Electric meter never connected for 13 years!

[The Byre]

Yesterday, we got a new electricity meter, only to discover that an entire building was not being fed through the meter, but from a tap-off from the main fuse BEFORE the meter.

We have two buildings, side-by-side. One is owned by me personally, the other is owned by my company. When we built the company building, we installed a private meter in the company building and of course the entire electrical installation was completed by an electrician and subsequently OK'ed by the electricity company, who then put seals on all relevant boxes and the main fuse.

Every month, we read the private meter in the company building and the company pays me for the electricity used.

Yesterday, the electric company sent a chap around to install a new meter and remove the old one. That was when we both looked on in awe and wonder at the rather obvious fact that the original installation from the private building to the company building bye-passed the official meter!

How the hell an electrician manages to make a mistake like that baffles me. How the hell the engineer from the electrical supply company managed to miss what had happened and even then gave his blessing in the form of a seal on the main fuse where the supply went to the other building, also baffles me.

More to the point, the supply company also has a meter on the main transformer which feeds just five buildings. This should have told them that electricity is going 'missing' somewhere! But for c.a. 13 years, nothing was done about it!

Does anybody know what the legal (and therefore financial) ramifications are for all this nonsense?

 

[NickGrogan]

Sounds interesting. Normally when a meter has been tampered with it's to swap the day/night connections, so that all power is treated night units or something similar, this sounds a little different as the fuses where fitted and confirmed after the work was done.

Perhaps they thought that the private meter as a live meter with its own mpan and supply point - this would make the connection that they've installed correct. It's probably worth checking on Ecoes to see if this is the case, perhaps it has never been officially energised.

Regarding backbilling, it depends on whether the supply is domestic or business and whether you are a micro business. It also depends on who is to blame and which supplier you are with.

Worst case, 6 years back billing at out of contract rates, but I'd expect the supplier to negotiate this down and arrange a payment plan.

Best case,12 months back billing at contract rates or the cost written off completely. The latter does happen, but it's rare.

When you read the meter and billed yourself for the power, did you not notice that the bills for the half you used for yourself seemed very low?

Happy to discuss in more detail,

 

[The Byre]

I didn't notice anything, because I didn't do the reading.

The taking of the supply before the official meter was sanctioned (well, the engineer put a seal on it) by the electricity company. The unofficial (i.e. private) meter was just for our books, so that we knew what the company had to pay. As far as building regs and electricity supply were concerned, the company building was an extension to the private building and they are connected by a covered walkway.

The initial fault lies obviously with the electrician, but was compounded by the engineer from the supply company actually accepting that installation and putting a seal onto a main fuse that had a connection that did not go through any meter from the supply company.

The 'extension' is c.a. 200 sq m footprint and c.a. 300 sq m floor space.

As that was only yesterday, I have yet to hear from anyone, but it would be nice to know where we stand!

 

[MOIC]

Legally, they can bill you for "the electricity you have used" and this can be backdated to day one.

It's a case of negotiation.

You seem pretty good at that!

Good luck.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

We took over a building 5 years ago and had trouble finding the electricity supplier all the normal routes like the national register came up with the meter number unknown

We asked the previous company and they did not know and could not supply any old invoices for electricity

We got it sorted in the end and paid from when it was sorted

What we think happened is there was a car showroom here that went bust about 16 years ago just when the electricity was opened up to any company to supply, we assume when the company before us took over the electricity was still on and nobody bothered to chase it up as it was run by a manager for a large PLC, Hence they had 10 years of free electricity but i was to scared to continue so sorted it out

To the best of my knowledge nobody paid for these ten years

 

[The Byre]

As it is their fault, according to Ofgem, 12 months is the most they can claim, but there are two complications -

1. We have just changed supplier from SSE to EDF. The company that originally placed the seal no longer exists, as it was bought out by SSE (I think!)

2. Only we know what we used.

So if they want to invoice us for the missing electricity, I fail to see what sort of legal basis for that invoice can be presented.

If I were to be totally anal about the whole thing, I would have to contact HMRC and the accountants and tell both that our books dating back c.a. 13 years are incorrect, as I have been paid for electricity that I did not pay for myself. That would be fun!

 

[NickGrogan]

1) Changing suppliers shouldn't make too much difference, they should know who was supplying the site and when.

2) According to UKRPA, "The customer has to pay for the value of energy calculated to have been consumed but not metered during the period of interference as well as the costs of investigating the matter and the replacement of any damaged equipment." if they call it energy theft.

If they want to be a bit friendlier, working out the typical energy consumption for 300sqm of office/warehouse/retail space is fairly easy. Failing that they can look at the other buildings and the main transformers consumption.

Do you have any paperwork from the original contractor confirming what they did?

 

[The Byre]

Months later and now our book-keeping has been informed by EDF that they are not aware of any second meter and that our address is not the one they have on their records. They texted that they don't know if we have one meter or two meters for the two buildings and will send someone round to see if we have one or two meters!

We've already had a man from SSE fitting the second meter and a man from Revenue Recovery inspecting and agreeing that the meter is properly fitted and no hanky-panky had taken place. Now we have to wait for a third man (who might be one of the previous two!) to come and see our second meter.

I am very close to telling them that it's OK and forget the whole thing and BTW, thanks for all the free electricity!

I have since discovered that the main meter for all five buildings at the step-down transformer from SSE was never connected. Nobody knows how or why this happened!

As we get a cheque once a year from SSE for some HT wires that cross our land, I'm temped to return the next cheque with a note, telling them that they can keep the money in exchange for the entertainment value of dealing with their accounts department.

This is incompetence on a grand scale!

 

[john1989]

I was over several hundred pounds in credit with SSE last year. Our direct debit is £90pm.


I got a letter stating that they would be putting my direct debit up to £130. I called customer services for them to tell me tough. I told them I’d just cancel the direct debit until the credit balance had cleared and would then call them to set up a direct debit for £90. “You can’t do that they said”. I asked them if they would keep my direct debit at £90 to which they responded “no, it needs to be £130”. No explanations or anything. So I put the phone down and cancelled my direct debit.


The DD should have been taken a couple of days after the call.


Despite still uploading my meter readings, I started getting letters, then threatening letters and then a letter stating that if I didn’t call them to set up a direct debit they would obtain a court order to come into my home and fit a prepaid meter.


Needless to say, I called them again to get another call centre monkey that kept telling me “£130pm please”.


I switched suppliers and after much pestering got a cheque from SSE for the remainder of my credit balance.


I thought Virgin Media were bad, but this lot are on another level.

 

[DavidWH]

Is that the same SSE who don't do variable direct debits I thought that was the idea of direct debits?

 

[14Steve14]

I used to work for several companies that did debt collection and warrant work for most of the large and many of the small utility companies. Some of the stories I got told by customers were really funny and many were beyond comprehension. It seems that to work for a utility company you have to be devoid of common sense. Many of the problems that I heard about were actually caused by the companies and then they would try to blame the customer.

I have sympathy for anyone who wants a utility company to sort anything out. Best of luck.

 

[The Byre]

We have now been informed by EDF that SSE will come to inspect this second meter that nobody seems to have a record of, despite the fact that SSE installed it on behalf of EDF last December. The EDF call centre called back to ask if we had H&S procedures in place for the electrician from SSE to inspect the meter.

I didn't take the call, otherwise I would have told them that we shall be placing lighted matches between his toes throughout the entire process and give him a unicycle to stand on to see the meter.

This is nothing compared to the fun-and-games we had with the water company. Then our German office had the telephones cut off by Deutsche Telekom for paying too much. They got a final demand for a minus sum!

I am beginning to wonder if office employees at utilities come to work wearing red noses and revolving trousers.

 

[The Byre]

Well, a bloke came around, looked at the meter and said that we have got two meters.

That was two months ago. I have given up. The building that gets the supply from the second meter is now occupied by another business, together with a new one from us. I told accounts to forget the whole thing - after all, EDF certainly have!

Now all I need is for the heating oil company to refuse to bill us, but then they seem to be run along more conventional lines of supply in exchange for payment.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Don't forget they have i think 6 years to come after you for back payment and probably have the start readings now

 

[The Byre]

No, because only we know what the start readings are or were!

No, because under OfGem rules, we have made all reasonable effort to bring this matter to their attention, so six years is out.

No, just because wearing a red nose and revolving trousers seems to prevent normal business procedures!

 

[The Byre]

And now the story continues! We have changed supplier yet again and as a result, all kinds of new chaos has happened. As I only got back to the UK the day before yesterday (drove overnight from Munich) and I have spent the past day, recovering, drinking beer and trying to get my brain back and at the same time, dealing with considerably more important and interesting topics, such as cuddling my Great Danes, dealing with smelly drains (one of the customer loos is making a funny smell and apparently, that's my responsibility!) and trying to work out which one of the office staff is my wife.

Now I hear that the second meter is and has always been defective. That is the new one that they installed. A man will be coming to replace this defective meter and we have to provide a H&S assessment for his safe conduct and well-being. So I shall be getting the lighted matches out and handing him that unicycle. Once he's up there, perched on that unicycle, I shall leave the rest to the Great Danes.

We just had a photographer and video team here this morning and the dogs barked at the Canon camera, but not at the drone or the Panasonic cameras. I never realised until now, just how brand-aware Great Danes can get!

 

[UKSBD]

just bung him £50 to put the spur to the company building where it should have been in the 1st place and forget about the last 13 years

Edit: or hope he doesn't notice and keep getting free electricity

 

[Hugh Jampton]

After working at both the EEB (back in the pre privatisation days) then BT - All companys of this stature dont employ people to think.
That is not their job, why let an employee think when they can tick a box.
Have you ticked the box to say you've dealt with that problem? Computer says "yes" - Righto move on to the next customer problem.
I could list so many tales from both companys especially BT, where the problem gets managed by "THE PROCESS".
So long as you followed the process, ticked the box, then you've managed the situation your end.
Really you've achieved nothing, no one cares about that, yet the company has deemed you've completed the task you were employed to do.
Please dont try to put common sense on a large corporate, no one there cares.

I can remember finding similar situations as yours, just replacing the meter / dodgy connections etc & not bothering to open up the can of worms you're trying to get sorted.
As long as I had a safe situation on departure - All good by me.

Best of luck. Situations like this always make me think of this from the Hobbit.

Gandalf:
I am looking for someone to share in an adventure that I am arranging, and it’s very difficult to find anyone.

Bilbo:
I should think so—in these parts! We are plain quiet folk and have no use for adventures. Nasty disturbing uncomfortable things! Make you late for dinner! I can’t think what anybody sees in them.

Gandalf:
You’ll have a tale or two to tell when you come back

Bilbo:
You can promise that I’ll come back?

Gandalf:
No. And if you do, you will not be the same

 

[thetiger2015]

Good to hear that I'm not the only one to have suffered the relentless back and forth of emails, letters and phone calls.

Had the same problem with one of our shops. We had a new meter installed, a single meter but every time I went to submit a meter reading I got an email saying 'Sorry - your meter reading wasn't within our anticipated range, please call...'

The bills we received by post were horrendous. Up to 3 times what everyone else was paying in the same row. (thankfully didn't set up a direct debit despite their insistence, I'd of been bankrupted). Turns out, they were billing us for two meters at the property, even though they'd been and installed one. Still don't know if there ever was a 'ghost' meter but I was billed for it and never got my money back.

I threatened with the ombudsman (LMAO/LOL/ROFL) and that got me nowhere. I just couldn't be bothered in the end and paid up, then closed that business down. 4k lost over the course of a year and didn't get any refund or apology.

I've found that anything they say on the phone is usually a lie and you're dealing with someone working for just above minimum wage. They don't have any control over the automated systems and they can't help you, other than to say a manager will call you back, which they never do. Even when you get to speak to someone who supposedly has the power to make changes to an account, they just say one thing and the reality is that they didn't even write anything down, they were just trying to get you off the line.

There never was any record of me calling them, they denied they'd ever seen any letters from me and they were one of the big energy companies, not a small independent with limited resources.

 

[Hugh Jampton]

I'd have opened a small claims procedure - So easy to do & if the amount is minimal to them they dont bother contesting.

It costs them more to defend it, rather than just accept it.