Everyone remember: Bebo

[MASSEY]

They might get more clicks but it's the conversions that will kill them because people are not going there to buy stuff.
It would be nice if a credible alternative to google came about but I don't think facebook is it?

Yes good point. People will be less likely to advertise if the clicks are accidental or more in peoples faces promting more clicking.

It's pretty much proven that facebook users are more interested in looking at what their friends and family are up to, but there are still exceptions and money to be made.

 

[MuffinMan]

MySpace is the best next example for sure.

 

[Esk247]

Well, you can see how NOT to advertise over on Bebo <<< hint for anyone wanting to start up a profile website, don't put your adverts like their homepage, looks naff.

There needs to be an alternative to Google but what works? what makes money and what platform is really simple for people to use?

I think there is a case for a smaller variant of Google or Facebook that is operated within the UK only. E.g. all search and documents are UK based from British websites so that you don't get american nonsense and spam drifting in to your searches.

Even when you have UK Only ticked on Google it still chucks in some random american website that looks like a throw back to the 90s <<< what is it with american websites? why do they look so trashy!

 

[JamieM]

Exactly

Facebook in particular have really changed the game.

Facebook is now more than just a 'social network' it is a platform in it's own right.

It also has approaching 600 millions users, the majority of which are regular users who have registered with their real names.

I am not saying it will be around for ever but it is much more engrained into people's daily life than anything that has come before it so it is a different league to the likes of MySpace or anything else that has come before it.

Regards

Dotty

Agreed. I think Facebook should be compared more closely to Microsoft than other social networking sites.

I think the big risk for Facebook is when they float and are under more pressure to become profitable. If they lose Zuckerberg they might be in trouble and I can't see him staying long after a flotation.

 

[Esk247]

Floating a business is big risk. Lots go under very quickly after doing so. The control shifts from the consumer to the share holders << BAD BAD BAD!

 

[Liybpg]

Facebook will never ever charge to use, I don't know where you got that from.

So you're saying Facebook and Youtube will become too big therefore making even more money and that won't workout?

Of course Google are probably just going to abandon Youtube when it gets too busy, noone likes that many people on there site, and as for Facebook - they're forecast to turnover $1 billion this year (from advertising) but i'm sure they won't be able to find the hosting so they will go aswell.

Facebook is free and always will be, and it will be around for a very very long time, and the same with Youtube - now there advertising is in place they are becoming very profitable.

I'm sorry but your comment was incredibly stupid.

You clearly have no idea what technological challenges they face and how much money they can actually make from it. Plus you can get your facts right as well, Facebook are predicting $2bn turnover, not $1bn.

YouTube and Facebook are very successful websites, there is not questions that they are not. The real issue is: will they make any serious money out of it? They might and they might not. Google is about the only company who managed to make serious money from advertising and it is because people click on their ads a lot as they are relevant to their searches. I have never clicked on an ad on facebook and yet, my account is being valued at $100 (as per $50bn valuation and 500m users).

There is a lot of ambiguity around internet ventures, if you think that they are secure and will work for sure, refer to the dot com bubble. People were not much stupider 10 years ago and see what happened.

I would treat those businesses with caution and 'incredibly stupid' would be to blindly believe in their imminent success.

 

[An Oasis]

SMN = pump and dump anyone who can't see the trends is blind or very stupid. The only way forward for SMN is as part of integrated system i.e. adding value. It's a side show...

 

[MASSEY]

SMN = pump and dump anyone who can't see the trends is blind or very stupid. The only way forward for SMN is as part of integrated system i.e. adding value. It's a side show...

Thats what FB have done though, intergrating search engine Bing. They are trying to be a search provider as well.

 

[J-Wholesale]

On the subject of facebook, interesting article from yesterday: Why I Don't Use Facebook.

 

[gh05]

The fact that bebo has a 'log in with Facebook' option says it all!!

 

[crossdaz]

On the subject of facebook, interesting article from yesterday: Why I Don't Use Facebook.

I'd forgotten the aol keyword thing - wonder why that never caught on?

 

[Liybpg]

On the subject of facebook, interesting article from yesterday: Why I Don't Use Facebook.

Couldn't make sense of the article. It seems that he is missing the point of facebook - its simplicity and basically what he's saying that it is bad and he would rather create his website. Well good for him, but I am not going to have 150 websites of my friends bookmarked to keep a contact with them.

I think facebook is a good tool, I just don't believe it's a money making tool.

 

[DotNetWebs]

...It seems that he is missing the point of facebook...

Totally

Regards

Dotty

 

[MASSEY]

Couldn't make sense of the article. It seems that he is missing the point of facebook - its simplicity and basically what he's saying that it is bad and he would rather create his website. Well good for him, but I am not going to have 150 websites of my friends bookmarked to keep a contact with them.

I think facebook is a good tool, I just don't believe it's a money making tool.

I agree, he is out of his depth with that article.

 

[mike.davis]

You clearly have no idea what technological challenges they face and how much money they can actually make from it. Plus you can get your facts right as well, Facebook are predicting $2bn turnover, not $1bn.

YouTube and Facebook are very successful websites, there is not questions that they are not. The real issue is: will they make any serious money out of it? They might and they might not. Google is about the only company who managed to make serious money from advertising and it is because people click on their ads a lot as they are relevant to their searches. I have never clicked on an ad on facebook and yet, my account is being valued at $100 (as per $50bn valuation and 500m users).

There is a lot of ambiguity around internet ventures, if you think that they are secure and will work for sure, refer to the dot com bubble. People were not much stupider 10 years ago and see what happened.

I would treat those businesses with caution and 'incredibly stupid' would be to blindly believe in their imminent success.

Well thanks for proving my point even more with your first point, also did any of the companies that suffered with the dot com bubble have half a billion users?

What are you treating with caution, they are making money, they are making more money than before, more people are using them than ever before - infact both of them are still growing rapidly, if you consider these not candidates for future success then I would love to see where you have your money.

They might get more clicks but it's the conversions that will kill them because people are not going there to buy stuff.
It would be nice if a credible alternative to google came about but I don't think facebook is it?

Facebook will have a lot of tricks up there sleeves, theres rumors of a search system based roughly on the 'like' system, and of course I'm sure Facebook marketplace will further develop.

 

[Esk247]

but if Facebook are going to be thinking of a search engine...i mean..really? can they be so daring as to try such a risky project?

Search engines are a difficult beast. Just look at how the worlds biggest search engine, Google, struggles with spam and still has the majority of people advertising in the search results for free just by tweaking web content.

The worry with these big companies is that they over expand or get in to sectors that they don't fully understand all in the name of creating the next big thing on the internet.

Facebook could find a search engine becoming its downfall. If it doesn't work, and doesn't work really well, it will fail. Cuil failed, dozens of others have failed no matter how much they've thrown at it.

Google wins only because it has the footfall, like ebay. Lots of problems with both platforms, lots of people complaining, lots of unhappy customers, but they go by volume. It's maintaining those numbers when something more dedicated comes along that's the problem and facebook could take there eye off the ball like MySpace did.

 

[Liybpg]

... I would love to see where you have your money.

Heh funny you should say that.
I have just invested about £450 into a company which works in Africa - made about £4 so far!

Facebook is a good company, but not at $50bn.

 

[An Oasis]

Thats what FB have done though, intergrating search engine Bing. They are trying to be a search provider as well.

Whoopy do that really adds value, hell I could do that...

 

[GaryF]

Facebook's only just getting rolling really. They still can capture loads more people yet. It's managed to get people so used to using it, they almost can't live without it, a bit like T.V. I think it will eventually become it's own version of the internet.

The only way it will fail anytime soon is if it cocks up.

 

[Bes]

You clearly have no idea what technological challenges they face and how much money they can actually make from it.

I have a good idea of the technological challenges being an IT consultant, and let me tell you, the technological challenges (i.e keeping the data 'for ever'), and service availability are minor. Storage is dirt cheap and getting cheaper by the day.

 

[crossdaz]

Facebook will have a lot of tricks up there sleeves, theres rumors of a search system based roughly on the 'like' system, and of course I'm sure Facebook marketplace will further develop.

Well it will be interesting to see what they do with all the cash after they have floated. Personally I'd be less cynical if they proved they had a business model before rushing to sell shares?

More hype today - another article with very misleading information and unsubstantiated claims:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...s-Facebook-investment-boosts-his-fortune.html

 

[DotNetWebs]

...Search engines are a difficult beast. Just look at how the worlds biggest search engine, Google, struggles with spam and still has the majority of people advertising in the search results for free just by tweaking web content....

I have made several posts here previously why I think a 'social recommendation engine", i.e a search engine based on 'Likes' should be no harder to control 'spam' than the existing Page-Rank-Based Google system.

I also made this post yesterday which [IMO] is well worth a read:

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=189792

Regards

Dotty

 

[DotNetWebs]

...Google wins only because it has the footfall...

I think it is a dangerous assumption to think that Google will be king forever.

Here's a quote from an excellent article on the BBC website today:

'For children e-mail is "something your dad does" and their search engine of choice is as likely to be YouTube as Google.'

Profile update: Your teacher has now joined Facebook

Regards

Dotty

 

[Esk247]

I agree that Google won't be around forever. Neither will Ebay, however, it works for the moment and is internationally recognised. I think it's even in the dictionary? e.g. you google something.

Does the Page Rank system of Google stop spam? i can't seem to understand how it works. I simply want to search on google for a pair of slippers but it throws up Slippers Kippers of Cornwall or Slippers China Made for You Happy Face.com.

Facebook suffers the same problem with its current search system. It doesn't work unless you live in the USA as it doesn't recognise certain UK locations, colleges or work places. It seems to enjoy archiving american stuff but British profiles are kept well down the list when you search for something.

I know america is the biggest potential market 250 odd million in comparison to our 50 odd million population but still..as a UK user all of these platforms lack a more local feel.

 

[DotNetWebs]

...Facebook suffers the same problem with its current search system. It doesn't work unless you live in the USA as it doesn't recognise certain UK locations, colleges or work places. It seems to enjoy archiving american stuff but British profiles are kept well down the list when you search for something....

I agree.

But I can also see that way they are integrating with so much other data at the moment means that most of these problems could easily be algorithmically solved.

A huge amount of key talent has left Google for Facebook recently and you can bet they are working on some of these challenges.

Regards

Dotty

 

[Olly Culverhouse]

Revenue of 2 billion (revenue - not profit). Actual profit - none. I don't call that a business model?

The current astronomical valuation comes from a 1% investment which is leading up to a stock market float. The float will be successful (because the business has been hyped out of all proportion) and that investment will be cashed in very quickly.

The business model is advertising and online games, both are well proven models.

Facebook doesn't have to divulge its revenue or profit so the numbers that are out there are pure guesswork. No-one knows for sure how much revenue Facebook have made however it is easier to work out then the profit, which is why no profit numbers have emerged.

It was more of a TV analogy than a prediction. My point was that youtube can make money as a broadcaster because people already pay for TV content - BBC, SKY and HBO are just three examples.

However, Facebook already sells advertising and it still doesn't make any money so what do you think they are going to do that actually does. They can either go behind a paywall or think of a unique way of monetizing a website that nobody has thought of yet?

Again, no-one knows how much money they are making. It has been rumoured that Facebook made $2 billion last year which I would say is a sizeable chunk.

The difference between Facebook advertising and Google advertising is that Facebook is a lot more targeted. When you place adverts with Facebook you can target specific age ranges, hobbies, martial status and near enough every aspect of someone's profile. The best you can do with Google advertising is location.

 

[crossdaz]

Again, no-one knows how much money they are making. It has been rumoured that Facebook made $2 billion last year which I would say is a sizeable chunk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook

I've picked out figures to suit my view but I'm not making stuff up like you are.

Facebook is forecast to hit a revenue figure of $2 billion this year. The two words to focus on here are forecast and revenue.

Facebook has 1,700 employees and offices in 12 countries. What their banwidth cost is I can only guess but it's going to be very high.

Performance of advertising on Facebook compared to other channels is widely recognised in the industry as being very poor. For instance click through on banner ads is about 400 clicks for every one million pages compared to Google's 80,000 clicks for every one million searches.
Targeted web advertising is a mature technology and Google dominate it.

 

[Esk247]

Facebook should stick to being facebook. Social media is what they're good at so they should stick to doing that. It's not like they've perfected it, the system has holes, errors, search problems, profile problems, safety and security flaws.

Google need to get back to thinking about search engines instead of designing online shops.

 

[trebor8]

Facebook has 1/8th of the population of internet users

Goldman Sachs invest 450m, 1% of shares, valuing Facebook at 50bn

As the figures get higher and higher, i can't help thinking, is this sustainable.

As internet users, our loyalties are pretty fickle. After all it only takes an unknown Social network with a unique concept to knock it off it's perch and then the free fall will begin

I'm sure this is another dot com bubble waiting to burst

 

[TomUK]

LOL do people really think facebook's demise will come from another social network knocking it off its spot?????? How ignorant and misinformed are some of you?

Facebook is becoming less a platform or site, and more an actual way of communicating online. To facebook, will be the way we socialise and communicate online, it has 500m (and growing) users who spend a ridicukous amount of time on the site,,

The only way facebook will fall is if they **** it up themsleves, which... is NOT going to happen, watch any interview with mark, sean parker any other director, and they all know exactly where facebook is going and what it will provide

Facebook will most likely be around longer then any of us, and will define digital social interactions,

I love it personally, and think online communication is only going to replace more and more real life interaction, and the trends show this

 

[trebor8]

LOL do people really think facebook's demise will come from another social network knocking it off its spot?????? How ignorant and misinformed are some of you?

The only way facebook will fall is if they **** it up themsleves, which... is NOT going to happen, watch any interview with mark, sean parker any other director, and they all know exactly where facebook is going and what it will provide
s

Then its going to be interesting to see how Facebook is going to evolve from it's current entity

 

[TomUK]

Facebook doesn't need to evolve to much more than it currently is??? All that will change will be more contol over how our data is shared (users decide what information is shared with who), and a structuring of our friends IMO

Facebook (besides facebook connect, apps etc), in its main product, will just as much try to replicate real interactions, online.

Networks don't grow linearly they grow exponantially (last year facebook had 250m, now it has 500m users), hence the bigger a network the harder it is to fall. Sean parker (napster, facebook, spotify), has some good interviews explaining why facebook is so dominant and on networks

 

[Esk247]

Facebook doesn't need to evolve to much more than it currently is??? All that will change will be more contol over how our data is shared (users decide what information is shared with who), and a structuring of our friends IMO

Facebook (besides facebook connect, apps etc), in its main product, will just as much try to replicate real interactions, online.

Networks don't grow linearly they grow exponantially (last year facebook had 250m, now it has 500m users), hence the bigger a network the harder it is to fall. Sean parker (napster, facebook, spotify), has some good interviews explaining why facebook is so dominant and on networks

But Facebook still has major flaws. The search function doesn't work. I think it's the same for Twitter. They're all US based engines, they pull out US based profiles first. The Brits are lost among millions of US profiles. I would assume it was even worse for someone based in New Zealand or Ireland << fewer profiles.

If Facebook gently tweaks what it already has then it can continue to dominate. Think of Sir Alex Ferguson at Man Utd. He didn't rip his team to pieces at the end of every season and put out a new squad, he gently tweaked the squad, improved on areas they were weak in, kept the original backbone of the squad (Ferdinand, Scholes, Giggs) but added new players to improve the team. This is what Facebook should do, forget about being the next big search engine, over crowded market or what. Just make your social media system better, more advanced, more user friendly.

I can't use Facebook, i've tried, i've got a profile but its of no use to me what so ever because i don't understand it. I only have a small network of actual friends and i don't care what they've had for tea or if they're watching Corrie.

 

[trebor8]

Networks don't grow linearly they grow exponantially (last year facebook had 250m, now it has 500m users), hence the bigger a network the harder it is to fall.

Didn't the banks have the same line of thought.

I can't see facebook the same in 5-10yrs.
The world moves on and attitudes change and facebook will need to move with it in order to be where it is now. There's always something else/better just waiting around the corner.

 

[miras]

I agree with most of the comments made about everything having a shelf life. Certainly they have changed the way we communicate and Facebook seems to go from strength to strength. For communicating to a large audience they are great but will there eventually be an underground movement to bring back the power of speech

 

[Drpepper]

I agree with most of the comments made about everything having a shelf life. Certainly they have changed the way we communicate and Facebook seems to go from strength to strength. For communicating to a large audience they are great but will there eventually be an underground movement to bring back the power of speech

Not going by the teenagers I meet, the power of speech seems to illude most of them

 

[TomUK]

When people compare Facebook to football teams and banks, its time to get out of the conversation...

 

[Esk247]

When people compare Facebook to football teams and banks, its time to get out of the conversation...

Why? the principles are the same. The idea behind good management and tactical decisions against the Facebook rules the world, down with everything else, Facebook is better than life...forget eating..just Facebook!

I hate facebook << OMG!!!! Did i just say that!

But i do, it's rubbish, doesn't work for me. Entirely useless. Have it on my phone and computer..useless. Bin it.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[TomUK]

Esk, how old are you if you don't mind me asking? Do you have many friends in real life?

If the only thing you used facebook for was to store and share photos (memories and experiences) with friends, is this not the most basic positive?

 

[Esk247]

Esk, how old are you if you don't mind me asking? Do you have many friends in real life?

If the only thing you used facebook for was to store and share photos (memories and experiences) with friends, is this not the most basic positive?

Ah well you see i have a lot of REAL friends actually. Not the virtual type, you know, the ones you can actually touch with your hands and see with your eyes instead of a picture. I know it's shocking for the facebook community to understand that concept but there ya go, i'm daring.

I'm 24...if you reverse that it gives you 42 which is closer to the age i actually feel.