :|

Facebook is miles away and besides, like i keep saying, why would they make a search for british users? it will be for americans. Type in Restaurants in York and you'll get restaurants in New York.

 

[DotNetWebs]

...The problems is that businesses cannot promote themselves in FB through other people's recommendations. They can do this on search engines...

It's of course true that if they are not 'fit' to be recommended then they are unlikely to get recommended. But as I explained in the other 'dentists' post a smart business can react to the needs of of the 'group' and put themselves in position where they are more likely to get recomended.

...I may have to wait several hours for a good response. I can get this in seconds on a search engine. There is no real comparison...

Again this will be true for certain (currently most?) queries but as Facebook and the Pages/Groups grow the results will be returned faster and in great numbers.

Some of our queries are now returned in virtual real-time.

Regards

Dotty

 

[DotNetWebs]

Another (possible) Achille's heel for Google is their use of a site's length of being online being a measure of authority and helping it up the rankings....

100% agree hence my "Which do you think would have the most chance of getting a few patients through the door" question on a previous post.

As I said we have very good Google ranking for most of our subscribers and in the long run it brings them a lot of traffic.

BUT... in the short-term nothing can match Facebook!

Regards

Dotty

 

[omnivore]

But you still can't search on Facebook.

I can't search for a restaurant in scarborough can i?

If i ask for recommendations i'll get 'bobs cafe, does a mean burger like init bruv' or 'chippy on falcon terrace' :|

Facebook is miles away and besides, like i keep saying, why would they make a search for british users? it will be for americans. Type in Restaurants in York and you'll get restaurants in New York.

well that's the central issue of this thread isn't it ?
(clue is in the title)
`should they put a bing searchbox on the page ?`

if they can marry their ability to deliver peer group recc's with algo based relavence search (as two options say rather than integrated) do they have a killer combo?

also there is no reason to presume that they would not be able to deliver locally relevant search, google do and i believe they are american too arent they?

 

[Esk247]

well that's the central issue of this thread isn't it ?
(clue is in the title)
`should they put a bing searchbox on the page ?`

if they can marry their ability to deliver peer group recc's with algo based relavence search (as two options say rather than integrated) do they have a killer combo?

also there is no reason to presume that they would not be able to deliver locally relevant search, google do and i believe they are american too arent they?

well yes but i was answering the hypothesis directly about people searching for plumbers or dentists..when they dont.

but then you'd have to ask yourself the question as to whether people ever need a website? if they're going to have a business/personal profile that is searchable via the database e.g. product + location (shoes in middlesbrough)

still has an inability to expand on that though. Google can also do basic maths and answer questions directly such as how long is the river thames? etc etc.

 

[omnivore]

well yes but i was answering the hypothesis directly about people searching for plumbers or dentists..when they dont.

but then you'd have to ask yourself the question as to whether people ever need a website? if they're going to have a business/personal profile that is searchable via the database e.g. product + location (shoes in middlesbrough)

still has an inability to expand on that though. Google can also do basic maths and answer questions directly such as how long is the river thames? etc etc.

but they do
i did (as i mentioned earlier, i got a good plumber by asking folks on facebook) and someone else did same (dotty?)
the point is..can the site develop it's functionality beyond where it sits now to exploit its existing power (social networking) to leverage it's massive traffic flow for greater profit

the question is not about what facebook is NOW
it's about what it can be IN FUTURE

(they are not ranting caps by the way they are `highliting` ones)

 

[Esk247]

yup but it comes back to getting too big for your shoes and diverting attention away from your core business.

Search and Social Media are two different animals. Facebook won't have the ability to massage both businesses, it will try to develop search applications next but because they're such a large corporation they've missed the point of why people like them..for Social Media!

They could partner with Google perhaps..oh but wait..Google is too busy faffing around with Boutiques and Checkout services to even bother clearing spam from China. I don't think they've even checked there mail for the last few weeks, they're still busy at it in the workshop trying to build a time machine.

Google is for search
Facebook is for social

Jack of all trades, master of non springs to mind.

 

[omnivore]

yup but it comes back to getting too big for your shoes and diverting attention away from your core business.

Search and Social Media are two different animals. Facebook won't have the ability to massage both businesses, it will try to develop search applications next but because they're such a large corporation they've missed the point of why people like them..for Social Media!

They could partner with Google perhaps..oh but wait..Google is too busy faffing around with Boutiques and Checkout services to even bother clearing spam from China. I don't think they've even checked there mail for the last few weeks, they're still busy at it in the workshop trying to build a time machine.

Google is for search
Facebook is for social

Jack of all trades, master of non springs to mind.

no reason to suppose they couldn't mage that kind of development
i mean
on your own website you say you can do website design AND seo

and you state:-

`No Project Too Small or Too Big`

if thats true for you i'd say it's equally credible for them

 

[Esk247]

no reason to suppose they couldn't mage that kind of development
i mean
on your own website you say you can do website design AND seo

and you state:-

`No Project Too Small or Too Big`

if thats true for you i'd say it's equally credible for them

Ah but i outsource my SEO to the professionals

well if that's so, then Google should be good at dealing with spam shouldn't they, i mean, a company with that many employees should be able to keep on top of dodgy chinese websites..shame they seem to all be on a coffee break.

Facebook struggles to even deal with the amount of complaints it receives about dodgy profiles. They'll divert all of there attention to creating a search engine that will be relatively useless.

I'm sure it will work for american companies though..just not us brits.

 

[omnivore]

Ah but i outsource my SEO to the professionals

well if that's so, then Google should be good at dealing with spam shouldn't they, i mean, a company with that many employees should be able to keep on top of dodgy chinese websites..shame they seem to all be on a coffee break.

Facebook struggles to even deal with the amount of complaints it receives about dodgy profiles. They'll divert all of there attention to creating a search engine that will be relatively useless.

I'm sure it will work for american companies though..just not us brits.

 

[DotNetWebs]

...Google is for search...

and Mail, and Maps and a Mobile operating system etc. etc.

Google long since finished being 'just' a search engine.

Regards

Dotty

 

[Esk247]

and Mail, and Maps and a Mobile operating system etc. etc.

Google long since finished being 'just' a search engine.

Regards

Dotty

yes but look at what happens when they get involved in all of those things and take there eye of the core product..search.

the search engine develops massive spam problems as well as other difficulties and Google Mail..well..we all know how thats a haven for a spammers.

They're one of many mobile software companies. Microsoft is a bigger player and Bing is improving.

Again, another example, MicroSoft diversify in to virtually everything but the core product is an over priced, constantly under cyber attack, slow and ageing piece of fluff. How many times do you have to update windows every week? due to security flaws because they've taken there eye off the ball and tried to do EVERYTHING instead of focussing on software development.

 

[DotNetWebs]

...Google is for search
Facebook is for social...

But can't you see that 'social recommendations', which is what I believe will be the core of a Facebook search will be, ARE 'social'.

i.e Facebook will be leveraging the power of their core 'social' product to provide 'search' results based on peoples 'Likes'

I think the two companies' core products will complement each other and happily sit side-by-side (with some overlap).

i.e

If I want to search for On Page Content - I will use Google

If I want to search for Recommended or Popular products/services etc. - I will use Facebook.

And for some queries I may use BOTH platforms.

Regards

Dotty

 

[bdw]

Sometimes I use a kitchen knife as a screwdriver.

.

 

[DotNetWebs]

Sometimes I use a kitchen knife as a screwdriver.

.

Exactly - [in some situations] you are incapable of realising which is the right tool for the job.

Regards

Dotty

 

[bdw]

Actually I think it's you that is having that problem.

Kitchen knives can sometimes be used as screwdrivers but they ain't ever going to put Stanley out of business.

 

[DotNetWebs]

Actually I think it's you that is having that problem....

No its you. To continue the 'tool' analogy.

As far as promoting your clients' businesses:

You only have one tool in your toolbox. Google

I have two. Google AND Facebook


I am good at both and know when to use each one (and often both together)

You are good at Google but haven't yet [properly!] discovered Facebook (as a tool).

Regards

Dotty

 

[KidsBeeHappy]

No its you. To continue the 'tool' analogy.

As far as promoting your clients' businesses:

You only have one tool in your toolbox. Google

I have two. Google AND Facebook


I am good at both and know when to use each one (and often both together)

You are good at Google but haven't yet [properly!] discovered Facebook (as a tool).

Regards

Dotty

My daughter wants a girly nail party type thing for her birthday.
I don't do girly makeup
I need someone that organises parties to do this.
I didn't search google, search, local, places for birthday party people.
I went on facebook and put out a message to my local friends and those that I know have girls.

And this is me, that spends approx 90% of my waking time online and searches from google hundreds of time a day, and uses google search rather than bookmarks/favourites.

Its a change in my behaviour.
And I don't think i'm that a-typical.