Facebook - A Waste Of Money?

[Rhea Riis]

Hi Dave

Thank you for your reply.
My intention was to draw the attention to a delivery channel where you don't have to bother about the risk or costs. AND to point out that there is possibility for successful marketing through social media.
I consider this to be a debate about facebook, not about networks. As an aff.network we observe how the publishers deliver and can tell you about our observations because this provides the reader with insight you can't gain yourself and might be useful.


Rhea Riis
Partner-ads.com

 

[MartCactus]

Coincidentally we just did our first FB advertising in the past few days... we were inspired to try it (despite our doubts) by a client who ran a recruitment site who'd done very well from it.

The product we we're promoting is our ASP.net shopping cart software http://www.kartris.com which is pretty niche. We'd previously setup a FB page and did have a few dozen "likes" from people who we know are developers or end users of the software, ie these were proper likes.

Since our adverts have been running we've observed a few things
1) traffic to our site hasn't increased very much if at all.
2) we've got lots of likes - around 100+ for each 10 dollars spent
3) the people liking us are quite curious - mainly indian or pakistanis, often with links to dubai/UAE (not so strange as we have an office in Dubai as well as London). But many don't appear to be web developers or business owners - some are very attractive females, now I'm not wishing to generalise about web developers (being one myself), but from my experience (looking in the mirror each morning) they don't all look like models.

Its too early to tell the more medium term benefits of it, I'll report back later on that. I guess the main benefit so far has been that previously when people looked at our site we had only a few dozen likes... but these were from proper hardcore users in most cases. Now we appear much more popular. Is that worth money to us? - time will tell!

But certainly my gut feeling was that if people are looking for a particular thing to buy they go to google. They go to facebook to catchup with friends. As such google is going to be worth much more - more akin to the difference between cold calling and following up customers who'd made a sales enquiry with you first - a massive difference.

 

[directmedparts]

While not every customer providing is a great go with for Facebook promotion, I have seen a several number of organizations doing very well using Facebook ads to generate causes their website. In those situations, the Facebook ads price less per click on and less per transformation than Search engines. They may turn at a low price, but the decreased CPC more than makes up for it.

 

[JamieM]

Since our adverts have been running we've observed a few things
1) traffic to our site hasn't increased very much if at all.
2) we've got lots of likes - around 100+ for each 10 dollars spent
3) the people liking us are quite curious - mainly indian or pakistanis, often with links to dubai/UAE (not so strange as we have an office in Dubai as well as London). But many don't appear to be web developers or business owners - some are very attractive females, now I'm not wishing to generalise about web developers (being one myself), but from my experience (looking in the mirror each morning) they don't all look like models.

This sounds very suspicious. I'd love to see your insights. Can you do me a favour please? Can you PM me links to 5 profiles of very attractive females who have liked your page? No not so I can check them out , I genuinely would like to see them to see if they look like fake profiles.

We seen a similar situation with Facebook and fake profiles but the page was managed by a third party at the time so we had guessed maybe the likes were bought. With your story and another I seen recently I am starting to wonder if there is some connection to Facebook ads.

 

[IzzoNet]

I found this article interesting about General Motors decision to end advertising on Facebook because of a lack of response.

I trialled Facebook PPC marketing about 18 months ago and got some traffic and no return on the investment. Compared to Adwords and targetted banner advertising it was a huge flop.

Since then Facebook might have improved its targetting algorythms but I cannot see how advertising on free to use generic social media could possibly result in an increase in sales.

By far a more productive approach is to build a network of 'friends' for your brand to keep them informed of product releases, offers etc. And guess what, that costs you nothing except time

Hello,

The problem with Facebook, like others said, is that for the short term, it can be a waste of money. But for the long term, and if you know how to use it , it can bring you a lot of benefits and increase your incomes.

 

[MartCactus]

This sounds very suspicious. I'd love to see your insights. Can you do me a favour please? Can you PM me links to 5 profiles of very attractive females who have liked your page? No not so I can check them out , I genuinely would like to see them to see if they look like fake profiles.

We seen a similar situation with Facebook and fake profiles but the page was managed by a third party at the time so we had guessed maybe the likes were bought. With your story and another I seen recently I am starting to wonder if there is some connection to Facebook ads.

Best thing is to have a look at our page at http://www.freeaspnetcart.com - we've got the facebook plugin that shows a handful of people who've liked it... refresh it after a few minutes and you'll see another handful - from those you can get an idea of the typical punter who has "liked" us.

My business partner who setup the campaign did however say that there are a number of things you can target, and one he tried could be construed to be "fire your adverts at morons who click 'like' on anything". He's experimenting with other more targetted approaches too, so i'll update when we have more data.

 

[quikshop]

I have seen a several number of organizations doing very well using Facebook ads

Yet another poster who has supposedly seen several other organisations do well, but no first hand experience of successful Facebook PPC marketing.

It's all looking a bit thread-bare for those purporting to have seen FB PPC success without experiencing it themselves

As I said in the original OP, its undoubtedly a great medium for brand awareness if you can work the network in the right way, but as a PPC medium it is worthless. I am yet to be convinced otherwise by any of the indirect claims of success.

 

[Nuno]

I often wonder about the 'FB is great for branding' argument, especially when seen here.

My impression is the vast majority of people here work in micro industries, or by themselves, (I'm micro, under 10 employees, under £1m turnover).

I really don't see 'branding' as a valuable concept for micros to chase. People won't be buying from you because of your brand. In fact, I'd go further, and say it's a conceit: an unnecessary use of scarce resources to big yourself up, (not big your business up). Which would mean using FB for branding is also a waste of time and money.

There will be exceptions, there always are. I have a local high camp restaurant who does well out of continual FB wittering, but for most businesses I am skeptical.

 

[JamieM]

Best thing is to have a look at our page at http://www.freeaspnetcart.com - we've got the facebook plugin that shows a handful of people who've liked it... refresh it after a few minutes and you'll see another handful - from those you can get an idea of the typical punter who has "liked" us.

My business partner who setup the campaign did however say that there are a number of things you can target, and one he tried could be construed to be "fire your adverts at morons who click 'like' on anything". He's experimenting with other more targetted approaches too, so i'll update when we have more data.

Thanks for that.

I would recommend you stop your Facebook advertising immediately as there is some kind of click fraud going on. I looked at a number of those profiles and I am certain they are fake accounts. Have a look for yourself. Many are from Bangladesh, something we found in our previous case, and they have an unusual number of Likes and many of them are obscure and common between the accounts. If you spend some time looking at them in detail I think you will come to the same conclusion. If you look for patterns you will find them.

I am not sure how this fraud is playing out but someone must be gaining advantage somewhere.

I found some previous discussion about it here as well:

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1761132

 

[MartCactus]

Thanks for that.

I would recommend you stop your Facebook advertising immediately as there is some kind of click fraud going on. I looked at a number of those profiles and I am certain they are fake accounts. Have a look for yourself. Many are from Bangladesh, something we found in our previous case, and they have an unusual number of Likes and many of them are obscure and common between the accounts. If you spend some time looking at them in detail I think you will come to the same conclusion. If you look for patterns you will find them.

I am not sure how this fraud is playing out but someone must be gaining advantage somewhere.

I found some previous discussion about it here as well:

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1761132

We were targeting asia with one of our campaigns.

The adverts were purchased directly from facebook and these people aren't getting paid to click on them so I'm not sure there is fraud going on.

At last count this morning our spend had been a mere $32, and that had seen us get around 750 likes. My partner decided that when we hit 1000 he'll kill the asian campaign and target solely ASP.net group members.

I don't disagree that they are very curious. Some of them had likes for various death metal bands, and then a justin bieber like as well. They certainly have eclectic taste over there!

 

[quikshop]

The issue of Facebook click-fraud is well documented elsewhere; unlike Google who actively try to filter out the most obvious attempts at click-fraud, FB simply denies liability while hoovering up the extra revenue this fraud perpetrates.

 

[WHUK]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Facebook is one of the most powerful social networking website. It might not present you with immediate results but once you develop a network there, you will surely get more traffic to your website. Facebook is all about creating a brand awareness through networking. Gradually if you keep adding more people to your website, you will surely see the benefits. [/FONT]

 

[Esk247]

I often wonder about the 'FB is great for branding' argument, especially when seen here.

My impression is the vast majority of people here work in micro industries, or by themselves, (I'm micro, under 10 employees, under £1m turnover).

I really don't see 'branding' as a valuable concept for micros to chase. People won't be buying from you because of your brand. In fact, I'd go further, and say it's a conceit: an unnecessary use of scarce resources to big yourself up, (not big your business up). Which would mean using FB for branding is also a waste of time and money.

There will be exceptions, there always are. I have a local high camp restaurant who does well out of continual FB wittering, but for most businesses I am skeptical.

I must disagree

At first i despised everything FB and i'm not a fan of the PPC, the control panel is amature, the range of options miniscule and it really is not designed for big business. However, FB business pages, when used correctly, can offer a wealth of information on your customer base.

Lets take a look at some market leaders over on Facebook:

http://www.facebook.com/Firebox
http://www.facebook.com/homebase
http://www.facebook.com/Disney

Each picture on the Disney page seems to generate over 400 comments from followers.

 

[adela.salagean]

I found this article interesting about General Motors decision to ...and advertising on Facebook[/url] because of a lack of response.

I trialled Facebook PPC marketing about 18 months ago and got some traffic and no return on the investment. Compared to Adwords and targetted banner advertising it was a huge flop.

Since then Facebook might have improved its targetting algorythms but I cannot see how advertising on free to use generic social media could possibly result in an increase in sales.

By far a more productive approach is to build a network of 'friends' for your brand to keep them informed of product releases, offers etc. And guess what, that costs you nothing except time

I very much understand your frustration. e-Commerce websites are counting sales, not likes, because likes don't pay your bills, right?
My opinion is that you need to rethink the whole thing. Your main purpose on Facebook should not be to have as many fans as possible, but to GET YOUR BUYERS (who can be also your fans) TO RECOMMEND YOU, to share you, to talk about you. Yes, Facebook users are there to socially interact, not to shop. So they are not interested in your brand, in learning what you want to sell to them, BUT they are interested in what products their friends are buying, where they are buying them from!!!

<edit by mod as promotion>

Does that make more sense than to just grow your fan base?

 

[LinkBright Media]

Ok I admit being lazy here and I haven't read everyone else's replies. Just adding my own experience here. I now have over 8,200 'likes' on my business FB page and I only paid for FB advertising to get the ball rolling right at the beginning.

There's no point comparing PPC to FB advertising as you're not comparing apples with apples anymore. People in FB are not actively searching for your products, whereas PPC platform customers ARE. People on FB are being distracted by your ad and so not in the mood for buying. You're not going to increase sales with FB ads. You WILL increase your FB audience by advertising and linking to your FB page and so you can build a platform for POTENTIAL customers on FB, pretty much the same way as you build your newsletter list.

On the other hand I'm considering FB for a new business venture next year - I'll be able to target my audience with more accuracy than any PPC campaign, e.g. females age 25 to 40, status engaged, living in a particular city. I can't do that on Google Adwords but I can do it on FB. That's amazing pinpoint accuracy and will I hope serve me well in my next venture (customers in a certain area for my new range of bridal accesssories)

 

[Jayser100]

I haven't got the time to read this long thread so I'll be brief.

it is a total waste of time. Keep your money in your pocket or spend it on some nice text dofollow blog links. You'll get far better traffic and your site will benefit SEO wise even if they don't buy anything.

 

[towelradiatorstore]

I agree. I think that Facebook is a good way of branding your image and creating a product 'culture', but it may not result in actual sales. Also, usually people will 'like' you on Facebook after buying the product rather than before, which may or may not be helpful.

 

[yourmajesty]

It depends what you are doing on facebook. If you are a small business with lots of friends new business ventures can work well to advertising to your current friends by way of a facebook post. Anyway that works for me.

 

[lesliedocherty]

facebook works well for us, but our audience is younger and all quite social media savvy, i like to think we use it well, we do put quite a bit into it, judge for yourself

http://www.facebook.com/fatbuddhastore

 

[JamieM]

facebook works well for us, but our audience is younger and all quite social media savvy, i like to think we use it well, we do put quite a bit into it, judge for yourself

http://www.facebook.com/fatbuddhastore

Hi Leslie,

Page looks great! Have you noticed any reduction in 'reach' since the Promote button was introduced?

 

[lesliedocherty]

hi, yes, noticed reach tailing of last week, averaging about 7% just now, used to get about 12%

 

[JamieM]

hi, yes, noticed reach tailing of last week, averaging about 7% just now, used to get about 12%

Thanks. I've seen a lot of mixed views on this. I think it would be a logical move by Facebook in order to encourage use of the Promote feature and I suspect they have tweaked the algorithm a little. It's probably a bit early to say though so I'll keep my eye on the stats. It will be annoying if it does go down further as it is already frustratingly low.