Ebay sales of clever kit to thick people - Katie Hopkins was right.

paulears

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Jan 7, 2015
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My ebay sales of expensive, clever radio gear generates returns when people don't understand what they are buying. I've even changed some of the ads and added comments such as "Please don't buy this radio if you do not have a computer - trying to type in the data on the little keyboard will take months" - sort of friendly tongue-in-cheek comments that do then generate questions before buying, but this week I responded to a question with a firm NO, you really don't want to do this - and a long explanation. Then another short "can I do this.. from the keyboard?" and I rsponded with another no - and I even explained why - and said that I could not do it for him, because living two hundred miles apart, I can't test it. I pointed him to websites and forums. Got another message. I explained again, in depth that this would require him to connect the radio to his computer, which MUST be a PC, he could then download new firmware, download an installer, and told him the manufacturers support site download area. I then typed in capitals - if you update the firmware, and do not do it correctly, you will turn the radio into a brick - a totally useless, non functioning item, that I can not refund - you have killed it. I finished with a nice comment suggesting that this radio may not be for him, and I sell them to enthusiasts who like to experiment, as it needs a level of skill I'm not certain you possess. Ten minutes later he bought one. I've not done an invoice yet, seems a little pointless.

Then another person asks if I can add a couple of frequencies to a radio so he can hear his old lifeboat chums now he's retired. I said fine - so programmed the radio up and that one is coming back because he has a policy of inspecting products when he buys them, and the box had been opened and the keyboard protector removed. In pointed out I had to do this to add the channels and turn it on. It's still coming back - and he even used this in the ebay return = reason for return? Box had been opened.

Katie Hopkins came to mind because there is a trend. Apologies to any innocents out there, but the names do rather reveal who I should not sell radios to.

Cedric and Charles are these examples, but looking back through past similar returns, there is a trend. Reginald, Royston and a Sebastion. I'm thinking that before I send any clever products out, I really need to consider their name. I suspect Reg or Roy would be electronics savvy, but if I get an order in the future from people with names that suggest they're even older than me, I may just say no based on name alone. There's probably some Woke rule that says that makes me ageist, but how does somebody even think programming a radio, switched off inside a box is even possible?

I'm also seeing addresses that also suggest things about the occupier, or even the suitability of the product they are ordering. One person complained the radio was useless because he could not hear the coastguard. Googling his postcode revealed he lived in a small village near Leicester. Apparently I should make it clear that these radios are only going to work if you live near the sea! Reason for return? Does not work, which is sort of corrct I suppose.

I don't think I'd get away with adding "unsuitable for owners called Cedric, Charles, Reginald or Royston" and I could add the name of each returning customer to the listings. Or perhaps not. Maybe I need to add a drop down box for their exam qualifications?
 

MBE2017

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    Maybe try some reverse psychology, add a line like, IF YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO PROGRAMME THIS BOX DO NOT BUY.

    When I was on the markets, my favourite to use was, don’t bother mate, you can’t afford this kind of quality. How people love to prove you wrong.
     
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    JEREMY HAWKE

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    I want it collected from Exeter and delivered in Central London in the next two hours

    4 hour run with out any delays

    @paulears I would view your product as only suitable for those in trade (sort of if you know what I mean) almost bespoke
     
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    Mr D

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    Had a customer of an item I had produced try for a refund on the grounds that he'd been arrested and police had confiscated the item.
    Told him sure, if he returns it within 30 days of purchase.

    Rather poorly worded reply to that. He's been bad mouthing the product, far better advertising than anything I could do. Sales increased.
     
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    fisicx

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    Asked for a refund because the Wordpress plugin he paid for didn’t work on his wix site.
     
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    paulears

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    Nowadays, radios can be really clever and complicated - the other day I did try to program one for a customer who had been nice and tried to give me the info I needed. The idea was so he could talk to his friends about 20 miles away, through radio, into a network then out the other end as radio again. I pressed the buttons, typed in the various groups numbers, colour codes and slots and tested it. Had a nice chat with a guy driving down what used to be called Route 66 in America! And I am supposed to know what I'm doing!
     
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    WaveJumper

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    I want it collected from Exeter and delivered in Central London in the next two hours

    4 hour run with out any delays

    @paulears I would view your product as only suitable for those in trade (sort of if you know what I mean) almost bespoke
    A bit off the thread topic I know but quite often in Cornwall, last summer Truro to Essex 12.5 hours worst journey ever, and the queue to get in Exeter service seemed to stretch on for ever, in fact it was the same at all the services until I got up onto the M4. I clocked a 17 mile jam going in the opposite direction hopefully now people are flying again this year will be better.
     
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    AlanJ1

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    A bit off the thread topic I know but quite often in Cornwall, last summer Truro to Essex 12.5 hours worst journey ever, and the queue to get in Exeter service seemed to stretch on for ever, in fact it was the same at all the services until I got up onto the M4. I clocked a 17 mile jam going in the opposite direction hopefully now people are flying again this year will be better.

    How I don't miss living in Essex anymore.
    Think I have spent more time stuck on the M25 combined than any other road!
     
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    JEREMY HAWKE

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    A bit off the thread topic I know but quite often in Cornwall, last summer Truro to Essex 12.5 hours worst journey ever, and the queue to get in Exeter service seemed to stretch on for ever, in fact it was the same at all the services until I got up onto the M4. I clocked a 17 mile jam going in the opposite direction hopefully now people are flying again this year will be better.
    We "plan" running locally in the summer!
     
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    My prized customer question is....

    "How long is 16 inches ?"

    Many others came close.
    One saves these brilliant little idiocies in one's memory. When I was a raw army recruit, we got a lecture and the Sergent Major sent a rather gormless recruit outside to see if it was raining and he locked himself out. The SM then sent someone after him and the first recruit returned looking like a drowned cat. "Well boy! Is it raining?" "I don't know." said the boy. "I forgot to look."

    A colleague asked a journalist based in the Netherlands why he hadn't filed any copy. The reply: "Nothing has happened in Holland this month!"

    A very hip customer brought a valve amp into the workshop and told us that he had "like circuit-bent like everything man! I like joined shi1 up randomly to like make it like sound dirty man!" My colleague (with a sense for comedy and the dramatic) did not put it on the vari-volt separation transformer but just switched it on. It exploded and brown smoke filled the workshop.

    And then there was the customer who robbed a bank to become a rock star.

    Then there was the old DJ friend who appeared in a floral dress and told me that he is now The Prophet Uma.

    Then there was another old friend who, when I asked what he was up to, told me that he was playing with Ozzy Osbourn. I gave him my deepest sympathy, as I thought he had said Donny Osmond.

    I nearly forgot the customer who was convinced that +3dB meant one doubles the perceived volume. It is roughly +10dB - the frightening part of that story was that he turned out to be a lecturer at the local college in audio engineering!

    The guy who turned on the valve amp to make it explode, decided to have sex with a girl who had gone AWOL from the local reform school. He picked her up as a hitchhiker and she looked neither clean nor normal and did not seem to have a chin either. 10-to-14 days later I heard him shouting in the lavatory. He returned to the workshop red in the face and said "Why does it hurt when I pee?"

    I could go on and on and on and . . . but I feel I'd better get some work done!

    P.S.

    Then there was the roadie who accidentally set fire to himself.

    Then there was another roadie who pushed a follower-spot away and stepped to the edge of the stage. The spotlight swung back and hit him neatly on the back of the head and into the orchestra pit. I did enjoy that one!
     
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    A bit off the thread topic I know but quite often in Cornwall, last summer Truro to Essex 12.5 hours worst journey ever, and the queue to get in Exeter service seemed to stretch on for ever, in fact it was the same at all the services until I got up onto the M4. I clocked a 17 mile jam going in the opposite direction hopefully now people are flying again this year will be better.
    Try West Wales. Plentiful empty beaches and 3 cars are a traffic jam.
     
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    Paul Carmen

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    @paulears we worked with a client who sells lots of bespoke items, effectively modding and customising normal products. This was a constant issue for them via eBay, as their returns supports the buyer not the seller.

    We tried different text and selling options, but eBay would still let customers return items for what was 100% "user error"...

    The way we resolved this was to stop selling them on eBay. If they wanted items modded/customised, these were sold via the website only and as 'tailor-made/personalised goods'. The T&Cs of the sales on site covered this and distance selling then didn't apply for open boxes, changed my mind etc (faults & damage etc was still covered as normal).
     
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    paulears

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    That might be workable if I can word something in the ebay advert - as in contact us for modifications and special requests>>

    I had another today. And he used the reason defective - so I have to pay for the return too!

    Sorry going to have to return this the programing of the radio is totally beyond me, I don t think I d be able to get it to work for me in a month of Sunday,
     
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    Paul Carmen

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    As Alan says, check the eBay T&Cs before you do anything like that in ads.

    The place to manage this is any customer dialogue (ideally off eBay; e.g. emails, phone calls etc), as you can offer this discreetly without risking your account/listings by not transacting overtly off eBay, but still make it clear they can't return the customised item.
     
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    Mr D

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    That might be workable if I can word something in the ebay advert - as in contact us for modifications and special requests>>

    I had another today. And he used the reason defective - so I have to pay for the return too!

    You are aware that some buyers don't actually read the advert? Just the picture and title - a few just look at the picture.

    Ebay won't be keen on the idea of off ebay deals. They can suspend account permanently over such matters.
     
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    paulears

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    Yes - I'm aware of the fragility of ebay and off ebay sales.

    I think that as the people struggling are all ancient radio hams - ironically the ones who looked down their noses at any whipper-snapper who couldn't master Morse Code - then as an ex-ham myself, who also mastered morse code, anyone of my age who asks stupid questions I might simply turn away the sale, or perhaps ask a question designed to get them to give away their lack of knowledge?

    If the thick ones had a message from me saying "Hi thanks for the order, do you want me to enter your Digital ID before sending it out? Just let me know what it is?"

    If this brought back a response like "I don't have a Digital ID, where can I get one?" I'd know they are ill prepared and would be likely to return it, so I could cancel the sale?

    If the response was "Very kind, but no need as I can do it when I do the programming" - I'd know they were on the ball?

    What do you think? Is that crafty enough to work?
     
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    Scubadog

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    Dec 7, 2021
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    My ebay sales of expensive, clever radio gear generates returns when people don't understand what they are buying. I've even changed some of the ads and added comments such as "Please don't buy this radio if you do not have a computer - trying to type in the data on the little keyboard will take months" - sort of friendly tongue-in-cheek comments that do then generate questions before buying, but this week I responded to a question with a firm NO, you really don't want to do this - and a long explanation. Then another short "can I do this.. from the keyboard?" and I rsponded with another no - and I even explained why - and said that I could not do it for him, because living two hundred miles apart, I can't test it. I pointed him to websites and forums. Got another message. I explained again, in depth that this would require him to connect the radio to his computer, which MUST be a PC, he could then download new firmware, download an installer, and told him the manufacturers support site download area. I then typed in capitals - if you update the firmware, and do not do it correctly, you will turn the radio into a brick - a totally useless, non functioning item, that I can not refund - you have killed it. I finished with a nice comment suggesting that this radio may not be for him, and I sell them to enthusiasts who like to experiment, as it needs a level of skill I'm not certain you possess. Ten minutes later he bought one. I've not done an invoice yet, seems a little pointless.

    Then another person asks if I can add a couple of frequencies to a radio so he can hear his old lifeboat chums now he's retired. I said fine - so programmed the radio up and that one is coming back because he has a policy of inspecting products when he buys them, and the box had been opened and the keyboard protector removed. In pointed out I had to do this to add the channels and turn it on. It's still coming back - and he even used this in the ebay return = reason for return? Box had been opened.

    Katie Hopkins came to mind because there is a trend. Apologies to any innocents out there, but the names do rather reveal who I should not sell radios to.

    Cedric and Charles are these examples, but looking back through past similar returns, there is a trend. Reginald, Royston and a Sebastion. I'm thinking that before I send any clever products out, I really need to consider their name. I suspect Reg or Roy would be electronics savvy, but if I get an order in the future from people with names that suggest they're even older than me, I may just say no based on name alone. There's probably some Woke rule that says that makes me ageist, but how does somebody even think programming a radio, switched off inside a box is even possible?

    I'm also seeing addresses that also suggest things about the occupier, or even the suitability of the product they are ordering. One person complained the radio was useless because he could not hear the coastguard. Googling his postcode revealed he lived in a small village near Leicester. Apparently I should make it clear that these radios are only going to work if you live near the sea! Reason for return? Does not work, which is sort of corrct I suppose.

    I don't think I'd get away with adding "unsuitable for owners called Cedric, Charles, Reginald or Royston" and I could add the name of each returning customer to the listings. Or perhaps not. Maybe I need to add a drop down box for their exam qualifications?

    Hi.

    I think I'd be interested in the radio that is being returned.

    I am after a waterproof vhf, with ch16 and lifeboat freq.

    Can you let me know the details and price of the returned item please?
     
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    Yes - I'm aware of the fragility of ebay and off ebay sales.

    I think that as the people struggling are all ancient radio hams - ironically the ones who looked down their noses at any whipper-snapper who couldn't master Morse Code - then as an ex-ham myself, who also mastered morse code, anyone of my age who asks stupid questions I might simply turn away the sale, or perhaps ask a question designed to get them to give away their lack of knowledge?

    If the thick ones had a message from me saying "Hi thanks for the order, do you want me to enter your Digital ID before sending it out? Just let me know what it is?"

    If this brought back a response like "I don't have a Digital ID, where can I get one?" I'd know they are ill prepared and would be likely to return it, so I could cancel the sale?

    If the response was "Very kind, but no need as I can do it when I do the programming" - I'd know they were on the ball?

    What do you think? Is that crafty enough to work?
    Sounds cool, but beware of unintended consequences.
     
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    paulears

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    Jan 7, 2015
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    I’ve got half a dozen of these clever and complicated radios on eBay so have added this text. It will hopefully put the idiots off and while a few may think I’m a Twat, the people who understand will no doubt nod their heads and understand.


    WARNING!!
    If you are considering entering the world of digital radio - please read this section. These are not radios to buy on a whim, or even if your friends have them because frankly, they are a totally different aspect of the ham radio hobby. Despite what anyone tells you, you cannot buy one and expect them to work out of the box. I'm always happy to accept returns, but some of the comments make me wince! Here are some recent comments from customers who really should not have bought them.
    The radio is faulty - no, it needs your digital ID and your repeater information swapping fror my own radio codeplug I sent you to get you going that has MY callsign, ID and MY repeater info.
    I cannot talk to my friends in Greece - entering the Greek repeater details, not your UK local one is quite important.
    I don't have a computer - this made me just say 'wow'
    I upgraded the firmware with a different brand because my friend said they are all the same - er, no they're not, and the radio is as much use now as a brick.
    I want you to program it with every callsign in the world and every repeater - I wish I could, but it would be a considerable amount of typing
    The radio must be faulty - the demo codeplug from your radio that you sent has coastguard in it, and I can't hear them? Er, you live in Leicester, is there a coast to guard?

    Seriously though - DMR involves every owner in considerable amounts of typing and organising what they want the radios to do. Rarely will two hams set their radios up the same, so what the display looks like and how they do things is pretty much up to them. I cannot test if your repeater codeplug will work at your location, I'm not there.

    I have considered stopping selling them on ebay simply because people are not prepared to put in any effort. Those that do, can do amazing things with them and often tell me their radios can do things I didn't even know - but it means a lot of typing, then testing and experimentation and continual tweaking to get the ultimate performance and experience. It's like learning Morse code used to be - it takes effort, but then you can do things others cannot. DMR never stands still. The happy DMR users know all this, but please - don't buy any DMR radio without doing yiour research and asking questions. Join the forums on the net and seek opinions from skilled users. One chap the other day wanted to program his radio without a computer. His callsign was close in time to mine - meaning that he probably doesn't have enough time left in this world to do this. I've decided I'd rather not sell DMR to people who have made no effort to even learn the basics. If this has put you off buying one - that's probably a good thing but if you want to do amazing things, talk to people all over the world, and don't mind a bit of effort - they are really good as a totally new aspect of our hobby. You can buy a Baofeng analogue radio and be on the air in five minutes. DMR is not remotely the same. In real terms - I have never had a single faulty DMR radio back. I have experienced numerous faulty DMR owners! Have fun folks.
     
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