Do Brits hate success?

[BusinessIdeas]

I often hear people being derogatory about successful people, and lots of people in this country seem to resent the fact that other people are more fortunate, richer, better looking etc. I just wonder why this view seems so prevalent in the UK and maybe not so in the USA for instance. Anybody have any idea why this should be so?

 

[mpen]

I often hear people being derogatory about successful people, and lots of people in this country seem to resent the fact that other people are more fortunate, richer, better looking etc. I just wonder why this view seems so prevalent in the UK and maybe not so in the USA for instance. Anybody have any idea why this should be so?

We love the underdog, as soon as the underdog becomes successful we seem to try to knock them back down

 

[maria102]

Read the Daily Hail online, its breathtaking how nasty people are, particularly about successful women.

 

[Beachcomber]

Oh dear - pet hate time, excuse the rant.................but..........

It's ingrained in our national phycology.

We teach our kids to work hard, study hard and achieve good exam grades so they can get good jobs.

So what do the collective public do when kids study hard and achieve good grades? We have the annual record pass rates for GCSE / A level exams followed by the inevitable backlash branding the exams too easy, the education system is dumbing down and the results of all that hard work are worthless.

People strive to build a good career - work hard, chase promotion, put in the extra effort and achieve a high level of success. Are they praised for their achievements and held as an example to inspire others?

No. they are branded fat cats, reviled for their success and ridiculed.

All this time kids see the very pond life of society achieve 'celebrity' status despite the complete lack of skills, talent, charisma or sentience and we are supposed to instill 'values'?

Most of this is a consequense of the media - stirring hate and mistrust for the sake of selling a few extra rags. A classic case in point is the outcry over Fred Goodwins pension payout.............

All the media were demanding the pension be clawed back because of the problems caused by his actions and desicions while in office - but if this action were to be the norm then we could have examples of pensioners who have their company pensions slashed despite many years of service because they were not that good at their job, made errors or were just generally rubbish. Of course, clawing back pensions from the working classes would not be popular, it's only good to target the well to do

Hypocrisy at it's worst.

 

[lockie]

The ones who hate it are the ones who deep down wish they had done something better with their own lives.Seeing others doing just that takes them out their comfort zones and they resent rather than applaud.

 

[Cornish Steve]

Having lived in the US for many years and travelled the world over, there are some distinctively British traits. For sure, some Brits resent success, but there are people in the US like that too - so it's not unique. More particular to Britain, we don't have the liberating sense that we can achieve anything, which is a shame. We also tend to lack self-confidence. The flip side of that is that Americans often seem cocky, but that's because they're taught from the cradle that they are the best and can achieve anything. It would be nice if a little of that (not all of it!) rubbed off on us.

 

[BusinessIdeas]

It seems to me that a lot of the population seem obsessed with celebrity too, but maybe that is a trait of one particular echelon of society (trying hard not to be too judgemental)

 

[mangoprint]

I wonder what country is most applauding of the successful?

 

[MH1]

More particular to Britain, we don't have the liberating sense that we can achieve anything, which is a shame. We also tend to lack self-confidence. The flip side of that is that Americans often seem cocky, but that's because they're taught from the cradle that they are the best and can achieve anything. It would be nice if a little of that (not all of it!) rubbed off on us.

Totally agree.

I was selling to a guy once in his house and left quite depressed, he had a two month old son in the room with him. At one stage he mentioned how his father had been a bin man, how he was a bin man, and how his son would grow up to be a bin man.

No wonder some people see no way to improve their lot in life.

 

[Zeno]

Successful is relative so therefore we cannot all be.

I assume we are talking about material wealth as the measure so you have to bear in mind that not eveyone has the same motivations.

Some people will be happy to pay the rent, others will not be until they have bought land, a title and the trophy wife.

 

[onmyown]

I often hear people being derogatory about successful people, and lots of people in this country seem to resent the fact that other people are more fortunate, richer, better looking etc. I just wonder why this view seems so prevalent in the UK and maybe not so in the USA for instance. Anybody have any idea why this should be so?

I don't think Brits hate success, i just think a lot of people have a jelous and negative attitude to those who drive expensive cars and live in nice houses - ie, those who have been succesful.

I've never been in a country where material objects others have has been such a problem for so many and spark such a negative response

 

[An Oasis]

he had a two month old son in the room with him. At one stage he mentioned how his father had been a bin man, how he was a bin man, and how his son would grow up to be a bin man.

No wonder some people see no way to improve their lot in life.

Thanks goodness for bin men! Much respect to them, it's not a job that I could do.

 

[Peter Bowen]

Many years ago the British were ruthless and successful. A few million people on a tiny wet island set the agenda for the rest of the world.

Their great grand children seem to be ashamed of that fighting spirit. Kids educated at a school that has banned peanut butter sandwiches just in case one of the 500 kids might be allergic to a nut are likely to grow up a little risk averse (as mine now are).

Rabbits kept in cages don't get eaten by foxes. They also don't run free on the hills.

All that said - I love the place.

 

[thebigIAM]

Personally, I feel the public is justified in banging on about Sir Fred the Shred's pension.

There's a world of difference between someone who sets up a company, makes it successful and enjoys the benefits of it, and someone who works within a corporation, drives an expansion without due regard to risk management, becomes a liability to the taxpayer and retires on wads of cash.

Just my opinion.

 

[BusinessIdeas]

Personally, I feel the public is justified in banging on about Sir Fred the Shred's pension.

There's a world of difference between someone who sets up a company, makes it successful and enjoys the benefits of it, and someone who works within a corporation, drives an expansion without due regard to risk management, becomes a liability to the taxpayer and retires on wads of cash.

Just my opinion.

Would we give it back tho'?

 

[Subbynet]

Its a case of opportunities I feel instead of outright jealousy, because a few years ago everyone I know was aspiring to the big house nice car lots of money ideal lifestyle. (Hence the economic problems now)

Being British, what do you have to look forward too?

Maybe ten years of high taxes, the knowledge that finding a job will become harder, the fact that politicians are lining their pockets at our expense, that the English are given a raw deal from the Barnet Formula. That the MP's we appoint to run our country only account for 15% of the new laws foisted upon us...

The nation is being ripped apart internally by nationalists, while at the same time being gobbled up by the EU... (Figure that one out!)

People are feeling robbed right now... Some people worked hard at school, I know I tried too, but I look at some kids leaving school today and wonder - HOW did you get entered for so many exams? (And managed to pass most of them?) I take it they still have the same school week as in years gone by... So where did they find all this time to learn so many more subjects?

They look to the years in Uni, all that work to get a degree, but now its hardly worth the paper its written on...

Then other annoying things, like on-the-spot fines, parking fines, speed traps and any other type of crime paid for by way of a fine... If you've got money, its hardly any skin off your nose to do wrong.

......

And just to put the ball on the other foot... Honestly, do you ever hear people praising the millions on the dole? It doesn't happen....

Take an issue - "money", give it a dividing line - "rich and poor", then attack the two sides... Divide and Rule - a British trait since 1878.

 

[thebigIAM]

He wouldn't have saved himself from any vilification if he had given it back. He's going to spend the rest of his life symbolising something which the public finds contemptible.

Unless he does something terribly worthy and manages to reinvent himself.

Me, I think the Brits love a rags to riches story. But they also like stories about seriously wealthy people who never flaunt it.

 

[Stephen Berry]

his father had been a bin man, how he was a bin man, and how his son would grow up to be a bin man...

A bin man may teach some people a surprising lesson - don't knock them.

During university a friend was temping as a bin man to generate some cash. One man from the very posh end of town was remonstrating that he wanted his garden rubbish (green waste) taken too. Mark refused stating that he was unable to take 'domestic waste'. The man continued arguing that it was not domestic waste as it was from the garden. Mark's 'slam-dunk' line was .....
'It is domestic, from the latin 'domus' meaning 'of the home' ...'
A latin lesson from the bin man - or as they say in Rome .... "te amat iesus, ceteri te putant irrumatorem"

 

[Pap_sak]

Personally, I feel the public is justified in banging on about Sir Fred the Shred's pension.

There's a world of difference between someone who sets up a company, makes it successful and enjoys the benefits of it, and someone who works within a corporation, drives an expansion without due regard to risk management, becomes a liability to the taxpayer and retires on wads of cash.

Just my opinion.

I agree, there is a difference between a Bill Gates and a Sir Fred. The one should enjoy the fruits of his labors and his entrepreneurial spirit (even if slightly ruthless), the other piggy-backed his way in there.

 

[MH1]

A bin man may teach some people a surprising lesson - don't knock them.

Thanks goodness for bin men! Much respect to them, it's not a job that I could do.

I never disrespect anyone doing an honest days work, you both misunderstood my point, the babies father couldn't see his lad doing anything else with his life, that is what I found despressing.

 

[Beachcomber]

Personally, I feel the public is justified in banging on about Sir Fred the Shred's pension.

Sorry, but I have to disagree.
Are you seriously suggesting that a final pension be dependant on compentance, performance and company success while in the job?

So if teachers retire should they have a percentage of their pensions clawed back if their classes exam pass rate is below average? Would you happily claw back 75% of a pension of a bus driver who had a series of accidents over the course of his career?

Pensions the size of Fred Goodwins are fairly normal when operating at that executive level - it's only the media led drivel that is blowing it out of all proportion, another example of this countries hatred of success.

So the guy may have been a disaster, cost thousands of jobs and millions in taxpayers money - but do we seriously think he acted alone and was soley responsible for this? He was simply part of a machine doing what everyone was doing to make money. Now he's become nothing more than a scapegoat.

 

There's only one cake and if someone takes more than there fair share we get p1ssed.

God bless Bin men now thats a really worth while job.

And maybe they all like there job,plenty of fresh air ( well maybe not )

Its a major problem in society putting people in pidgin holes by there occupations.

Earl

 

[cal900]

We all say Brits hate success but I dont know many people who knock the likes of Richard Branson and others like him :|

 

We all say Brits hate success but I dont know many people who knock the likes of Richard Branson and others like him :|

I can't stand the smarmy little crook.

Made his first couple of bob smuggling records in from France.

Mr nice I think not ask the Virgin staff about old creepy scrooge.

There you go.

Earl

 

[Florian B. B.]

Read the Daily Hail online, its breathtaking how nasty people are, particularly about successful women.

I doN't know what the Daily Hail is, have never read it
but I hope it's Not the newspaper The Daily _M_ail that you meant.

The Daily Hail might reflect pathetic-men's pathetic opinions, so-called "men" like philip the Pants-man from the Apprentice who was so full of it, he must have thought he was God's gift to women + the Manager/BusinessMAN of the _Universe_ .
At least he is young, has time to grow up (learn business and Manners) but I encountered another philip who is so old but still so rude, envious of (successful) ladies. He is a failure, a nobody therefore hates women, especially smart women! Freud would say it's because his mum was immoral and stupid.

Maybe ladies should have been in charge of the WORLD's banks !?!

Multi-millionaire Theo P. from Dragons' Den , said that lots of ladies are SMARTer than him! His buddy Peter Jones, stated on camera to a lady of average IQ (she was seeking an investment): " You are smarter than me, which might be a problem"

 

[maria102]

I doN't know what the Daily Hail is, have never read it
but I hope it's Not the newspaper The Daily _M_ail that you meant.

The Daily Hail might reflect pathetic-men's pathetic opinions, so-called "men" like philip the Pants-man from the Apprentice who was so full of it, he must have thought he was God's gift to women + the Manager/BusinessMAN of the _Universe_ .
At least he is young, has time to grow up (learn business and Manners) but I encountered another philip who is so old but still so rude, envious of (successful) ladies. He is a failure, a nobody therefore hates women, especially smart women! Freud would say it's because his mum was immoral and stupid.

Maybe ladies should have been in charge of the WORLD's banks !?!

Multi-millionaire Theo P. from Dragons' Den , said that lots of ladies are SMARTer than him! His buddy Peter Jones, stated on camera to a lady of average IQ (she was seeking an investment): " You are smarter than me, which might be a problem"

God knows what your point is, but yes I did mean that pile of sh*te the Daily Mail.

 

[NuBlue]

God knows what your point is, but yes I did mean that pile of sh*te the Daily Mail.

Me neither but I couldn't agree more abou the daily mail.... I hate that paper and everything it stands for.

As a relatively young person myself (26) and now having been in business for five years I find that I get quite a bit of respect from my peers who see what I have done as being enviable and to date I can't remember ever feeling hatred towards me due to being succesful.

I think it may be a generation thing from when there were clearer divides betweeen the well off and the not so well off. I think the younger generation tend to not have as much of an 'us and them' attitude as of old. IMHO

 

[thebigIAM]

Hi Beachcomber.

Actually, if a teacher has too many classes where the exam pass rate is below average, I think the reasons should be thoroughly investigated long before that teacher draws a pension. And if the reason is because of incompetence, then he or she should have been retrained, and if that failed, sacked.

Similarly, the same applies to bus drivers who have too many accidents.

I'm fairly confident bad bus drivers at present do get sacked. Not so sure about bad teachers though.

Good teachers are worth their weight in gold. Now, if you could have a pension based on how many people came back 20 years' later and reminisced on the really good, inspiring, wonderful teachers they had, I would be in total support of such a scheme.

Yes, I think pensions should reflect on how well the job was done. That's exactly what happens to most self employed people, don't you think?

As for pensions reflecting on how well the worker's company has performed ... what about all those people who worked 30 years for a firm which then went bust three years before they were due to retire and then lost the lot? Have you ever studied the details of the government's lifeboat scheme for those people? Scant comfort there for them!

I agree Sir Fred is nothing more than a representative of a lot of things that went wrong and he might have got targeted somewhat. Do I feel much sympathy? No.

 

[onmyown]

I doN't know what the Daily Hail is, have never read it
but I hope it's Not the newspaper The Daily _M_ail that you meant.

The Daily Hail might reflect pathetic-men's pathetic opinions, so-called "men" like philip the Pants-man from the Apprentice who was so full of it, he must have thought he was God's gift to women + the Manager/BusinessMAN of the _Universe_ .
At least he is young, has time to grow up (learn business and Manners) but I encountered another philip who is so old but still so rude, envious of (successful) ladies. He is a failure, a nobody therefore hates women, especially smart women! Freud would say it's because his mum was immoral and stupid.

Maybe ladies should have been in charge of the WORLD's banks !?!

Multi-millionaire Theo P. from Dragons' Den , said that lots of ladies are SMARTer than him! His buddy Peter Jones, stated on camera to a lady of average IQ (she was seeking an investment): " You are smarter than me, which might be a problem"

WOW - you have some issues i think you should talk to someone about

 

[thebigIAM]

Aw. Just when I get comfortable with my holier-than-thou stuff, something happens to knock me off the perch.

Did you see St Andrews golf club members have blackballed Sir Fred and now apparently he might not be able to join?

All I can say is, shame on St Andrews. I'm sure he'd be an interesting enough guy to play golf with. I'd certainly play with him if I was a golfer. I'd only not play with him if I thought he was boring.

The other fascinating fact from the article I read said he was 50. No! Really? I would have guessed he was at least ten years older than that. Wow.

 

[Beachcomber]

Hi Beachcomber.

Actually, if a teacher has too many classes where the exam pass rate is below average, I think the reasons should be thoroughly investigated long before that teacher draws a pension. And if the reason is because of incompetence, then he or she should have been retrained, and if that failed, sacked.

Similarly, the same applies to bus drivers who have too many accidents.

I'm fairly confident bad bus drivers at present do get sacked. Not so sure about bad teachers though.

You kind of missed the point - If a worker fails to perform while in the position then yes, they should be retrained / reassessed / sacked etc. But is it fair to claw back a pansion after the worker has retired if incompetance and mismanagement come to light at a later date?

That's nothing more than spite and a media driven witchhunt seeking individuals to blame and exact 'revenge' for their 'crimes'- a favourite passtime of the Daily Mail and an utterly pointless task.

 

[Eleanor]

I didn't realise how true this was until I caught myself doing the exact same thing. And I am ashamed of myself.

I think it boils down to jealousy and a very old and outdated work mentality.

 

[movietub]

Maybe a big part of the problem is that the government seems to target and penalise people the general public at large see as succesful!

The government alienate successful individuals. Thats a shame as striving for success, amibition and innovation are amongst the greatest strengths British people have.

 

[gamer1810]

You kind of missed the point - If a worker fails to perform while in the position then yes, they should be retrained / reassessed / sacked etc. But is it fair to claw back a pansion after the worker has retired if incompetance and mismanagement come to light at a later date?

With respect, I think you have missed the point, I would have no problem with Sir Fred retiring on his massive pension if he had been successful, grown RBS, created jobs and security for his employees etc etc..

.. But he didnt, through his "leadership" he has turned a successful 200 year old business into a pile of sh*t, with thousands of ordinary employees set to lose thier jobs and millions of £'s wiped of the balance sheet. Not to mention the part he played in the huge general economic mess this country is now in.

Its not jealousy, it holding people accountable and Sir Fred is accountable, there has to be some price that he should pay.

 

[kzhang8110]

The same situation in china now,most people resent the rich,but we don't resent who make enough money by his/her hard work legally,what we hate is that they make money illegally,but that is popular in china because the government and the poor law!!!

 

[Wendy.Rule]

The same situation in china now,most people resent the rich,but we don't resent who make enough money by his/her hard work legally,what we hate is that they make money illegally,but that is popular in china because the government and the poor law!!!

Interesting that we find the government here too draconian, and in China there are not enough laws. Shame the pendulum does not swing to the middle for both countries.

 

[crazyshady]

I had to laugh a little at the man who spoke about his son growing up to become a dustbin man lol. I suppose its kind of cute in a way. Nothing wrong with that job at all and its an honest hardworking and good paying job and like most say, if you got a job with the council that means you have a a job for life basically. Its kind of nice that he wants his son to grow up to do that job, at least he knows he is making an honest wage.

 

[Beachcomber]

With respect, I think you have missed the point.........Its not jealousy, it holding people accountable and Sir Fred is accountable, there has to be some price that he should pay.

Sir Fred was just one of many players in an age old game - I find it quite staggering how everyone seems to be so utterly shocked that the banking industry was riddled with under the counter dealing, backhanders, book-fiddling etc - its' been like that for a good 300 years+!

Moralistic hysteria (similar to that we are currently seeing over MP's expenses) is a rather pityful social disease.

I'm not saying it's right what he did - just that if we are to punish him, we will also need to punish all those guilty of incompetance whether they be a banker or checkout worker. It's best explained by this analogy:

If a refuse tip or incinerator is built at the end of your road and your house price plummets, do you think you should be entitled to compensation?
If so, then if a new school, road link, shops, lesure centre etc. was built in your local area thus raising the value of your house - would it be acceptable for you be required to pay a contribution?

Can't have it both ways.

 

[waveuponwave]

We love the underdog, as soon as the underdog becomes successful we seem to try to knock them back down

I absolutely agree with this. There seems to be a real culture of mediocrity in the UK, both at a business and individual level. In the US, excellence is encouraged and general standards seem to be higher, but there's also less stigma attached to failure - as long as you tried.

You can even see it in schools: in the UK it's not cool to be smart so when the teacher asks a question no-one responds. In the US, everyone raises their hand and gets involved, and no-one cares if they're wrong.

It's a generalisation and I don't know what causes it, but it seems to start at an early age.

 

[crazyshady]

We need to follow their example. We need to attack this problem at its core - the parents. I suggest all of us here at the UKBusinessforums meet up in lets say a....'business' environment such as an office or desolated storage area, lock ourselves away for apporixmately 6 months and proceed to reproduce and create a fountain of love. When we leave we will integrate back into society until our superchildren are born, we will craft and mould them and release them freely into the 'wild' of the suburbs at which point we will retreat back to our hideout and continue to reproduce. Ideally we will do this over a 10 year period creating enough children to populate a city.

During our time away we might end up losing our minds, forgetting people and possibly forgetting the English language altogether. It is during this time we will rely on the education system to teach our superchildren these things. Those of us who arent susepitable to such an illness will write memoirs about our times locked away. One day this will be published and we will be known the world over. Children will read our books and think 'damn those UKBFr's sure changed this world round, its a shame their extinct'