Extra vehicle - how does it work on expenses?

[paulears]

I'm a sole trader. I have a van, and for personal use, a tiny Suzuki Jimney. I'm starting to do a number of video jobs (with a few sound ones) where equipment is more limited in size and quantity, and they're in 'posher' venues where the van stands out like a sore thumb. I'm also doing quite a few music festivals this summer, and having got stuck twice in the van, I'm thinking of alternatives. The little Suzuki would never get stuck, but I can't get the flight cases in it because it's just tiny. My question is about buying a Range Rover. I know all the tales of woe on these motors, but one posh enough for the hotels where I can park one near the door, rather than round the back with the other commercial vehicles would be good. Due to the horrible fuel consumption, I can't see me using it for social/private motoring, so would continue with the Suzuki. How does it work (or not) with business fuel - insurance, tax etc for a second vehicle that's not a commercial vehicle. I would like to consider it a business purchase, because it would probably be used for about 25% of my business mileage - it's not big enough for bigger jobs, but those are van friendly anyway. Today, I'm doing a funeral - a service, then the crematorium (outside, not inside) and then what will be a reunion for past colleagues of the fella who has past away - so it's a collect faces and a few stories event. My van sticks out quite horribly when parked at the crematorium, and is hopeless to park at the service - so a second vehicle would make sense. Today I will have to park quite a way from both venues and walk with quite heavy kit and I'm getting too old for the route march.

I'm willing to put my money into the purchase, but the running costs of the thing worry me. I'd like to do more of these events, but the van is making things tricky.

I've only ever had a van, so don't know how business users deal with cars.

 

[bodgitt&scarperLTD]

Easiest way is to keep a record of business miles and claim them at the current allowance of 45p/mile against tax.

Other way is to claim a percentage of all expenses for this vehicle against tax- your accountant will know how far you can push it.

 

[WaveJumper]

I would never buy a Range Rover I have too many friends who's 4x4's have spent more time back at the dealers than on their own drive. I use a Toyota Land Cruiser, however whats the worst that can happen using a good looking van, you get stuck in a field and have to be pulled out by a tractor for the additional costs involved in running a serious 4x4 I would stick to the van much more cost effective. Get a nice new Ford Transit they look cool

 

[paulears]

I'm happy with the Vivaro. The n ew Transit is a tiny bit different in space - so two cases across the back won't fit, and a repack won't work, so when the Vivaro needs replacing, I think it will be another. I know all about the Land Rover issues, but there are a couple locally that would work price wise, and there would be no real problem with it being off the road for a bit.

On the percentage accountancy front - I keep a logbook of all the use of the van, so if I did the same with the car, and could prove, say, 8000 miles business and 2000 personal - would that sound reasonable to say that's 80% of the total costs, or is that just too simplistic? Looking at the diary, we're doing a lot of repeat jobs this summer, where the bulk of the equipment would stay in place, with just small bits and pieces going in and out, and I'd save on parking distance (and a bit of cost) as I cannot get the van under a barrier to the nearby car park.

 

[Stedurham]

Why not but a lr discovery commercial then. Please tho do look into car you buy had one and got rid of within a year as spent more time getting repaired than actually running. Dealers near me wouldn't even get a px value they just didn't want it got offered thousands under cap poor

 

[bodgitt&scarperLTD]

I'm happy with the Vivaro. The n ew Transit is a tiny bit different in space - so two cases across the back won't fit, and a repack won't work, so when the Vivaro needs replacing, I think it will be another. I know all about the Land Rover issues, but there are a couple locally that would work price wise, and there would be no real problem with it being off the road for a bit.

On the percentage accountancy front - I keep a logbook of all the use of the van, so if I did the same with the car, and could prove, say, 8000 miles business and 2000 personal - would that sound reasonable to say that's 80% of the total costs, or is that just too simplistic?

As I understand it that's how it works. I don't even keep records of mileage, but I don't take the piss. 100% claimed on the Transit tippers, 80% on the pickup and 80% on the van. I can only drive one vehicle at a time for personal use. As you already have a personal vehicle that you've claimed nothing for, claiming a high percent of the total as business will be no problem especially if you keep mileage logs.

If the Rangie will cost you more than 45p/mile to run, claim expenses/diesel. Otherwise claim 45p/mile and keep a log.

I claim expenses/diesel as the vehicles are thirsty as we spend a lot of time offroad and towing.

 

[paulears]

Ah - I did realise the mileage was able to be substituted with actual fuel cost, which could work. Cheers for the info folks.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

I have had 2 x range rover classics,1 x freelander 1, 1 3.9 discovery and 1 freelander 2, none of the silly all electric beasties, all were reliable although the Range rovers and Discovery ran at 14-18 mpg but i do have a rather heavy foot

For your work i would suggest the best as a freelander 2, average 40 plus to the gallon, loads of space inside with the rear seats down, now fully depreciated and few electronic gisbo's to go wrong and low faults possibly the best land rover after the Defender. series

 

[paulears]

I hadn’t thought about a freelander? What are they like with weight in the back on soft grass? Transits and vivaros with front wheel drive are hopeless. Could be worth a look. Back seat isn’t important.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

If your getting a Land Rover just lease it so you can give it back when something big makes a big puff of smoke and lots of lights come on !
It would be more advantageous to lease two for when one of them is not working

A nice L200 pick up with an enclosed canopy ?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

I hadn’t thought about a freelander? What are they like with weight in the back on soft grass? Transits and vivaros with front wheel drive are hopeless. Could be worth a look. Back seat isn’t important.

The freelander 2 is great offroad but dont get the base model like i did as only continmental make the tyres for it whilst the other versions have larger wheels and a large range of tyre makes and types

Discontinued about 3 years ago and the new model replacement the Discovery sport whilst based upon the same running gear i dont think has the same large rear space or large rear door size

 

[paulears]

One of my colleague drives a pickup - and it's good with cases, but keeping them dry is a real pain. he tried the hard top but for some reason didn't get on with it. I'll ask him why?

Not sure about leasing because looking at the state of the van, in and out, the penalties would hurt.

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

I reckon you should look into a pickup with a canopy on the back Paul. Not an L200 though...a proper one (like my Ford Ranger).
The L200 still looks a bit "worky" for what you describe. The Ranger (IMHO) looks a lot classier, and is driven by the architects and site managers rather than the labourers, if you see the parallel I'm trying to make. With a hardtop canopy, it will be absolutely fine for carrying gear, although of course not as much as a van, and inside even when fully loaded, it feels like driving a high-spec car.
Get a proper canopy and get it fitted right, and it will be dry as a bone inside.

Whatever you do, don't buy a Mercedes X-Class.

 

[paulears]

Looks like I need to look into pickups - they'd also I assume be commercial vehicles so I have the VAT reclaimable. I don't think VAT is reclaimable on a car, is it?

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

Looks like I need to look into pickups - they'd also I assume be commercial vehicles so I have the VAT reclaimable. I don't think VAT is reclaimable on a car, is it?

A car would have to have had VAT on it from the first time it sold, but pickups are a bit of a grey area. Generally, as I understand it at least, there are vehicles which are commercial, which will have VAT on it, and others which are "mixed use" which are below the weight limit (2,040kg I think...?) which may or may not have VAT on them, subject to it having being first sold with VAT.

All but the base model Ford Ranger XLT are above the limit, and so are full commercial vehicles. The top spec Wildtrak one (which I have - very nice) will have VAT and you can potentially reclaim it.
More lightweight vehicles like the L200 and Navara generally won't have VAT, and that's why they are cheaper. Those are more to appeal to the non-commercial type of user who is getting on the trend of having a pickup. I don't know enough about the Hilux to comment on that one.

I would buy a Ranger. In fact, I did. I don't carry gear, just a Doberman and wanted to be able to take my dog everywhere, and still have room for prams and all the gubbins that goes with taking 2 kids anywhere. I wasn't allowed a van....but I was allowed a pickup because inside the experience for the wife is the same as if we were travelling in a car.

Are you buying new, used, cash, finance?

 

[bodgitt&scarperLTD]

Range Rovers depreciate like a stone. You're not doing many miles- have you considered a ten year old model, bought cheap, on a private plate? The facelifts are subtle, most wouldn't even twig.

 

[bodgitt&scarperLTD]

The other 'out there' Landy option is a Discovery commercial, but they can be hard to find.

 

[1christopher]

Nene Overland do commercial conversions of all sorts... Helps solve the Vat issue.

https://www.neneoverland.co.uk/nene-ut90/

https://www.neneoverland.co.uk/vehicle-sales/?body_style=commercial&order=make|ASC

 

[paulears]

I've just looked and for a lot less than I imagined, I can get a sport for twelve grand or thereabouts. Not really sure if I trust an older one with 90K+ on the clock. My van is around that now, and buying something with that many miles seems risky. Not really sure what to do now.

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

Don't get a Sport. Its not a proper Range Rover. Chassis off the Disco.
You might as well just get a Disco which would be cheaper, and have better load space.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

The higher spec the RR the more potential for electronic problems, they have a bad reputation for faults , seldom mechanical but more often electrical. People who spend upwards of £70K dont like one specker out of 8 or more not working properly

ps they dont have Chassis anymore they went out with the P38 i think and that was a monster problem with air suspension