EU sales in constant decline since Brexit

[envance]

I thought I'd post here for info / comment really.
We keep a close eye on our sales markets and this is how our sales to EU has looked over the last few years:

2017 - 18.60%
2018 - 17.36%
2019 - 18.02%
2020 - 15.14%
2021 - 11.07%
2022 ytd - 9.11%

To add to that, this lost business has not been compensated for by an increase in domestic or Worldwide sales.

The cost of importing from our suppliers in Germany and Belgium is horrendous, import duties and taxes are literally a lottery and we cannot quote any of our customers realistic prices on imported goods until they've cleared customs because the prices they add on are so completely random, and you try getting hold of HMRC to clarify what's been charged, it's simply not possible.

Summary - Brexit is a disaster for the UK's international trade.

 

[japancool]

The cost of importing from our suppliers in Germany and Belgium is horrendous

We import from Italy and Germany. I don't know why the cost would be horrendous, the taxes we pay are no different from what we would have paid in any case. In our case, that's VAT, which is now being charged to us at the UK rate rather than the Italian or German rate. It's all reclaimable anyway, if you're VAT registered.

Unless you're importing dutiable goods, or your supplier is not using the correct HS codes on their import declaration - if they are, you should be reliably able to work out the taxes and duties beforehand.

The only additional fees we incur are a £50 admin charge if the shipment comes in by road.

 

[gpietersz]

So nearly half the decline in EU sales happened before the UK left the single market and the customs union?

What else has changed since for a small importer of VW car parts?

 

[Deleted member 335660]

Yes Brexit is a disaster for small businesses and as you say, unlikely to benefit from all these “global contracts”.

Because we knew Brexit was coming we started to avoid UK companies and the costs and delays in getting through customs confirmed our suspicions.

Some smaller suppliers have set up supply chains in EU. One company we order from in UK supplies us from their Polish factory.

All very sad that the huge success of small UK companies has been hit so hard.

 

[Paul Norman]

Brexit was not good for trade with the EU.

You won't get much sympathy in these parts, though - remember, the people voted for it and are never going to listen to any downsides.


If you want to sell to the EU, though, there are still ways of doing it. Like, for example, having a base in an EU jurisdiction.

In fairness, it no longer makes sense to import stuff from the EU and sell it back to the EU. If I am going to be honest with myself, it didn't make sense to do that before, it was just arguably easier!

 

[Gyumri]

I've still got some spare "Let's Get Brexit Done" window stickers if anyone who voted for Brexit wants any.

 

[simon field]

I've still got some spare "Let's Get Brexit Done" window stickers if anyone who voted for Brexit wants any.

Did you run out of windows?

 

[Gyumri]

Did you run out of windows?

Well it seemed a good idea at the time. Sales seems to have decreased since Brexit while sewage has increased. They'll have to retitle the song The White Cliffs of Dover.

 

[Ray272]

I like that we have some absolute jokers at the helm now, because at some point someones gonna come in a reunite the UK to the EU. 5 years give or take.

 

[envance]

I like that we have some absolute jokers at the helm now, because at some point someones gonna come in a reunite the UK to the EU. 5 years give or take.

Some sort of new trade deal has to happen full stop, sub £50 B2C orders to ALL EU countries is now pointless and that's such a shame as SME's are losing lots and lots of business

 

[HFE Signs]

I've still got some spare "Let's Get Brexit Done" window stickers if anyone who voted for Brexit wants any.

We probably printed them

 

[MBE2017]

I like that we have some absolute jokers at the helm now, because at some point someones gonna come in a reunite the UK to the EU. 5 years give or take.

Macron is going to propose a new EU come October, based on common security, transport, movement of people. He wants the Brits back in it too, the lure of our £’s and the constant comfort being thrown at him by remoaners means this could happen if the UK Gov is not careful. They state they are considering the proposal.

Nothing will rile the Brits than a Gov trying to railroad them against their will.

 

[thetiger2015]

at him by remoaners means this could happen if the UK Gov is not careful. They state they are considering the proposal.

Why would they be considering it, if brexit has already made us richer than we've ever been? We're swimming in brexity goodness...right?...right?

 

[MBE2017]

Why would they be considering it, if brexit has already made us richer than we've ever been? We're swimming in brexity goodness...right?...right?

More like swimming in remoaners tears. The Gov response is just polite language, but as was seen during the referendum, many who were meant to be independent and serve the UK Gov were colluding with the EU.

Since the vote, two years of covid, a bad agreement that both Blair and Bertie Ahern agree is damaging against the whole original peace agreement that needs amending, yet the UK is performing at the level of most EU states.

Way too early to decide if it is a success or failure, look at it in fifty years. My money is on an independent UK out performing most.

 

[envance]

More like swimming in remoaners tears. The Gov response is just polite language, but as was seen during the referendum, many who were meant to be independent and serve the UK Gov were colluding with the EU.

Since the vote, two years of covid, a bad agreement that both Blair and Bertie Ahern agree is damaging against the whole original peace agreement that needs amending, yet the UK is performing at the level of most EU states.

Way too early to decide if it is a success or failure, look at it in fifty years. My money is on an independent UK out performing most.

What on earth are you banging on about, 'remoaner tears' ? Can you post links to some of things you've stated, because otherwise it does look a bit like paranoid ramblings without substance

 

[envance]

Macron is going to propose a new EU come October, based on common security, transport, movement of people. He wants the Brits back in it too, the lure of our £’s and the constant comfort being thrown at him by remoaners means this could happen if the UK Gov is not careful. They state they are considering the proposal.

Nothing will rile the Brits than a Gov trying to railroad them against their will.

'Macron is going to propose a new EU come October, based on common security, transport, movement of people. He wants the Brits back in it too, the lure of our £’s and the constant comfort being thrown at him by remoaners means this could happen if the UK Gov is not careful. They state they are considering the proposal.'

Well, it's October and Macron has proposed nothing. Where is your evidence ?

 

[Newchodge]

'Macron is going to propose a new EU come October, based on common security, transport, movement of people. He wants the Brits back in it too, the lure of our £’s and the constant comfort being thrown at him by remoaners means this could happen if the UK Gov is not careful. They state they are considering the proposal.'

Well, it's October and Macron has proposed nothing. Where is your evidence ?

Perhaps this meeting? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63151813

 

[IanSuth]

I am standing by my prediction - we will end up as a member of the EFTA (or an equivalent), it is still "out" so can be sold as not going back on the referendum but in enough to get many of the benefits.

It is however the worst of all worlds - we will pay to be subject to rules we don't have any say in (in theory EFTA members are not bound by the regulations so that can be spun to keep leavers happy, but in practice they are the comply with trading rules)

Brexit has not worked and will not work for the majority - a full Singapore style low tax hub "could" work BUT only for those at the top, it would increase inequalities and reduce a lot to penury - it is obviously what Truss/Kwatang/Mogg have in mind but there is just not the political will in the UK to go that far and it is an all or nothing solution (it is actually this why I voted remain not leave - the theory/head says remove inefficiencies in the market/taxes/benefits and on average do better as a country - the reality/heart says "what about those floundering at the bottom you remove the safety net for who will sink" as a country we won't allow that so we will bodge it and fail)

 

[Newchodge]

I am standing by my prediction - we will end up as a member of the EFTA (or an equivalent), it is still "out" so can be sold as not going back on the referendum but in enough to get many of the benefits.

It is however the worst of all worlds - we will pay to be subject to rules we don't have any say in (in theory EFTA members are not bound by the regulations so that can be spun to keep leavers happy, but in practice they are the comply with trading rules)

Brexit has not worked and will not work for the majority - a full Singapore style low tax hub "could" work BUT only for those at the top, it would increase inequalities and reduce a lot to penury - it is obviously what Truss/Kwatang/Mogg have in mind but there is just not the political will in the UK to go that far and it is an all or nothing solution (it is actually this why I voted remain not leave - the theory/head says remove inefficiencies in the market/taxes/benefits and on average do better as a country - the reality/heart says "what about those floundering at the bottom you remove the safety net for who will sink" as a country we won't allow that so we will bodge it and fail)

It would also have the advantage of being much closer to what was proposed by the liars who sold Brexit. Unfortuinately, as you say, it makes Brexit not only pointless, but puts us in a worse position than we would have been in had we stayed.

 

[MBE2017]

What on earth are you banging on about, 'remoaner tears' ? Can you post links to some of things you've stated, because otherwise it does look a bit like paranoid ramblings without substance

You have the link, you quoted it, it was my thoughts. I never once claimed this was from some huge scientific study.

Well, it's October and Macron has proposed nothing. Where is your evidence ?

If you want to know what’s going on in the world, read the news, or try a simple google search. Personally I have never been a secretary and have no plans to become one either.

 

[IanSuth]

You have the link, you quoted it, it was my thoughts. I never once claimed this was from some huge scientific study.

That is not an EU mk2 it is more a Council of Europe mk2 front end now it has to reinvent itself following the ejection of Russia.

I would have thought that would make Leavers froth at the mouth as the Council of Europe is the people being the ECHR and is the bit that we need to discuss any unified plan on migration/asylum with

 

[envance]

It would also have the advantage of being much closer to what was proposed by the liars who sold Brexit. Unfortuinately, as you say, it makes Brexit not only pointless, but puts us in a worse position than we would have been in had we stayed.

I am willing to be corrected, but every single thing that's happened since Brexit has put us in a worse position.
I ask in all seriousness, can anyone point out a single thing that's better than before

 

[japancool]

I ask in all seriousness, can anyone point out a single thing that's better than before

Those of us who don't happen to have EU passports don't get treated like scum at the border.

Well, we do, but now everyone else does too.

 

[Fagin2021]

I am willing to be corrected, but every single thing that's happened since Brexit has put us in a worse position.
I ask in all seriousness, can anyone point out a single thing that's better than before

Yes - I no longer have to listen to Nigel Farage.

 

[SillyBill]

The paperwork is a real chore IMO but to counter how poor individual ancedotals are for these things, our EU business has expanded because we have actively sold more into Ireland in particular. Continental business if there has been any decline at all it has not been sufficient for me to notice, about flat I'd guess. Also after a brief period of adjustment in terms of import/export costs I wouldn't say we're frequently/if at all surprised by tariffs/charges now, they're built into our cost models fairly well. I don't think the barriers have helped trade in any way, you'd have to be an idiot to state that but I also don't subscribe to it being that difficult to continue trading, particularly if established, just more tedious paperwork for the most part is my experience.

 

[Newchodge]

The paperwork is a real chore IMO but to counter how poor individual ancedotals are for these things, our EU business has expanded because we have actively sold more into Ireland in particular. Continental business if there has been any decline at all it has not been sufficient for me to notice, about flat I'd guess. Also after a brief period of adjustment in terms of import/export costs I wouldn't say we're frequently/if at all surprised by tariffs/charges now, they're built into our cost models fairly well. I don't think the barriers have helped trade in any way, you'd have to be an idiot to state that but I also don't subscribe to it being that difficult to continue trading, particularly if established, just more tedious paperwork for the most part is my experience.

And those are benefits? Not being very much harder is not a good thing IMHO

 

[SillyBill]

And those are benefits? Not being very much harder is not a good thing IMHO

In business you always find opportunities, complaining about market conditions while other businesses are out capitalising on the very same new developments you're complaining about is not the sign of strong business leadership - I see many benefits and we will take them. Case in point: due to UKCA Marking and the barriers that'll put up to European competitors in our biggest market (the UK domestic market) we'll be projecting to expand our market share vs European manufacturers deciding to pull business from the UK, as early as 1st Jan 2023. These developments form part of our strategy. Why would competitors spend money on certification costs for one market that may be a fraction of their annual sales = opportunity for us to grow in the UK.

 

[Newchodge]

In business you always find opportunities, complaining about market conditions while other businesses are out capitalising on the very same new developments you're complaining about is not the sign of strong business leadership - I see many benefits and we will take them. Case in point: due to UKCA Marking and the barriers that'll put up to European competitors in our biggest market (the UK domestic market) we'll be projecting to expand our market share vs European manufacturers deciding to pull business from the UK, as early as 1st Jan 2023. These developments form part of our strategy. Why would competitors spend money on certification costs for one market that may be a fraction of their annual sales = opportunity for us to grow in the UK.

Fair enough, but your previous post was in response to the question
"can anyone point out a single thing that's better than before"
Nothing in your first post could be described as better than before.

 

[Martin Winlow]

Yes Brexit is a disaster for small businesses and as you say, unlikely to benefit from all these “global contracts”.

Because we knew Brexit was coming we started to avoid UK companies and the costs and delays in getting through customs confirmed our suspicions...

Except that all of your negatives *could* simply be based simply on spite!

 

[Newchodge]

Except that all of your negatives *could* simply be based simply on spite!

And your evidence for this is?

 

[gpietersz]

Except that all of your negatives *could* simply be based simply on spite!

Not spite, cherry picking evidence, conformity, short termism, and living in an echo chamber.

 

[IanSuth]

To save continually making the same comments can we all agree some things (I don't think these are controversial)

Inside the Eu we had efficiencies (economies of scale of dealing with a single large market and no to low tariff and non-tariff barriers) and inefficiencies (a bloated standards system designed by committee trying to fit 28 different countries circumstances so not quite right for any particular country - by standards i mean all aspects of trying to make the 28 countries commerce and economies interoperable)

Post Brexit to engage with that market now has an extra inefficiency (some non tariff barriers) and if we were to diverge from the standards likely some tariff boundaries

From where we are now therefore the only way to make it an economic success is to find ways to increase efficiencies through a more streamlined standards process and by finding ways we can do things better for us that don't appear to be unfair to the EU (so no tariffs).

We have left so now the only choice is make a success of it OR join something like the EFTA which will always be inferior (most of the costs and controls without a say in things)


Now the controversial bit

Personally I don't think we will make a success of it as for every single bit of standards there is someone who sees it as essential and we are as country risk adverse. So everyone wants a bonfire of redtape but nobody can agree which bits (do those bits over there not these bits here which i like) so nothing of consequence will happen and we will drift along for a few years suffering and with the arguments continuing until they come to a head again at the election after next

 

[DontAsk]

There's nothing stopping manufacturers continuing to meet EU standards. Just as they have always had to meet US or other standards if exporting to those countries.

 

[thetiger2015]

There's nothing stopping manufacturers continuing to meet EU standards. Just as they have always had to meet US or other standards if exporting to those countries.

But it is sometimes cheaper to not bother.

For example, the EU have different labelling regulations in our industry now. The UK will require a different set of codes to be displayed. Which means we would have to start packaging all EU orders separately, as they won't allow the import of goods with UK labels, they have to match the new labelling requirements from 2023 I think?

This cuts off 10% or so of our trade. We cannot export to the EU, end of, not worth printing all new boxes for it.

 

[DontAsk]

I've seen plenty of products with multiple logos on the label, UL, CE, C-tick. I don't see a problem with dual UKCA and CE labelling.

 

[Deleted member 335660]

Except that all of your negatives *could* simply be based simply on spite!

Not sure what you are implying but I tend to go on facts like the recent report from the Office of Budget Responsibility (down 15%) or Financial Times and other credible sources.

 

[IanSuth]

I've seen plenty of products with multiple logos on the label, UL, CE, C-tick. I don't see a problem with dual UKCA and CE labelling.

Because dual labelling means more cost so not a "problem" but def a cost and some industry/sector specific labelling is not cheap (I remember many years ago being told how much my accident between a pallet truck and a shelf of labels at BASF Coatings&Inks had just cost)

You would need EU labels for EU regs and then to also add the UK labelling for the UK market

 

[DontAsk]

Labels themselves are not expensive but my point is it can all go on the same label.

The testing regimes are often so similar that one test will suffice, e.g., anything that passed EU EMC regs would almost certainly pass UL for the US.

 

[gpietersz]

Inside the Eu we had efficiencies (economies of scale of dealing with a single large market and no to low tariff and non-tariff barriers) and inefficiencies

So whether Brexit was good or bad overall depends on which are greater.

The UKs biggest trading partner is the US. Furthermore, for many years, even prior to the Brexit vote the proportion of EU to non-EU trade was moving steadily towards the latter (because European economies are low growth).

Also, the EU is changing. We should not only look at pros and cons of things as they are now, but also whether we want to be part of greater political integration.

Finally, this is a political as well as economic decision. The economic arguments against Scotland leaving the union are far stronger than those against Brexit, but it does not stop people supporting it. A lot of former colonies would have better off economically remaining part of the British Empire, but they still wanted independence and I doubt you could find a single one that would vote to be ruled by Britian again, even where independence has been a clear failure economically.

 

[Newchodge]

So whether Brexit was good or bad overall depends on which are greater.

The UKs biggest trading partner is the US. Furthermore, for many years, even prior to the Brexit vote the proportion of EU to non-EU trade was moving steadily towards the latter (because European economies are low growth).

Also, the EU is changing. We should not only look at pros and cons of things as they are now, but also whether we want to be part of greater political integration.

Finally, this is a political as well as economic decision. The economic arguments against Scotland leaving the union are far stronger than those against Brexit, but it does not stop people supporting it. A lot of former colonies would have better off economically remaining part of the British Empire, but they still wanted independence and I doubt you could find a single one that would vote to be ruled by Britian again, even where independence has been a clear failure economically.

The US is the biggest trading partner, unless you view EU as a treading partner - EU trade is around 3.5 times US trade.