Dismissal or Resign?

[john star]

Hi All,

Not sure if this is have been covered but I'm confused as to what I can do.

I have been invited to a disciplinary hearing with my employer having had a few already in relation to the same issue. I have to say that I am in the wrong and probably took advantage of the situation.
I've been there for 2.5 years.

I won't go too much into the detail of that issue other than it is performance related, but I have had a verbal warning, a written warning and also a final warning.

Having now been invited to a disciplinary again, I believe this final step will be a dismissal.

My question is if I am allowed to resign with immediate effect, although this is what it says in my contract:

The Employment shall be terminable by the Company or the Employee serving written notice on the other which period of notice shall be longer of:

- 1 month's written notice; or
- 1 week's written notice for each complete year of the Employee's continuous service with the company up to maximum of 12 weeks' written notice, after 12 years' continuous service.

I'm worried about what will happen and if I'm allowed to resign immediately so that they do not have the opportunity to dismiss me.

Can they also refuse my immediate resignation and still carry on with the disciplinary and dismiss me?

So should I not resign with immediate effect? Would that not put a stop to the disciplinary proceedings and just end it all.

They can still dismiss me if I resign with a month's notice, as the disciplinary hearing is on Thursday.

If they're more than likely to dismiss me anyway, would an immediate resignation not help me my chances in future employment.
Or could I go in with an immediate resignation and negotiate a basic reference perhaps?

I would appreciate anyone's advice on what I can do.

 

[Mr D]

The dismissal would take effect there and then?

 

[john star]

Hi Mr D, thanks for your quick response I'm not sure to be honest, seems like to would give me a notice period perhaps.
But I'm just wondering what to do in this situation?

 

[Newchodge]

You can resign whenever you like and you can refuse to give notice. They cannot refuse to accept your resignation any more than you, if they dismiss you, could refuse to accept your dismissal. If you resign before the disciplinary hearing is concluded you cannot be dismissed because, having resigned, you are not an employee and so cannot be dismissed.

I once had a client who attended a serious disciplinary meeting, asked for an adjurnment after hearing the strength of the evidence against him, and after a 10 minute discussion with me, I went back in with his resignation with immediate effect. They weren't happy but there was nothing they could do.

If you resign your ex employer is entitled to put in your reference that you resigned during disciplinary proceedings that may have resulted in your dismissal and can include your past disciplinary history.

Your best bet is to discuss with them what they would be prepared to do IF you resign. Once you have resigned they don't have to do anything.

 

[john star]

Thanks for your reply.

My line manager was very vague and was being difficult with me when I did mention this to him that I had received a letter inviting me to a disciplinary hearing that would probably lead to my dismissal.
All he said was that it is down to HR and he cannot have any say in the matter, but what resonated with me are his final words: "You left it too late".

With regards to the reference, Could I not put down a colleague/manager in a similar position at my line manager that I have worked with successfully? Would this not help me?

 

[Mr D]

Thanks for your reply.

My line manager was very vague and was being difficult with me when I did mention this to him that I had received a letter inviting me to a disciplinary hearing that would probably lead to my dismissal.
All he said was that it is down to HR and he cannot have any say in the matter, but what resonated with me are his final words: "You left it too late".

With regards to the reference, Could I not put down a colleague/manager in a similar position at my line manager that I have worked with successfully? Would this not help me?

In previous jobs I have asked for reference on candidates many times.
Often they had put down named managers. Every employer that had me request references had instruction to contact HR / personnel manager at the employer for the reference.
Managers move on, HR access relevant records.

 

[john star]

What would be the best thing to do in this situation?

 

[john star]

Would it be best to perhaps request for a basic reference from my employer? Can I do that?

 

[obscure]

If you resign your ex employer is entitled to put in your reference that you resigned during disciplinary proceedings that may have resulted in your dismissal and can include your past disciplinary history.

And if you resign without notice they could also add that you breached your contract by failing to give contractual/statutory notice.

 

[Newchodge]

And if you resign without notice they could also add that you breached your contract by failing to give contractual/statutory notice.

Yes, they could.

 

[john star]

What would you advise I do in this situation, is it best to resign immediately and avoid being dismissed. Or should I hand in my month's notice and also attend the hearing? Where they will most probably dismiss me anyway.

 

[Jeff FV]

One factor that might be worth considering is your ability to claim benefits - if necessary- once you have left your current employment.

I am no expert, so please take advice from those that know, but I suspect you may not be able to claim certain benefits if you resign from a job (I.e. you made yourself out of work), I suspect the rules may be different if you are dismissed.

I am surmising that the reason you may be considering “resigning” rather than being dismissed is so you don’t have to put “dismissed” as a reason for leaving when applying for new jobs?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

A company is not forced into giving a reference and may chose to ignore any request made by another firm or may give one with either a statutory they worked here for 2 years full stop or give the full facts, though this is not normal as it can lead to further problems if worded wrong

Maybe resign and tell the truth at the next interview "I made a big mistake but have learnt not to repeat it" or something like that. probably better than lying and being caught out

 

[STDFR33]

A company is not forced into giving a reference and may chose to ignore any request made by another firm or may give one with either a statutory they worked here for 2 years full stop or give the full facts, though this is not normal as it can lead to further problems if

I find that a job title and dates worked is the most common type of reference.

 

[john star]

Should I ask my line manager to put it in writing that no further disciplinary action will be taken against me?

 

[Newchodge]

Should I ask my line manager to put it in writing that no further disciplinary action will be taken against me?

Do you mean if you decide not to resign? why on earth would they do that. And if you resign, they can't take action against you.

With regard to benefits, it is my understanding that you have problems claiming if it is your fault. That would be the same if you redign or if you are dismissed.

 

[john star]

Sorry I mean't if I hand in my immediate resignation, should I ask for a basic reference and no further disciplinary action in my letter.

 

[Newchodge]

Sorry I mean't if I hand in my immediate resignation, should I ask for a basic reference and no further disciplinary action in my letter.

NO. Do not resign. Go to HR as soon as you can and ask IF you resign will they give you an agreed reference. Don't do anything until you have done that.

I told you before

Your best bet is to discuss with them what they would be prepared to do IF you resign. Once you have resigned they don't have to do anything.

 

[john star]

What if they say that they cannot make any guarantee's about this?

 

[Newchodge]

What if they say that they cannot make any guarantee's about this?

Then decide what to do.

 

[john star]

Or that they cannot discuss that until the hearing has been completed...for example

 

[john star]

Or if, for example they say that cannot discuss until after the hearing...

 

[Mr D]

Should I ask my line manager to put it in writing that no further disciplinary action will be taken against me?

1. Does he have that authority?
2. Does it matter?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Companies normally write to your old company to ask for a reference and may well not take your letter as gospel as letters are so easy to forge these days

A Company does not have to state you were a bad employer, but can say something that is true to your request, but suggest it was not happy with your time there, like just suppling xxx worked for us from xx xxx 2016 to xx xxx 2028.

Many managers would take that as a questionable reference and want to dig further if they felt the need to hire you over others who had glowing references

 

[john star]

To all you posters on this thread and people who have viewed it for they're own knowledge,

I'd like to firstly thank you all for your help and opinions during this time.
I really appreciate all of your comments, and to be honest, I wasn't sure where to turn to during this festive period with many organisations being closed.
But as I needed this resolved fairly quickly, this was the best place to ask.

So the update I can provide is the following:

I initially went into work on Monday with the intention to resign with immediate effect, but as Newchodge had pointed out that I firstly speak to HR and find out what my reference would say IF I was to resign. (So thank you for that)
Which I was told that it was just state basic information: The position I worked and effectively the dates I worked. That's it. Which is fair and probably what I'd need it to say based on the circumstances.

I then went to speak to my line manager, Apologised for what had happened over the period of time it had and took full responsibility for it and handed in my resignation, effective immediately.
I was polite and easy with him and suggested that I would work until the end of the day, hand over any work and happy to make it as easy as possible for them.
He accepted it and just suggested that he needs to check things over with HR, as I had not provided the correct notice period.

A hour or two later, I was invited to one of our directors office who was disappointed in what had just happened but also was happy to accept this.
However due the fact I had not provided enough notice, there was a shortage of staff problem.
They decided that as I had resigned, they would cancel any pending disciplinary actions and the meeting to be held on Thursday, in return I would have to carry out my notice period.

I accepted this straight away and again stressed that I had no problem in working out my notice period, if they could provide in writing that they would cancel any actions against me.

Purely my opinion, but as this time of year is kind of period when some business' close their financial books etc. There was pending work that only I knew how to do in my dept (that I know off) and again the issue with staff shortages at the moment, perhaps lead to this decision with the director and my manager. I could be wrong, but I guess this was a slightly better outcome for all parties involved.

I am very thankful for the outcome and was not happy I would say as I was on my way out. But thankful to my manager and director for what they did, as they didn't have to that.

But as its a new year, I guess it was time for a change and for me to do something different. I'm a firm believer that everything happens for a reason. So maybe it was just time to move on.

So I'm now searching for new roles at the moment.

Thank you all once again, and Happy New Year to you all and your families.