EU IOSS Signup

[Morning]

Put it where Royal Mail tell you to put it: https://help.parcel.royalmail.com/h...26577-Import-One-Stop-Shop-IOSS-in-Click-Drop

 

[romeo b]

Hi all - just a quick message.
I have registered for IOSS and have been putting it on my CN23 and also included it on invoices for packages going from UK to EU, but I am finding many customers are still having to pay customs fees, etc. when it reaches the EU.

I made a thread about this : ioss-registered-but-eu-customers-still-paying-customs-fees.414061/

If others are experiencing the same issue, would you be able to share your experience on that thread? I want to try to work out exactly what could be the problem and maybe we can give each other advice?

Thank you.

What RM service(s) are you using? Only certain ones are IOSS approved, irrespective of the VAT paid element.

If you send using OLA/OTC/OSA/OTA still, they're not IOSS approved.

You should be sending using the newer codes, which if you look on this page - https://www.royalmail.com/business/international/guide/delivered-duties-paid-ioss - and scroll right down to "REQUIREMENTS" section, it shows the IOSS approved codes for outgoing mail.

We use eBay a lot, and a little circle "IOSS" icon shows when printing the Royal Mail customs/dispatch labels, but no IOSS number shows on the label itself, anywhere.

 

[Morning]

Oh, and if you're just taking packages to the Post Office, you can't use your own IOSS number. Post Office can only handle IOSS packages from certain online marketplaces whose numbers don't have to be secret. https://www.postoffice.co.uk/mail/selling-to-the-eu

 

[schmexit]

I have asked my MP to contact the Treasury. After a lot of back and forth, here's their response. Their attitude is quite blasé and disappointing. They do not seem to understand the gravity of this - blaming the EU for Brexit? Come on.

___________________

The UK is currently in discussion with the EU Commission about the issue of fiscal
representatives in relation to the EU Import One Stop Shop (IOSS) scheme. This is to see
whether they can agree that the condition should not apply to the UK under the terms of
the ‘Protocol on Administrative Cooperation and Combatting Fraud in the Field of Value
Added Tax and on Mutual Assistance for the Recovery of Claims relating to Taxes in
Duties’ included within the Trade and Cooperation Agreement.

UK businesses can still opt to register for IOSS in the EU, however, the IOSS scheme is an
EU system, with use and access governed by EU law. Businesses that opt to use IOSS will
need to follow EU guidance, which also sets out what this means for Great Britain
businesses and the requirement to appoint an EU-established fiscal representative. You can find more information at: https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/ioss_en.

The fees charged by fiscal representatives for the services they provide are a commercial
matter and I cannot comment on this.

Businesses that choose not to opt for IOSS can continue to export goods to the EU, with
any import VAT due in the EU continuing to be collected from the recipient in the same
way as it is now. In addition, if a business sells goods in consignments not exceeding
£135 (€150) via an online marketplace that is registered for IOSS, the online marketplace,
rather than the business, will be liable for the VAT due.

 

[NWH]

Well done for trying. I will also write to my MP. The more pressure we put on our government the better. It is quite amazing that our administration does not appreciate the damage the IOSS requirement is doing to small business in the UK. It will hit HM Government in their tax pocket but they either don’t appreciate or care about that loss and the ongoing damage it is doing to small businesses who are trying to sell in Europe.

 

[schmexit]

Well done for trying. I will also write to my MP. The more pressure we put on our government the better. It is quite amazing that our administration does not appreciate the damage the IOSS requirement is doing to small business in the UK. It will hit HM Government in their tax pocket but they either don’t appreciate or care about that loss and the ongoing damage it is doing to small businesses who are trying to sell in Europe.

Yeah, they just do not seem to care. Shambles!

EVERYONE - write to your MPs. Ask them to contact HM Treasury. Tell them it's urgent. Ask them to prioritise VAT/IOSS negotiations with the EU.

 

[Graham Wharton]

I've been pushing it with the federation of small business to pressure the government.

 

[NWH]

I’m currently using eBay to sell into Europe due to the IOSS debacle. I sell to the rest of the world via my own web site without problem.

Several European countries, but Germany primarily, have developed the habit of returning packages having tried to deliver to the customer just once. I am also getting claims almost daily from eBay about supposedly lost orders (Germany).

My eBay business account is integrated with my Click and Drop account (along with my own web site).

My question is, should I be copying the eBay IOSS receipt number that is visible on the eBay sales transaction invoice transaction onto my click and drop shipping label?

At the moment I simply print the label and attach to order. I notice on the shipping label there is an IOSS printed logo.

Do I need to copy and attach the actual eBay receipt number for the IOSS VAT paid?

 

[Graham Wharton]

I believe if the IOSS logo is on your label then that's it. You shouldn't see the IOSS number on the label or CN22.

You can check the IOSS number Is on the order by looking at package details when applying postage. It should show you the number that will be sent.

Your returns won't be from IOSS issues if it got through customs.

 

[NWH]

Thanks Graham. That was my thinking. Its a pity that when you go to the local Post Office you are told, "You must show the IOSS number on eBay orders". Talk about the blind leading the blind.
Maybe this is why we still have EU countries refusing packages from time to time when eBay have confirmed, as you say, in the package details that VAT has 'been paid'.

 

[Graham Wharton]

I believe that applies for over the counter orders, where the post office counter need to do some "magic" to apply eBays number to the electronic info for package. If you are sending from C&D, even if you are handing over the counter at the post office, dont worry, the electronic info is done for you by C&D. Just make sure you see the IOSS logo and youre done.

 

[Graham Wharton]

Still doesn't stop things like this from happening. This had IOSS logo (visible under customs sticker)

 

[Kate881]

Label might have IOSS on but your invoice states DAP not DDP?

 

[Graham Wharton]

IOSS is DAP. In IOSS you collect the VAT at checkout (or ebay does) and you (or ebay) give to EU in VAT return. In DDP you collect the VAT at checkout and you give to Royal Mail, who give to the EU.

The Royal Mail DDP service is only live in four countries at the moment.

 

[NWH]

Label might have IOSS on but your invoice states DAP not DDP?

Can I ask what country?

 

[Graham Wharton]

Ireland customs say the reason for return is lack of electronic info. Royal Mail say the reason for return is that the HS Code is on the prohibited item list for Ireland. Not sure which to believe.

 

[Kate881]

DDP is a general term not just to describe a RM service. This site www. baxterfreight.com /news/incoterms/shows (lose the spaces)it as I have always thought of it, DDP = all charges are senders responsibility (with IOSS we are responsible to pay the EU not the customer) so they get it with no further payments due.

 

[Morning]

Did Irish customs tell you a reason, or are you going by what's on the sticker? Also, one thing that jumps out is that the customs item description doesn't actually describe the item.

 

[Graham Wharton]

Did Irish customs tell you a reason, or are you going by what's on the sticker? Also, one thing that jumps out is that the customs item description doesn't actually describe the item.

Yeah, I did think of that. I now include "Industrial Lubricant" as additional customs info aswell as the product name. I've got another item on its way back from Ireland today which had this included aswell so we'll see what sticker they put on it this time.

 

[schmexit]

What a mess this is. And still zero support and advice from the UK government.

 

[japancool]

What a mess this is. And still zero support and advice from the UK government.

I think you'll find that everyone exporting to the EU has this problem, it's not just the UK.

 

[schmexit]

Well, we did not have this problem before Brexit. We certainly would not have this problem had we stayed in the free market or if our government had negotiated a good deal for its small businesses.

 

[DesignElektronik]

Still doesn't stop things like this from happening. This had IOSS logo (visible under customs sticker)

Maybe any kind of lubricant will fall foul of the An Post Prohibited Item List, where one line says:

• Liquids of any kind including water, alcohol, gels, creams, aftershaves and perfumes

I suspect most lubricants are (or might readily be interpreted) as liquids, if gels or creams are defined as such.

 

[schmexit]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...0-trade-with-germany-brexit-bites-2021-09-08/

"Britain is on course to lose its status as one of Germany's top 10 trading partners this year for the first time since 1950, as Brexit-related trade barriers drive firms in Europe's largest economy to look for business elsewhere.

For many small British firms, Brexit meant losing access to their most important export market... It's like shooting yourself in the foot. And this explains why German imports from Britain are in free-fall now."

 

[LHow]

I’m currently using eBay to sell into Europe due to the IOSS debacle. I sell to the rest of the world via my own web site without problem.

Several European countries, but Germany primarily, have developed the habit of returning packages having tried to deliver to the customer just once. I am also getting claims almost daily from eBay about supposedly lost orders (Germany).

My eBay business account is integrated with my Click and Drop account (along with my own web site).

My question is, should I be copying the eBay IOSS receipt number that is visible on the eBay sales transaction invoice transaction onto my click and drop shipping label?

At the moment I simply print the label and attach to order. I notice on the shipping label there is an IOSS printed logo.

Do I need to copy and attach the actual eBay receipt number for the IOSS VAT paid?

I had heard that Germany would not be ready to handle IOSS until October at the earliest?

Also, I found the following at https tamebay com slash 2021 slash 07 slash ioss-ddp-dap-sos-what-you-need-to-know.html

3. DDP – Delivered Duty Paid

This is very similar to shipping DTP, in that the seller pays all Duties & Taxes so the customer doesn’t have to. However, there is a significant difference – DDP requires the sender to be the Importer of Record, which is the person officially responsible for making sure delivery is compliant with all legal regulations in the destination country. However, the Importer of Record also often needs to be tax-registered in the destination country. Some carriers have created their own services whereby the receiver can be the Importer of Record, however this is not a standardised service offered by all carriers.

What’s the catch?
If you do not have an intermediary in the destination country, your parcels may be rejected at the border. Germany, for example, is especially strict in enforcing this and will not clear any parcels sent DDP if the sender is not tax-registered in Germany. Often, sellers make the mistake of thinking they can send parcels DDP to account for Duties & Taxes but find they cannot be cleared at Customs because they are not tax-registered in the country.

Does anyone know if the Royal Mail is able to be "the Importer of Record" ? What about other carriers?

 

[japancool]

I suggest you look beyond the EU for new markets.

 

[schmexit]

I had heard that Germany would not be ready to handle IOSS until October at the earliest?

Also, I found the following at https tamebay com slash 2021 slash 07 slash ioss-ddp-dap-sos-what-you-need-to-know.html

3. DDP – Delivered Duty Paid

This is very similar to shipping DTP, in that the seller pays all Duties & Taxes so the customer doesn’t have to. However, there is a significant difference – DDP requires the sender to be the Importer of Record, which is the person officially responsible for making sure delivery is compliant with all legal regulations in the destination country. However, the Importer of Record also often needs to be tax-registered in the destination country. Some carriers have created their own services whereby the receiver can be the Importer of Record, however this is not a standardised service offered by all carriers.

What’s the catch?
If you do not have an intermediary in the destination country, your parcels may be rejected at the border. Germany, for example, is especially strict in enforcing this and will not clear any parcels sent DDP if the sender is not tax-registered in Germany. Often, sellers make the mistake of thinking they can send parcels DDP to account for Duties & Taxes but find they cannot be cleared at Customs because they are not tax-registered in the country.

Does anyone know if the Royal Mail is able to be "the Importer of Record" ? What about other carriers?

What the? So does this mean that even if one succeeds in registering for IOSS, there will be problems if you're not VAT registered in the destination country? That does not make any sense.

 

[LHow]

What the? So does this mean that even if one succeeds in registering for IOSS, there will be problems if you're not VAT registered in the destination country? That does not make any sense.

I have no idea, sorry. It sounded like it could perhaps be one of the reasons why @NWH had so many German parcels being returned (either that or that Germany was not ready for IOSS). I found the article on Tamebay while trying to figure out the IOSS situation with DAP & DPP. I thought "What the?" too, which is why I was asking here if anyone knew if the Royal Mail would be classed as "the Importer of Record" because that would solve the issue if you ship via Royal Mail .

 

[schmexit]

What a mess. What's the UK government doing to help us small businesses navigate this?

 

[Morning]

@schmexit: That quote has nothing to do with the IOSS. https://tamebay.com/2021/07/ioss-ddp-dap-sos-what-you-need-to-know.html

I had heard that Germany would not be ready to handle IOSS until October at the earliest?

I'd read that too, on Avalara or somewhere like that? I *think* it refers to the use of the H7 customs declaration, around which the IOSS was designed. But IOSS packages can still be declared using other customs declaration methods. Germany is definitely able to accept IOSS consignments.

Please note, I'm talking about the customs declarations made by postal services, not something senders need to worry about.

 

[Graham Wharton]

According to my account manager, Royal Mail DDP is now live for the following countries only.

Germany, France, Netherlands, Malta

 

[LHow]

What a mess. What's the UK government doing to help us small businesses navigate this?

The Gov keep saying its down to the EU! i.e. no help at all.

 

[schmexit]

The Gov keep saying its down to the EU! i.e. no help at all.

It's not down to the EU. Our government has not negotiated a mutual assistance VAT deal that would allow us to register for IOSS in the EU.

 

[NWH]

While I continue my search to find IOSS support for my small start-up company, I came across the name Desucla. They can be found easily via a web search browser. They are UK based and appear to be a dream answer to our needs for VAT representation in the EU and further afield. Before I make contact to find out more about them and importantly, the cost! Has anyone heard of this entity please?

They state:
Desucla is a UK headquartered company that was founded by tax and technology entrepreneurs who wanted to disrupt the antiquated world of fiscal representation and cross-border VAT payments.

We built proprietary technology and risk management systems to standardize fiscal representation across 35 key markets, minimizing the need for bank guarantees or bank deposits and leveraging our online platform to enable self-service and keep costs to a minimum. In addition, we built an integrated VAT payment portal to save our clients time and money when making their VAT payments.

 

[LHow]

They are a new name to me too. I had a look & via the Desucla site, go to "services" & then "ioss" & you will find pricing. They have different pricing tiers from uppermost Tier 1 at 20,000+ shipments per year.
down to the lowest volume price tier at Tier 5.
Tier 5 information :
No. of IOSS shipments per annum 0 – 2,499
One-off Registration Fee £12
Annual Up-front Fee £475
Monthly VAT payment Fee £5

Cheaper than something like Avalara, but more expensive than Crossborderit (£19.99 per month) for up to around 24 or 25 shipments per month at, I believe, roughly £1 per shipment.
(£19.99 + £24 =£43.99 or £19.99 + £25 =£44.99 per month)
For Desucla £39.58 fees + £5 for VAT Fee = £44.58 per month.

How are other people getting on with Crossborderit?

 

[Morning]

I’d contacted Desucla a while back, before they’d confirmed their Intermediary costs. They sent me that info later, but it’s was a bit too much for me, not knowing how many EU sales I’d get even with VAT collection at checkout. However, they phoned a few weeks back and mentioned they’d have another, cheaper tier coming in October. Hopefully that might be comparable to CBit in cost, and a hopefully a lot more competent.

 

[LHow]

I’d contacted Desucla a while back, before they’d confirmed their Intermediary costs. They sent me that info later, but it’s was a bit too much for me, not knowing how many EU sales I’d get even with VAT collection at checkout. However, they phoned a few weeks back and mentioned they’d have another, cheaper tier coming in October. Hopefully that might be comparable to CBit in cost, and a hopefully a lot more competent.

I would be interested to hear about the cheaper tier, as & when it happens.

 

[Melody Lewis]

Hi all. Up until now, we have not considered signing up for IOSS due to the huge costs. Our European sales outside Amazon are low. However, we have had huge issues and have not been able to get any samples through to Europe so have decided to go ahead. I have noticed that since the start of this thread, prices have come down hugely - I am seeing sign-ups for £100 and ongoing charges of £40-50 per month. Does anyone have any recommendations please for intermediaries - both cost and service? Thanks

 

[schmexit]

Taxamo seems to be way cheaper than any of these options for small to medium-sized online businesses at £2/parcel and no upfront or monthly costs.

 

[TKJ-London]

Taxamo seems to be way cheaper than any of these options for small to medium-sized online businesses at £2/parcel and no upfront or monthly costs.

Have you tried using Taxamo? The problem for me is you need to integrate their software into your shopping basket, and there isn't currently an integration plugin for Woocommerce, which is what I use. Thanks.