Do you think I need to do a self-assessment ?

[Biohyt]

Hello everyone. I have two scenarios of which I'm curious about your answers.

1) Would you advice me to complete self assessment, if I had a company, but regardless of the company profits, I do not receive any dividends or salary ? So basically, just keeping the money in the business account of the bank, or sending elsewhere, but never receiving it myself for personal use. Briefly, the company is active, but I am not receiving a dime...

2) If I receive dividends from my company, is there any way to declare my income other than filling the SA100 form ?
Thanks all for your responses.

 

[Lisa Thomas]

One for @MyAccountantOnline

 

[DWS]

One for @MyAccountantOnline

I didn’t realise that you have to be nominated before you are allowed to answer!
So I will bow out of helping the OP with a reply

 

[GLAbusiness]

I hereby nominate all the accountants on this forum to help the OP, if they so desire

 

[Scalloway]

1. No, although as a company director you may still be asked to complete a self assessment.
2. No. You need to complete a self assessment.

 

[Biohyt]

1. No, although as a company director you may still be asked to complete a self assessment.
2. No. You need to complete a self assessment.

Even if there is absolutely no income, would you say that a director may still be asked to complete a SA just because he/she is a director ? I mean no income from anywhere (no income from company or any type of work, or nothing to tax like inheritance etc... someone who lives without earning taxable money or assets).

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Even if there is absolutely no income, would you say that a director may still be asked to complete a SA just because he/she is a director ? I mean no income from anywhere (no income from company or any type of work, or nothing to tax like inheritance etc... someone who lives without earning taxable money or assets).

Its not compulsory to declare a profit you know

 

[Tables Force]

Even if there is absolutely no income, would you say that a director may still be asked to complete a SA just because he/she is a director ?

Yes. HMRC have the power to ask whomever they want to file a return, irrespective of whether that person has (taxable) income or not.

I mean no income from anywhere (no income from company or any type of work, or nothing to tax like inheritance etc... someone who lives without earning taxable money or assets).

So with no income whatsoever, how does this person cover their day-to-day living expenses?

 

[DontAsk]

Yes. HMRC have the power to ask whomever they want to file a return, irrespective of whether that person has (taxable) income or not.

It's how they verify that no tax is payable.

 

[David Griffiths]

Even if there is absolutely no income, would you say that a director may still be asked to complete a SA just because he/she is a director ?

At one time it was customary for HMRC to issue SA returns to all company directors as a matter of course, even if they wouldn't have required one for any normal reason. A lot of people actually thought that if you were a company director you were legally obliged to register for self assessment and complete returns, but that has never been the case. However if HMRC issue a return then it must be completed.

It is some years since HMRC abandoned this policy so it is now highly unlikely that you will get a return just for being a director.

You would be subject to the same rules as everybody else - if you have untaxed income (or income that is not fully taxed) then you must notify HMRC. If you don't have such income, then you have no SA responsibilities

 

[Lisa Thomas]

I didn’t realise that you have to be nominated before you are allowed to answer!
So I will bow out of helping the OP with a reply

You don't have to be nominated. I just tagged the first accountant whose handle I could remember so it would be brought to someone's attention quickly.

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

2) If I receive dividends from my company, is there any way to declare my income other than filling the SA100 form ?

yes

 

[Newchodge]

Even if there is absolutely no income, would you say that a director may still be asked to complete a SA just because he/she is a director ? I mean no income from anywhere (no income from company or any type of work, or nothing to tax like inheritance etc... someone who lives without earning taxable money or assets).

If HMRC ask you to complete a self assessment, you must complete a self assessment. They will be very surprised that an adult can live legitimately in this country without any form of taxable income.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

You don't have to be nominated. I just tagged the first accountant whose handle I could remember so it would be brought to someone's attention quickly.

Thank you very much @Lisa Thomas unfortunately I didn't get the notification. I will check my UKBF settings.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Hello everyone. I have two scenarios of which I'm curious about your answers.

1) Would you advice me to complete self assessment, if I had a company, but regardless of the company profits, I do not receive any dividends or salary ? So basically, just keeping the money in the business account of the bank, or sending elsewhere, but never receiving it myself for personal use. Briefly, the company is active, but I am not receiving a dime...

2) If I receive dividends from my company, is there any way to declare my income other than filling the SA100 form ?
Thanks all for your responses.

1. Have HMRC sent you a tax return to complete?
2. How much is the dividend income?

What other income do you have (taxed and not taxed?)

 

[DontAsk]

They will be very surprised that an adult can live legitimately in this country without any form of taxable income.

Really?

Kids living at home?

Stay at home spouses?

Probably more...

 

[Lisa Thomas]

Thank you very much @Lisa Thomas unfortunately I didn't get the notification. I will check my UKBF settings.

You're welcome.

 

[DontAsk]

DO NOT complete a self-assessment unless you are told to do so by HMRC.

The SA and PAYE systems do not talk to each other and you will create two tax liabilities. That's what happened to my wife.

 

[MikeJ]

DO NOT complete a self-assessment unless you are told to do so by HMRC.

The SA and PAYE systems do not talk to each other and you will create two tax liabilities. That's what happened to my wife.

That's bad advice. If you've undeclared, taxable income, you should fill in a self assessment form. Failing to do so is likely to result in a penalty from HMRC when they find out.

 

[Lisa Thomas]

DO NOT complete a self-assessment unless you are told to do so by HMRC.

The SA and PAYE systems do not talk to each other and you will create two tax liabilities. That's what happened to my wife.

How would HMRC know that someone needs to complete a tax return, if their income isn't declared?

 

[DontAsk]

That's bad advice. If you've undeclared, taxable income, you should fill in a self assessment form.

It probably depends on circumstances, but talk to HMRC first, to clarify the process, if you also have PAYE income. Otherwise it can/will cause problems.

How would HMRC know that someone needs to complete a tax return, if their income isn't declared?

From Scalloway "as a company director you may still be asked to complete a self assessment"

If you also have PAYE and are not asked to complete a self assessment, it will lead to problems if you do complete one. My wife had exactly this issue for 23/24. She'd previously been required to complete a tax return and did one for that year even though she was advised she did not need to. SA tax was assessed and paid and then early this year her account showed she owed the same amount through PAYE. As I said, the two sides of HMRC do not talk to each other.

 

[David Griffiths]

That's bad advice. If you've undeclared, taxable income, you should fill in a self assessment form. Failing to do so is likely to result in a penalty from HMRC when they find out.

That is not correct.

If you have been sent a self assessment form by HMRC then you must complete it. That's simple

However, If you have income which is not fully taxed at source, and you haven't been issued with a return, then the requirement is that you notify HMRC in writing (under the Taxes Management Act 1970), not that you complete a return. If you've never told them about untaxed income then there's a fair chance that you won't have a relevant tax reference or UTR. In fact, if you already have a UTR from past interactions with HMRC then it is still not advisable to complete and submit an unrequested SA return, as there are some circiumstances when HMRC's systems cannot cope with it properly.

Notification can be by letter or by completing registration, online or otherwise, for self assessment. If the income source is self employment then you need to register as self employed to make sure that National Insurance is dealt with correctly - simply completing form SA1 will not be enough.

 

[DontAsk]

In fact, if you already have a UTR from past interactions with HMRC then it is still not advisable to complete and submit an unrequested SA return, as there are some circiumstances when HMRC's systems cannot cope with it properly.

Thank you for confirming what my wife experienced

 

[MikeJ]

That is not correct.

If you have been sent a self assessment form by HMRC then you must complete it. That's simple

However, If you have income which is not fully taxed at source, and you haven't been issued with a return, then the requirement is that you notify HMRC in writing (under the Taxes Management Act 1970), not that you complete a return. If you've never told them about untaxed income then there's a fair chance that you won't have a relevant tax reference or UTR. In fact, if you already have a UTR from past interactions with HMRC then it is still not advisable to complete and submit an unrequested SA return, as there are some circiumstances when HMRC's systems cannot cope with it properly.

Notification can be by letter or by completing registration, online or otherwise, for self assessment. If the income source is self employment then you need to register as self employed to make sure that National Insurance is dealt with correctly - simply completing form SA1 will not be enough.

I've just run this based solely on having more than £10k income from investments, and it told me to fill in a tax return.

Check if you need to send a Self Assessment tax return

Use this tool to find out if you need to send a tax return for the 2025 to 2026 tax year (6 April 2025 to 5 April 2026).

www.gov.uk

 

[David Griffiths]

I've just run this based solely on having more than £10k income from investments, and it told me to fill in a tax return.

Check if you need to send a Self Assessment tax return

Use this tool to find out if you need to send a tax return for the 2025 to 2026 tax year (6 April 2025 to 5 April 2026).

www.gov.uk

The link takes you to a page that says "Check if you need to tell HMRC"

The only thing that matters is the law. If HMRC do not send you a tax return you do not need to complete one. You do need to tell them that you have income that has not been fully taxed.