Detailed Inventory Records / packing list of the container with the carton numbers / barcodes – Where can I get them and how? Can it be tracked back?

[Le Wins]

Hi for everyone and Thanks in advance

So, we have a dispute on Alibaba with one of our suppliers.
- After the negotiation we ordered a full container of solar panels – 26 pallets/cartons with 36 panels in each.
- It is a Trade assurance order.
- Also we ordered a Product inspection service which was been executed. According to the report they opened some cartons for visual and some minor functionality check. They found no issue with the panels.
- The supplier arranged the delivery with a shipping company to Europe and we arranged the delivery with a shipping company to our address.
- The container arrived and has been unloaded
- After opening some cartons we noticed that a part of the panels have some visual defects.
- We reported the issue to the supplier and started the negotiation.

Here is the thing…

Every solar panel has a Barcode. The cartons also haves their specific Barcodes and the list of the panels barcodes which are inside them. We have those Labels and Barcodes archived. We provided photo documentation of the panels, defects and the barcodes of the panels to the supplier but they saying that the panels aren’t theirs.

We have following documents and information currently at our disposal:

Proforma Invoice (INV No. etc.)
Commercial invoice (Order number, HS Code etc.)
Inspection report (Inspection no. etc.)
Bill of Lading/BOL from China to Europe (BOL doc. No., Container number, Seal number etc.)
Trade Assurance Purchase Contract (trade assurance no. etc.)
Delivery note to our address (CMR etc.)
MRN

None of the above mentioned documents have a detailed packing list / inventory records (for example the barcodes of the cartons or the panels)

So far we had similar issues an experiences with disputes and logistic problems so our first question is:

Detailed Inventory Records / packing list of the container with the carton numbers / barcodes – Where can I get them and how? Can it be tracked back?

Thanks for the answers

 

[MOIC]

Welcome to UKBF.

All the documents, Commercial Invoice, Packing List, Bill of Lading, should be with the original shipper as well as the forwarder that cleared your goods.

Without them, they could not have been cleared.

Try both companies, they should have the originals, or at least copies.

Follow it up (forcefully) with Alibaba.

What documents have the inspection company provided? Should have been clear photos, carton markings, place of inspection, as well as a host of other identifying photos linking the products to the supplier.

Are the panels you have on their website(s)?

 

[Le Wins]

Are the panels you have on their website(s)?

Well, yes and no.
Currently the 435W model (which we purchased) is not listed on their webpage, but it was/has to been because the order specification title mentions it.
First we started the negotiation on a LR5-54HTH 425W model, but later the seller offered the more effective 435W model for the same price, so we accepted it.

My guess during the negotiation they specifically tailored for usthis offer which either not appeared publicly on their page or it appeared and they deleted it later. We don’t know how this specifically works on the seller side on Alibaba.

What documents have the inspection company provided? Should have been clear photos, carton markings, place of inspection, as well as a host of other identifying photos linking the products to the supplier.

Just the Inspection report pdf.
Place of inspection – Yes
Inspector name – Yes
Photos – Example photos with... low quality
Carton markings/barcodes – No
One photo contains one piece of barcode from one panel, that is all.

The inspection report mentions that some points of inspection wasn’t applicable/they couldn’t execute because some reasons.
Sadly one of the mentioned reason was “No packing list was provided during this inspection”

Follow it up (forcefully) with Alibaba.

That is the plan. We opened a dispute. That is what you mean?

All the documents, Commercial Invoice, Packing List, Bill of Lading, should be with the original shipper as well as the forwarder that cleared your goods.

Without them, they could not have been cleared.

Try both companies, they should have the originals, or at least copies.

You mean they should have a more detailed description / packaging list of the container with probably at least the carton barcodes?

 

[MOIC]

First we started the negotiation on a LR5-54HTH 425W model, but later the seller offered the more effective 435W model for the same price, so we accepted it.

So, all this is documented.

We don’t know how this specifically works on the seller side on Alibaba.

As long as the pro forma, payment and commercial invoice was to the same company, albeit that your payment went through Alibaba’s Trade Assurance. They all have to be linked to (exactly) the same company on all the correspondence.

Just the Inspection report pdf.
Place of inspection – Yes
Inspector name – Yes
Photos – Example photos with... low quality
Carton markings/barcodes – No
One photo contains one piece of barcode from one panel, that is all.

The inspection report mentions that some points of inspection wasn’t applicable/they couldn’t execute because some reasons.
Sadly one of the mentioned reason was “No packing list was provided during this inspection”

Who were the inspection company? This seems a very brief as well as a poor report.

That is the plan. We opened a dispute. That is what you mean?

Yes, but those that ’scream’, get heard first!

You mean they should have a more detailed description / packaging list of the container with probably at least the carton barcodes?

The Bill of Lading will include ‘Identifying Marks’ on each carton. This will be on every carton and typically be your company initials.

The inspection report should have verified all the documents and identifying marks (with photos).

 

[Le Wins]

So, all this is documented.

A Yes, all the communication between us and the seller took placee through Alibabas message system. The negotiation before and after the order and a part of negotiation related to the defected panels (after we discovered the defects). Then after we opened the dispute we continued our communication purely trough the dispute system.

As long as the pro forma, payment and commercial invoice was to the same company, albeit that your payment went through Alibaba’s Trade Assurance. They all have to be linked to (exactly) the same company on all the correspondence.

A The Proforma Invoice , Document of the payment , Commercial invoice and the Trade Assurance Purchase Contract has the same company on it also the Order number is the same.
Addendum: The Proforma Invoice contains the 425W model but the Commercial Invoice has already the 435W model on it.

Who were the inspection company? This seems a very brief as well as a poor report.

A Bureau Veritas
Maybe it is brief, sadly I can’t determine, maybe I simplified the report to much.
It is 9 pages long, 2 pages text part of the report, 7 pages with 39 low res photos.
I would love to share the report but clearly notes we are not allowed to share publicly. I have no experience with Bureau Veritas neither width foreign quality reports.

"BUREAU VERITAS PROPRIETARY- unpublished work, copyright [2013] Bureau Veritas - DO NOT DISCLOSE OUTSIDE YOUR ORGANISATION WITHOUT BUREAU VERITAS PRIOR WRITTEN CONSENT"

I can provide more information, maybe some parts/clips from the report but I can’t share the full document. I can share the other documents maybe (I have to check the permissions)

Yes, but those that ’scream’, get heard first!

A So you suggest contacting Alibaba directly for advice besides / outside the dispute progress?

The inspection report should have verified all the documents and identifying marks (with photos).

A No identifying marks are mentioned in the report.

The Bill of Lading will include ‘Identifying Marks’ on each carton. This will be on every carton and typically be your company initials.

A
No identifying marks are mentioned on BOL just the model of the panels, the cartons quantity, cubic meter, the total quantity of the panels, total weight, container no. seal no…
I try to include the redacted BOL

https://imgur.com/a/wSz7sg3

 

[Newchodge]

A Yes, all the communication between us and the seller took placee through Alibabas message system. The negotiation before and after the order and a part of negotiation related to the defected panels (after we discovered the defects). Then after we opened the dispute we continued our communication purely trough the dispute system.


A The Proforma Invoice , Document of the payment , Commercial invoice and the Trade Assurance Purchase Contract has the same company on it also the Order number is the same.
Addendum: The Proforma Invoice contains the 425W model but the Commercial Invoice has already the 435W model on it.


A Bureau Veritas
Maybe it is brief, sadly I can’t determine, maybe I simplified the report to much.
It is 9 pages long, 2 pages text part of the report, 7 pages with 39 low res photos.
I would love to share the report but clearly notes we are not allowed to share publicly. I have no experience with Bureau Veritas neither width foreign quality reports.

"BUREAU VERITAS PROPRIETARY- unpublished work, copyright [2013] Bureau Veritas - DO NOT DISCLOSE OUTSIDE YOUR ORGANISATION WITHOUT BUREAU VERITAS PRIOR WRITTEN CONSENT"

I can provide more information, maybe some parts/clips from the report but I can’t share the full document. I can share the other documents maybe (I have to check the permissions)


A So you suggest contacting Alibaba directly for advice besides / outside the dispute progress?


A No identifying marks are mentioned in the report.


A
No identifying marks are mentioned on BOL just the model of the panels, the cartons quantity, cubic meter, the total quantity of the panels, total weight, container no. seal no…
I try to include the redacted BOL

https://imgur.com/a/wSz7sg3

You don't need to keep putting A in your posts. It is clear that you are giving an answer; if that is what it is intended to mean.

 

[MOIC]

A Yes, all the communication between us and the seller took placee through Alibabas message system. The negotiation before and after the order and a part of negotiation related to the defected panels (after we discovered the defects). Then after we opened the dispute we continued our communication purely trough the dispute system.

I can't see how the supplier can wriggle out of this, if everything is documented and it's via Alibaba Trade Assurance.

Some questions:

1. Are you speaking to the same person throughout the order process?
2. How many defects are you claiming for and the value?
3. Was there a warranty/damage clause in the Pro forma?
4. Have you carried out an evaluation on the supplier?
5. Who authorised the inspection company?
6. Have you queried with the inspection company why a 'full inspection' wasn't carried out with full packing details including a Packing List?

Keep following the claim, but get all the information above to support your claim.

 

[Le Wins]

You don't need to keep putting A in your posts. It is clear that you are giving an answer; if that is what it is intended to mean.

I know. It seems the system automatically puts A before the reply if I copy-paste the message from Word to the reply form, I just forget to delete it. Sorry

 

[Le Wins]

1. Are you speaking to the same person throughout the order process?
2. How many defects are you claiming for and the value?
3. Was there a warranty/damage clause in the Pro forma?
4. Have you carried out an evaluation on the supplier?
5. Who authorised the inspection company?
6. Have you queried with the inspection company why a 'full inspection' wasn't carried out with full packing details including a Packing List?

1. It seems to. The style of the sellers messages changed a little thou.
2. 257 panels from 936 totals. All of the 257 have some visual manufacturing defects, and most of these defect influence the performance also (shrouded or cracked cells)
3. Not in proforma Invoice, neither in the commercial invoice just in the Trade Assurance Purchase Contract. But these aren’t damages. They are clearly manufacturing defect, sloppy workmanship.
4. No, not before the order. Just after the problems erected.
Supplier index - Level 3
24 transactions with over 1,200,000 USD total
Verification Type: third-party verification service provider (“Liability Disclaimer - The company information contained in the TrustPass Profile has been provided by Chinadaas., and has not been verified by Alibaba…”)
5. Not us. We just purchased the service through the Alibaba system. We don’t choose Bureau Veritas particularly. It was either arranged by the seller or automatically by the Alibaba I guess.
6. So far we didn’t. We first contact the inspection company through email and ask them for all the photos every documentation they got from the seller.
Anyway the report doesn’t mentions (as I see) why only 5 cartons/pallets were inspected.
The remarks section mentions the missing documentation thou. I include a part of the report.


I contacted both the shipping companies and the inspection company yesterday for more detailed evidence.

Two days ago the dispute system escalated the dispute. Last day the Alibaba dispute contacted trough the system and asked to provide more information and all the evidence we can share. We plan to answer next day.

I can't see how the supplier can wriggle out of this, if everything is documented and it's via Alibaba Trade Assurance.

We got all the mentioned documents. The only concern for me is the fact that these documents doesn’t mentions the cartons identification barcodes.
Yes the documents saying that the seller sent us a full container, 26 cartons of solar panels, but they don’t say that the defected panels came from that container. That is why I would love to acquire the documentation of the container were a detailed packing list with at least the cartons Id barcodes are present. They has to be archived somewhere…

This whole thing is suspicious and the process is frustrating. Maybe I am too worried and I am over concerned.

https://imgur.com/a/LNehSae

 

[MOIC]

1. It seems to. The style of the sellers messages changed a little thou.
2. 257 panels from 936 totals. All of the 257 have some visual manufacturing defects, and most of these defect influence the performance also (shrouded or cracked cells)
3. Not in proforma Invoice, neither in the commercial invoice just in the Trade Assurance Purchase Contract. But these aren’t damages. They are clearly manufacturing defect, sloppy workmanship.
4. No, not before the order. Just after the problems erected.
Supplier index - Level 3
24 transactions with over 1,200,000 USD total
Verification Type: third-party verification service provider (“Liability Disclaimer - The company information contained in the TrustPass Profile has been provided by Chinadaas., and has not been verified by Alibaba…”)
5. Not us. We just purchased the service through the Alibaba system. We don’t choose Bureau Veritas particularly. It was either arranged by the seller or automatically by the Alibaba I guess.
6. So far we didn’t. We first contact the inspection company through email and ask them for all the photos every documentation they got from the seller.
Anyway the report doesn’t mentions (as I see) why only 5 cartons/pallets were inspected.
The remarks section mentions the missing documentation thou. I include a part of the report.


I contacted both the shipping companies and the inspection company yesterday for more detailed evidence.

Two days ago the dispute system escalated the dispute. Last day the Alibaba dispute contacted trough the system and asked to provide more information and all the evidence we can share. We plan to answer next day.




We got all the mentioned documents. The only concern for me is the fact that these documents doesn’t mentions the cartons identification barcodes.
Yes the documents saying that the seller sent us a full container, 26 cartons of solar panels, but they don’t say that the defected panels came from that container. That is why I would love to acquire the documentation of the container were a detailed packing list with at least the cartons Id barcodes are present. They has to be archived somewhere…

This whole thing is suspicious and the process is frustrating. Maybe I am too worried and I am over concerned.

https://imgur.com/a/LNehSae

You don't have any other option apart from going through Alibaba's Trade Assurance dispute process and hope that the supplier has funds in their account that Alibaba can 'seize' to settle the dispute.

For future reference (I know you don't need me to tell you this):

1. Authorise your own inspection team and ask them to carry out specific tests, as well as verifying all the paperwork and carry out container loading supervision.

2. Carry out a full supplier evaluation by an independent company.

3. Don't rely on what's written on an Alibaba supplier's details. Have it verified.

4. Ensure all paperwork is correct and has identifying marks written on the original Bill of Lading.

5. Ensure you include a warranty period as well as a damages process, as has arisen, on the Pro forma, as well as on the Commercial Invoice.

Good luck with the process.

 

[Le Wins]

You don't have any other option apart from going through Alibaba's Trade Assurance dispute process and hope that the supplier has funds in their account that Alibaba can 'seize' to settle the dispute.

Well, we hope too.
Current situation: Alibabas Dispute Mediator asked us some additional questions and to upload every evidence. We did. The supplier doing currently the same.

Another thing:
If the seller doesn’t fill in the specific identifications, barcodes etc. in these documentation, isn’t that some kind of a violation?

 

[Le Wins]

For future reference (I know you don't need me to tell you this):

1. Authorise your own inspection team and ask them to carry out specific tests, as well as verifying all the paperwork and carry out container loading supervision.

2. Carry out a full supplier evaluation by an independent company.

3. Don't rely on what's written on an Alibaba supplier's details. Have it verified.

4. Ensure all paperwork is correct and has identifying marks written on the original Bill of Lading.

5. Ensure you include a warranty period as well as a damages process, as has arisen, on the Pro forma, as well as on the Commercial Invoice.

Good luck with the process.

We learnt our lessons, advices taken. Thank you.

 

[MOIC]

Another thing:
If the seller doesn’t fill in the specific identifications, barcodes etc. in these documentation, isn’t that some kind of a violation?

Did you specifically ask for this to be included on every product, label, documentation and inspection report?

 

[Chan]

Hi for everyone and Thanks in advance

So, we have a dispute on Alibaba with one of our suppliers.
- After the negotiation we ordered a full container of solar panels – 26 pallets/cartons with 36 panels in each.
- It is a Trade assurance order.
- Also we ordered a Product inspection service which was been executed. According to the report they opened some cartons for visual and some minor functionality check. They found no issue with the panels.
- The supplier arranged the delivery with a shipping company to Europe and we arranged the delivery with a shipping company to our address.
- The container arrived and has been unloaded
- After opening some cartons we noticed that a part of the panels have some visual defects.
- We reported the issue to the supplier and started the negotiation.

Here is the thing…

Every solar panel has a Barcode. The cartons also haves their specific Barcodes and the list of the panels barcodes which are inside them. We have those Labels and Barcodes archived. We provided photo documentation of the panels, defects and the barcodes of the panels to the supplier but they saying that the panels aren’t theirs.

We have following documents and information currently at our disposal:

Proforma Invoice (INV No. etc.)
Commercial invoice (Order number, HS Code etc.)
Inspection report (Inspection no. etc.)
Bill of Lading/BOL from China to Europe (BOL doc. No., Container number, Seal number etc.)
Trade Assurance Purchase Contract (trade assurance no. etc.)
Delivery note to our address (CMR etc.)
MRN

None of the above mentioned documents have a detailed packing list / inventory records (for example the barcodes of the cartons or the panels)

So far we had similar issues an experiences with disputes and logistic problems so our first question is:

Detailed Inventory Records / packing list of the container with the carton numbers / barcodes – Where can I get them and how? Can it be tracked back?

Thanks for the answers

You have provided the supplier with the barcode and photos on each damaged panel, but the supplier does not admit that it is his product. I think it is the following possibilities:

1. The defective product is produced by this supplier, but due to the high cost and poor service, it is unlikely that you will place an order with their factory again in the future, so he is not willing to bear the reissue Or liability, so deceive you that it is not their product;

2. The defective product was not produced by the supplier, and the salesman who was in contact with you secretly replaced it with a product from another supplier. He took your money without his boss knowing it. I recommended that you review which account the order was paid for, and whether it is the same as the receiving account of the supplier in the past;

3. Through the cabinet number on BL, you can find out where the cabinet is installed (this will take more time). If the address of the cabinet is not the supplier's company, then he has deceived you;

The above are my suggestions for you to get some evidence, I hope these are helpful to you, I am Gavin from Guangdong Province, China.
@Le Wins