Do I need Public Liability AND Employers' Liability Insurance

[Sue105]

I am a Self-Employed Landscape Gardener. Occasionally I have a family member help me out with clearing up etc. He will help me less than 50 days year.

I need insurance to cover 3rd party damage to our clients properties and gardens.

I am not looking to insure either of us for accident/injury to ourselves.

AXA (just, as an example) states in their Public Liability policy wording that cover is provided for 50 days temporary work which seems to suggest that I don't need Employers' Liability.

BUT the online quote asks to me to include ALL/ANY employees, regardless of no of days worked. My quote then includes Employers' Liability insurance.

It would seem you can't have the 50 days cover for temporary empoyees included in Public Liability, without also taking out Employers' Liability.

Am I right?

 

[Mr D]

You are talking about 2 different insurances.

Does your public liability policy specifically cover employers liability insurance?

 

[Sue105]

You are talking about 2 different insurances.

Does your public liability policy specifically cover employers liability insurance?

No. But can I "employ" my brother on a casual basis to help out occasionally without having Employers' Liability Insurance?

 

[Deleted member 59730]

You need insurance full stop. Public Liability could cover you if you injure a member of the public while unloading a van, while a tree blows down, while a fence blows across someone's car.

 

[Scalloway]

But can I "employ" my brother on a casual basis to help out occasionally without having Employers' Liability Insurance?

No you need Employers' Liability Insurance.

 

[WaveJumper]

This what you get when you Google

Do you need employers liability insurance if you are a sole trader?

"While you may operate the business as a sole-trader, if you employ one member of staff or more, it is a legal requirement for you to have employers' liability cover. This will cover claims from employees of injury or illness, caused by their work"

Normal cover is 5m or more

However:
Do I need employers liability insurance for family members?

"Do I need employer's liability insurance for family members? In short, no. If you employ an immediate family member, the law doesn't require you to have employer's liability insurance"

Personally I would get covered anyway you never know what around the corner and its surprising how a close family member can suddenly be a distant family member when things go wrong.

You defiantly need public liabilty 10m

 

[Sue105]

I am definitely going to get Public Liability, I was unsure about Employers' Liability.

 

[WaveJumper]

I am definitely going to get Public Liability, I was unsure about Employers' Liability.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/hse40.pdf

 

[oz07]

I would say no to employers liability. Yes to public.

Your brother would have to be self employed meaning there would be a few theoretical tests. He may supply his own tools or PPE, you may also give him a price per job or measured rates. He would, or should, need his own pub liability insurance but it may be cheaper for him to get this and reflected in his rate compared to you providing employers liability.

 

[Sue105]

Wave Jumper

Reading that document has answered my question. No, I do not need Employers' Liability at this stage.

Thank you.

 

[Mr D]

I would say no to employers liability. Yes to public.

Your brother would have to be self employed meaning there would be a few theoretical tests. He may supply his own tools or PPE, you may also give him a price per job or measured rates. He would, or should, need his own pub liability insurance but it may be cheaper for him to get this and reflected in his rate compared to you providing employers liability.

And more importantly, the OP should be able to convince HMRC or whoever that the brother isn't a disguised employee.

 

[DontAsk]

AXA (just, as an example) states in their Public Liability policy wording that cover is provided for 50 days temporary work which seems to suggest that I don't need Employers' Liability.

Pick up the 'phone and ask AXA exactly what they mean by this.

 

[Sue105]

DontAsk
I tried that - the person I spoke to wasn't very knowledgable. Today they aren't available either by phone or online chat. I needed to get something in place today, so I thought I'd try on here. Glad I did.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Wave Jumper

Reading that document has answered my question. No, I do not need Employers' Liability at this stage.

Thank you.

The peace of mind of Employers Liability is worth having.

Most people think of minor accidents, something the relative wouldn't dream of claiming for, cut finger, something in their eye. Until the cut finger turns into septis which leads to the patient spending weeks in hospital, leaving to require 24/7 care. That's when they have no alternative but to claim against you in order to survive.

 

[IANL]

The one insurance many self employed people forget to obtain is Income Protection insurance. If you cannot work or do your job, can you afford to keep running your household? You would probably want an 'own occupation' clause -

 

[WaveJumper]

Where's @Frank the Insurance guy when we need him

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

Where's @Frank the Insurance guy when we need him

I'm Here !

Employers' Liability insurance is not a legal requirement if the "employee" is your brother.

However, this does not prevent your brother making a claim against you if he suffers an injury whilst working for you. How would you deal with legal action against you - particularly if its a serious life changing injury!

For the sake of a few quid, I would suggest having Employers' liability cover, but its your choice at the end of the day.

With some insurers, they like to insist on Employers' liability cover if you mention you have any employees (whether family or not) - this is likely the case with your AXA policy.

 

[presentationgenius]

Employers' Liability insurance is not a legal requirement if the "employee" is your brother.

This might be a naive question but wouldn't the whole issue be side-stepped if the brother had his own insurance as a self-employed person (or something like that) ?

 

[Frank the Insurance guy]

This might be a naive question but wouldn't the whole issue be side-stepped if the brother had his own insurance as a self-employed person (or something like that) ?

Lets say the brother has his own Income protection cover, or personal accident insurance - he suffers serious life changing injury and his insurers pay out £100K+ in medical costs etc. The brothers insurers will then look to see how it was caused and may well take full legal action against the original poster if he caused the injury due to his negligence as employer.

Its unlikely there will be an issue if small injury, but often when its serious other parties get involved and it will be outside the brothers control to prevent legal action being taken.