Does anyone employ staff in shift patterns?

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chris.quinn89

  • #1
    I have just had some new time management equipment arrive with me and would love some feedback and thoughts on the matter.

    Basically your staff clock in & out for their shift using their fingerprint so you only pay them for what they actually work. So instead of paying them for an hours work when they actually only worked 57.5mins.

    Any & all feedback would be appreciated :)
     
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    chris.quinn89

  • #3
    No I'm not joking about the 2.5 mins as it all adds up and to be honest 2.5mins is probably an underestimate.

    Imagine you have 10 staff that cost you 2.5 mins per shift that's 25mins you are paying your staff when they are not even working. Lets say you pay them £6 p/h,that's £2.50 per shift you are loosing out on. Two shifts per day that's £5 you are throwing away everyday. Now multiply that by a normal five day week, that's £25.

    What I am suggesting is a clocking system that counts the staff working time by the minute rather than whatever they write down.

    I am in the process of marketing the clocking device and would love to hear some feedback. I am planning on selling for £200 inc VAT. That's a pay back period of approx one month based on the figures I have supplied.
     
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    Retail Recruit UK

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  • #4
    Large retail companies are planning to use a similiar system, allowing staff to cross format and work in different stores. Probably would also focus on the health and safety side for fire evacs etc if it can tell who's in the building?? How much would it cost to repair if breaks (These kind of machines do alot).

    Good Luck
     
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    arcon5

  • #6
    You should also monitor your staff to ensure they remove their jacket BEFORE they clock in to save them valuable few seconds ;).

    On a more serious note though.. the 2.5m aside, I do actually think its a good idea. Where my girlfriend works they suspect when they finish and write the time down, and month end the manager removes the odd 5-10 minites from several shifts. For example, calculating wage for a finish at 11:30 when they finish at 11:40.

    It works both ways, clears up any potential disputes.
    If a member of staff is constantly late then the evidence is already there.
    Also, you could program it to calculate holiday pay!..

    BUT £200 is a little steep.
    I would be interested. I am only a small business employing 2x part-timers so it would come in handy. Your price is based on selling to larger businesses, what about us smallboys? :)

    EDIT: Just read the finger print bit, maybe that does slightly justify the price depending on the complexity on it all. I have't done much research in to such programs so what the typical rate is is unbeknown to me.
     
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    kulture

    kulture

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  • #8
    Indigo Cherry said:
    Glad you're not my boss! lol

    If you started doing that with me, I think I would politely tell you where to stick your job :)
    Click to expand...

    I agree. If you monitor your staff to this level, and penny pinch the payments to the nearest 2.5 mins, then they will reciprocate and give nothing extra back.

    A loose loose situation.

    Yes it is a good idea to have a clocking in system. BUT used sensibly.
     
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    Indigo Cherry

    Indigo Cherry

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  • #10
    chris.quinn89 said:
    I think Indigo & Kulture you forget we are in an employers market - but I can understand your stance on the situation.

    Arcon5 PM me your telephone number and we can sort something out - I just want to get some real world feedback :)
    Click to expand...

    It's not that I forget, I currently emplor 3 people and have employed upto 35 staff before! We used to have (not now) a clocking in system and it worked great! But only because the staff didn't abuse it!

    If we had started to dock the 2.5mins here and 43 seconds there, they would have soon got fed up and either left or just not bother anymore!

    You are correct that it all adds up but trust me, the benefit you will get from happy and willing staff will far outweigh the benefit you will get from docking them money here and there!
     
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    chris.quinn89

  • #11
    Well it's either a matter of you docking them or they you. I think it would probably depend what industry you are in.

    But you wouldn't pay for anything else if you didn't receive it so why pay staff for something they are not providing.

    I don't even think the staff would see it as you where paying them by the minute, I think they would probably find it reliable as they know that as soon as they log on they are getting paid - you never know they might actually be early for a shift.

    Lets all remember when we used to work shift work and it was 11.25pm and you have just finished a long day. Can you honestly say you wouldn't just round it up to 11.30pm? And if you can honestly say you would can you tell me how many of your staff would?
     
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    Mike W

    Mike W

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  • #12
    Indigo Cherry said:
    You are correct that it all adds up but trust me, the benefit you will get from happy and willing staff will far outweigh the benefit you will get from docking them money here and there!
    Click to expand...

    Absolutely!

    I can't imagine, for one second, that wherever that kind of system is employed you'll have a happy workforce.

    And if your justification to yourself for putting it in is they took the p*** before, they'll take even more once it's there.

    There's a lot more to doing a job than working every single second of every single minute.
     
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    Indigo Cherry

    Indigo Cherry

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  • #13
    chris.quinn89 said:
    Well it's either a matter of you docking them or they you. I think it would probably depend what industry you are in.

    But you wouldn't pay for anything else if you didn't receive it so why pay staff for something they are not providing.

    I don't even think the staff would see it as you where paying them by the minute, I think they would probably find it reliable as they know that as soon as they log on they are getting paid - you never know they might actually be early for a shift.

    Lets all remember when we used to work shift work and it was 11.25pm and you have just finished a long day. Can you honestly say you wouldn't just round it up to 11.30pm? And if you can honestly say you would can you tell me how many of your staff would?
    Click to expand...


    I'm not suer how many staff you have but it seems to me (I could be wrong) that you are seeing your staff as just another piece of hired equipment! By all means, don't pay for the time you don't use on that lawn mower you hired but these are people that you work with, people that you will rely on to keep your company running to it's best capacity!

    Personally, I like to treat my staff the way I would like to be treated and I definitely wouldn't like to be treated the way you are planning on treating yours!

    As I said previously! You might might save £50 a week in wages but you will lose £100 in staff productivity!
     
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    arcon5

  • #14
    Some really good points being made here by people who clearly know what they are talking about!

    Nobody is disputing the usefulness of the system your talking about, infact I think everybody would agree it would be good to have. But where the problem lies is the reason behind implementation... your saying because you want to save the 2.5minutes/person/day therefore affecting their wage at the end of the month (as may only be a few quid/person but they won't see i like that!).. if you came and said..

    I have this system, it tracks employees shift patterns, calculates their total worked hours, removes the need to administrate payroll and keeps more accurate records for employer and employee.. oh, and it will save me money at the end of the month.

    The response would be different.

    Do PM me a link or something as I would be interested in seeing it.. but can't promise much since I am soooo busy at the moment and having to deal with some issues with my equipment!
     
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    chris.quinn89

  • #15
    You are interpreting it in the way your staff would feel about it rather than the benefit it would have on your business...

    I know this system wouldn't suit most businesses on this forum I was just interested in your feedback which certainly seems to defend your employees views on the idea.

    But there are many reasons to justifying a system like this to your staff such as;

    saves your time as it is all computerized & automated

    reduces errors on your part so your staff are always paid correctly

    saves on paper trail

    I think it would probably be best suited to cafe and bars where staff come & go...
     
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    Indigo Cherry

    Indigo Cherry

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  • #16
    chris.quinn89 said:
    You are interpreting it in the way your staff would feel about it rather than the benefit it would have on your business...

    I know this system wouldn't suit most businesses on this forum I was just interested in your feedback which certainly seems to defend your employees views on the idea.

    But there are many reasons to justifying a system like this to your staff such as;

    saves your time as it is all computerized & automated

    reduces errors on your part so your staff are always paid correctly

    saves on paper trail

    I think it would probably be best suited to cafe and bars where staff come & go...
    Click to expand...


    Absolutely not! I am not looking at it from a staff's point of view! I'm looking at it from a company point of view! Without paying customers and a good workforce a company is nothing :)

    If you treat your staff this way, your compnay WILL suffer! :)
     
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    DesignerNick

    DesignerNick

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  • #17
    But then what happens when people work for longer and clock out 5 minutes later? Will people start paying extra for that time?

    I think things like this should be taken with a pinch of salt. I know for a fact if an employer tried to dock me for 2.5 minutes but then didn't want to pay me for the 25 minutes I had worked extra the night before I would be a bit annoyed.
     
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    chris.quinn89

  • #19
    Agree with you smarterwebdesigner but what ever system you use surly you are going to pay that member of staff the extra 20mins. Which ever method of recording your staffs hours you have to pay them for it but it they are meant to start at 1pm and walk through the door at 1.05pm then why should you pay them. I think it would also help combat the always late employee.
     
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    arcon5

  • #20
    There are 2 Costas where I am:

    No1: staff don't personally recognise customers, seem demotivated, have no sense of urgency, look at a queue and carry on doing a secondary job instead of concentrating on the people paying their wage.

    No2: staff greet you, smile, fast & effecient, small talk, personally recognised

    So whats the difference between the two:

    No1: manager seems stuckup, tells staff what to do in a demanding way which just screams 'im boss, your worker, do as I say', no manners. Staff don't work together.

    No2: staff can be seen working well together, have a laugh with each other and the manager, manager uses please and thank yous, staff seem to be respected .


    GUESS WHICH ONE I SPEND MY MONEY AT?

    Ye ye, they are both the same company so it doesnt make a different to them, but you get my point right?

    As Indigo says:
    If you treat your staff this way, your compnay WILL suffer! :)
    Click to expand...
     
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    Mike W

    Mike W

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  • #21
    Smarter Webdesign said:
    I think things like this should be taken with a pinch of salt. I know for a fact if an employer tried to dock me for 2.5 minutes but then didn't want to pay me for the 25 minutes I had worked extra the night before I would be a bit annoyed.
    Click to expand...

    A 'bit annoyed'???

    When I was in my 20's I worked for a place that didn't open 'til 10am, yet every day I came in around 9.30am.

    One day, 6 months in, I overslept. I arrived at 10.15am. I was called to the MD's office and given a real coating!

    I'd have told him to stick his job there and then but I had an appointment booked for 11.30am and I had suddenly become desperate to sell it so I could then stick that up his backside.

    So so satisfying when I did.... ;)
     
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    arcon5

  • #22
    chris.quinn89 said:
    Acorn5 you can have one on a free trial to give it a go - if you dont like it come January than I will pay for the return P&P. I just want to see how you find it. Send me an email over to [email protected]
    Click to expand...

    :D :D :D

    Sending my address now :)

    I'll try to get it installed as soon as possible. But like I said, i'm only a small business with 2 part-timers (one is new) so the £200 price tag is probably about 6x too high for me ;)
    I will offer some independant advise which may be valuable to you though.
     
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    DesignerNick

    DesignerNick

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  • #23
    Mike W said:
    A 'bit annoyed'???

    When I was in my 20's I worked for a place that didn't open 'til 10am, yet every day I came in around 9.30am.

    One day, 6 months in, I overslept. I arrived at 10.15am. I was called to the MD's office and given a real coating!

    I'd have told him to stick his job there and then but I had an appointment booked for 11.30am and I had suddenly become desperate to sell it so I could then stick that up his backside.

    So so satisfying when I did.... ;)
    Click to expand...

    I was being polite :)

    Staff will pick up on the underpayment and expect overpayment so it might end up costing you more if you have dedicated staff :)
     
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    chris.quinn89

  • #27
    Indigo - you missing the point, they get paid when then clock in & the shift finishes when then they clock out. Now you may get a few that will wait around the extra min or two before clocking out but they are still getting paid for over time.

    Lets make this simple:

    shift starts at 6pm and finishes at 11pm

    staff clock in at 6.03pm and clock out at 11.17pm so they get paid for exactly what they have worked. You are not cheating them you are ensuring they get paid for what they worked.
     
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    Indigo Cherry

    Indigo Cherry

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  • #28
    chris.quinn89 said:
    Indigo - you missing the point, they get paid when then clock in & the shift finishes when then they clock out. Now you may get a few that will wait around the extra min or two before clocking out but they are still getting paid for over time.

    Lets make this simple:

    shift starts at 6pm and finishes at 11pm

    staff clock in at 6.03pm and clock out at 11.17pm so they get paid for exactly what they have worked. You are not cheating them you are ensuring they get paid for what they worked.
    Click to expand...

    And what happens if they clock in at 05:53?
     
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    chris.quinn89

  • #34
    Didn't know developers still made houses considering its cheaper to buy a house than build one.

    Also cant find anything on the internet suggesting that local councils are giving them away, maybe you could provide a link....
     
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